Paula Bennett
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Topic: Paula Bennett
Posted By: kebakat
Subject: Paula Bennett
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 10:19am
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I know this will possibly be controversial but I just wondered what people thought of what Paula bennett has done and the scrapping of the TIA.
My own personal opinion and is no way meant to be offensive is I think what she did is good. Those 2 women receive a hell of alot of benefits and its good to see both sides of the story. I'm also glad the TIA is scrapped. I studied prior to Daniel. Wasn't entitled to a student allowance because my parents had a farm and "earnt too much" even though they were not supporting me at all and I wasn't living at home. Everything went on student loan including living expenses. When I studied last year. Again most of it went on student loan because I couldn't get a student allowance or any assistance and I really don't see why everyone else can't do the same if they can't afford to pay it outright. |
Replies:
Posted By: rachndean
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 10:25am
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I agree with you Stacey. I think that what she did was definitely within acceptable boundaries.
I remember reading the story from the two mums in the herald last weekend, and I got the impression that the government were telling them that they werent allowed to study in a tertiary institution. So I say good on Paula Bennett for setting the story straight! She made a very good point saying that student loans are interest free, and all New Zealanders are entitled to one. |
Posted By: Henna79
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 10:29am
| I agree too. I think she did the right thing they earn more than most people do. |
Posted By: Andriea
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 10:30am
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For me Im not on a benefit, but I definately wouldnt like my income to be announced on national TV.
When I studied I couldnt get a student allowance either and DH was earning not much more than minimum wage, I got a student loan + living costs added to the student loan, in the end I owe close to $100,000 but I do have an excellent qualification with the potential to earn a lot more than that. I think either every student should be able to get TIA or student allowance and that student allowances shouldnt be based on parents income if your independant of them. We hard out struggled when I was studying with 2 kids and our income being around 500 a week. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 10:32am
| If its my own personal income I wouldn't want it on national tv but then if its govt/tax payer money I don't see why that should be "secret" |
Posted By: lemongirl
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 10:36am
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I'm appalled she done.
This benefit is designed to get parents (primarly women) off the benefit and into skilled employment thus lifting themselves and their children out of poverty. Yes I realise being a student is hard and student loans suck (mine is still around 10k) but if we are going to target money, it needs to go to those most in need. Single parents have added expenses like childcare which single don't have. They will find it harder to keep a part-time job while studying due to childcare costs and responsiblities. Not just investing in them but also in their children. Kids whose parents and educated and working are actually far less likely to end up in prison and have better educational outcomes than those who stay on the benefit. Also remember that this is the same allowance that Paula Bennett used when she was coming off the DPB to get further qualifications and a better job for herself. |
Posted By: Snappy
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 10:37am
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Yeah I agree with the student allowance thing, if they manage to finish their degrees or study then they will be in a financial position to be able to pay back their student loan. On the other hand I do agree that we should be encouraging people on the DPB to study and get qualifications.. Scraping the TIA isnt going to stop them, if they want it bad enough they can do it!
I was on the DPB for ONE year and got the TIA, I got the TIA spread out over the year and it was something like $90 a week!!! It was ridiculous. I did use it to pay my aunty to look after Janaya rather than her go to daycare though, being a single mum meant I didnt have a partner to take over while I studied, so there was that aspect of it which I was greatful for. |
Posted By: GuestGuest
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 10:59am
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I think what she did was right in terms of publicly declaring their benefits. It is the tax-payers money that she is declaring, not their own personal income from private employment. Good on her!
ETA: I also think they should get a student loan like everyone else. In fact I just agree with everything Kebakat said in her first post! |
Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:11am
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I have to agree with Stacey, I don't have an issue with her releasing the level of state assistance they get, after all their entire argument is about requiring more assistance so surely understanding what they already receive gives the complete picture?
I also strongly feel that tertiary education is a privilege, not a right. My parents assisted me in my diploma out of high school (lucky I know) and I worked my ass off to get my degree via correspondence whilst working full time both here and while I was living in London. One of them gets over $700 a week in benefits, probably more than some people on here earn in a week in their full time jobs. ETA: Edited to fix my spelling, clearly I got that degree from a weetbix packet! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:11am
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Those women brought it all on themselves, by creating a web page / blog complaining about it in a public forum.
I think what Paula Bennett did was a bit petty, and the kind of behaviour I'd expect from a govt Minister. As for the TIA, I guess the grumble is that they were getting it and now they're not, most NZer's get annoyed when you take their money away from them. Those women earn a lot more than my husband does, and that means I'm not entitled to any assistance of any kind. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">   [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: lemongirl
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:15am
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I still can't believe that people think it's ok that private information is released.
I'll ask you how'd you'd feel if how much your WFF tax credit was realeased. Of if the government started cutting maternity services, you complained and they released details of the medical costs of your pregnancy/labour, or the amount of susbidsed doctor's visits for your child. Hey you choose to get pregnant and have a child, therefore why should we the the taxpayer cough up. Oh that's right it happened to someone else so that's ok. |
Posted By: jazzy
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:15am
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I don't see anything wrong with what she did, & agree they should be entited to apply for a student loan like anyone else.
Like all stories there will be more to this one, like how long they have been on benifits, how many kids they have & what they are studing. Yes the amounts they earn a week makes it hard to do things & study & get of the benifit, BUT there are heaps out there not on benifits that earn that amout & have to do it on there own. |
Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:19am
| Actually lemongirl I'd have no issue at all at people knowing how much I get from WFF because its not MY money. We currently get $18 a week this year, last year it was $139 a fortnight |
Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:25am
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lemongirl, it wouldn't bother me. Anyone can know how much I earn and what taxpayer money I've benefited from in terms of public services, I couldn't care less.
I get pregnant the taxpayer pays, yes. If it was taken away would I go to all the fuss these people have gone to? No, it would either be covered by private medical insurance or I would save before having my children just like you do for anything else that costs money. Medical services and getting extra money on top of a large range of existing benefits is not the best comparison IMO. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:34am
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Actually I applaud Paula .. if you are going to bitch and moan about your situation in a public forum, you kind of bring it on yourself.
I also wouldnt really care who knew how much our WFF or any other government subsidy is. On a side note .. my husband had to take a student loan and "borrow" a living component as we arent entitled to any kind of training allowance (or any other subsidy) .. so if we can do it (and im not earning as im on maternity leave) ... then those women can suck it up and do it too. We have less than 700 a week coming in for four of us (although I have chosen to go on extended maternity leave, so I have acutally saved a nest egg to tide us over). ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year  http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:57am
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Im not sure what those women were doing to earn so much ,but when I was on the DPB I was getting $330 a week ,and paying $260 rent, plus power food and phone, its certainly not as easy as its made out to be , living on the DPB
But its not just solo mothers , its anyone who is getting it, my best friend has arthritis, from her jaws to her feet, very severe, she had her hips replaced at 13, and due to a few reasons , she qualifies for the TIA allowance , she is studying psychology , and she'd be good at it too , im not sure what shes going to do now that its been scrapped . ------------- 
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 12:03pm
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i dont know wether she should have disclosed the info or not... i do think it a bit petty tho that she would have had to go looking for that info and she did go against the privacy act by disclosing personal information without consent... why should she get treated differently than anyone else... if it were me or anyone else trying to get income details that werent ours we would be refused...(case in point i cant even get my dead mothers bank balance)! Paula bennett said she wanted the whole story known but then deliberatley mislead us by only giving the amount they receive, not what for or a breakdown - apparently one of the mothers has sick children so receives money for that which as i imagine would go directly towards medical costs..should she really be penalised for that? Furthermore what now of the fathers of those children? how do they feel? are they now saying "oh she gets heaps from social welfare why should i pay her any more money?"
I think Paula Bennett seems to have forgotten her roots somewhat and wonder what her reaction would have been if her income had been disclosed so publicly?! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 12:03pm
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im now abit confused.
Are we saying only these two women shouldn't be entitled to it ,or all people who who get it,no longer should? (because everyone else did it without ) -------------
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Posted By: sadie
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 12:04pm
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I'm glad someone brought this up as I was thinking about it last night.
I think the two women involved brought it on themselves by talking about it in the first place. The money they get is funded by the taxpayer, so I think we (as taxpayers) have every right to know what they are getting. Sure, they should absolutely be entitled to get a student loan just like everyone else, and to pay that back when they start working. FWIW, we live solely on my husbands wage, and have never been entitled to anything at all from the government. The only exception to that was the 14 weeks PPL i got when we had DS. It bugs the crp out of me to hear stories of someone getting over $700 a week as a handout, when we as a family pay huge amounts of tax to fund it. |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 12:05pm
Bizzy , I totally agree with your whole post  -------------
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Posted By: GuestGuest
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 12:10pm
They key here is that it isn't "private" information, it is "public" information. If you receive money from the govt the public has a right to know about it. It is my money as a taxpayer, it isn't private income. |
lemongirl wrote:Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 12:20pm
by that token tho not everyone should be privvy to that information... certainly other people on a benefit shouldnt as they dont pay taxes! and as i said before is it really necessary for the ex's to know that information? and is some of the money they get from the fathers of those children...? and if so then surely that would be private information? ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: Mamma2N
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 12:27pm
Ah Bizzy, I need not say more as you have clearly articulated exactly what I wanted to say.. 
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Posted By: jazzy
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 12:28pm
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Why should the amounts for benifits be kept hush hush??? The problem is because amounts are not know, people who should get it don't cause they don't know they are entitled to it.
I don't care who know how much WFF we get, its not that much. My husband works damm hard, I am a stay at home mum after being made redundant a year ago, as child care cost to much for 3 kigs. So if you are going to sit on a benifit & get $$$$$, like 700 a week count yourself lucky. |
Posted By: jazzy
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 12:31pm
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lemongirl there is information that should be kept private, but if you collect a standard benifit on tax payers money (my money) then privacy is not an issue. It has nothing to do with health care, so no need to make it into something it is not.
You don't agree with it & it sounds like this hits close to home for you. |
Posted By: GuestGuest
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 1:03pm
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To answer your questions Bizzy as I see it, I think it should be information that is publicly accessible to all and I would hope that at some point in their lives beneficiaries have been tax payers.
Yes, the exes should know that information. There is too much cloak and dagger stuff that goes on with benefits and partners who separate. I can't answer your last point as I don't know how the money has been made up but the fact is they are getting paid a lot! |
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 1:07pm
Actually I disagree...how are the childcare expenses different? They are better as the less you earn the bigger subsidy you get. Only subsidy we got was the 20 free hours! had to pay for the rest. Granted rates have improved, but most of the time we were a few dollars over the top bracket for our region. There are plenty of Mums out there with kids & a household to run that do fit the study in as well as jobs.
Lemongirl, I'm not picking on you by quoting what you said, you just put the most clearly the points I disagreed with. I also found it relatively simple to work out what each Mum was getting from online forms. I can't see why they can't get a student loan. I'm going to need to get one when I want to complete the rest of my study. We earn as much as they do. I will need to find childcare & organise school pickups etc & hope like hell classes don't coincide with that or simply I'll do it via extramural. Then study while bub is asleep or at night when both kids are in bed. Certainly not worth my while to go back to work for the few hours I can & pay childcare & receive diddly squat in my pay packet for me. Also for the Invercargill Mum ...I thought that SIT was free? Also...can I have a flash laptop like the other Mum had???? If you haven't guess..support what she's done, it they hadn't put it out there first then I wouldn't. ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com"> 
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: Snappy
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 1:09pm
i "think" the child support mney goes direct to the government, regardless of whether its $200 a week or $10. |
Posted By: mamanee
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 1:13pm
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As a person on the DPB, I don't want people knowing how much I get each week. Granted it isn't much and I just have enough to survive each week, but it is quite a personal thing!
To the people that harp on about 'tax payers money' and you want to know where it's going, well, the benefit is taxed too and before I was on a benefit I paid tax. Just because you pay tax, doesn't make you a superior being. How does knowing how much a person gets on the DPB affect your personal life? It doesn't. Unless you would like to come around and tell me how to spend my money, or take money off me and keep it for yourself because you think you're hard done by because you pay your taxes. Because sometimes I feel like some people would like to (generalisation, nobody in here). Just because it's government money doesn't mean it becomes your personal business or entitle you to judge somebody. Sure, you can probably find out the average amount a person on the benefit gets, just as you could probably find out on average how much a doctor/teacher/lawyer gets, but at the end of the day, when that money is put into my bank account I feel it is my PRIVATE business, not anybody elses. |
Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 1:19pm
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They did ask for it by putting themselves out there, but PB broke the law to prove a point.
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Posted By: Febgirl
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 1:33pm
I think it's absolutely horrific that their personal incomes were publicly released by a government minister of all people - she acted completely unprofessionally. I agree with NeeandSam, just because someone is on a benefit it doesn't remove their legal right to privacy.  ------------- Two little girls under 2! 
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Posted By: Bombshell
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 1:34pm
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unfortunately the figures are not uncommon for DPB and all the topups added onto them now - i know of too many...let alone those getting huge disabilities from winz for their kids with asthma etc on top, and other top ups....i see beneficiaries every day and $600 plus is not uncommon! I dont agree with it tho...
disclsure..i think it had to be done where the women were relying on a "woe is me" situation....the truth simply came out! Frankly i would love someone to pay me $500 - $700 a week to stay home with my child! laptops....have seen this also - total handout!!!....and none of the people i knew of used the course or *free* computer to get into a job....some have done 3-4 courses...nursing is just the "latest" one...from seeing how many people are on the course in past 12 months...and u may not want them nursing u at the end of the day i can assure u! they should make teh courses repayable if not employed within 12 months of finish or not completed! sorry for shortness of type - and if comes across wrong - still one handed!
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Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 1:39pm
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Funny how it is okay to break the law when its to embarrass a couple of 'whining, freeloading beneficiaries'
She should have asked the women to table their budgets before saying anything else. The women who was receiving $715 per week had 2 very sick kids so I bet alot of her DPB went on medical costs. In saying that though, they are receiving quite abit of money, and should have to budget in study just like everyone else. -------------
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Posted By: kiwisj
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 1:41pm
I disagree. The information you can look up on the website to see what you're entitled to is public information. The dollar amount that goes into your bank account is private. I don't know enough about the TIA to have a real opinion on whether they should reinstate it, but regardless of my feelings re benefits etc those women have a right to publicly criticise the government - we live in a democracy (or you do in NZ). Just because they stated their case (in their eyes) in public does NOT entitle PB to break the law and flout privacy rules. It's too easy for this to turn into "beneficiaries get such a good deal, they should shut up and be grateful." That's not what this is about - Paula Bennett was wrong to release that information. Disclaimer - I am not a beneficiary and I have a massive student loan of my own. I just think we have privacy laws for a reason. And elected MPs should be bound by them too. ------------- SJ Callum - Dec 2008 Daniel - Oct 2010 |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 1:43pm
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I haven't read all the replies but I think two things about it.
Firstly she should not have disclosed what they get, it's not fair on them, it's an invasion of their privacy and quite frankly is just down right wrong. Secondly, I do actually think that single mums should have to get student loans to cover study and pay it back. I'm studying but I get nothing cos my husband is loaded (which quite frankly is news to me and him) so I've been forced to take out a loan cos we cant' pay for it up front, cos we aren't actually loaded!. People who take time out of the workforce to raise children, whether male, female, single or married in most cases benefit from either training or upskilling to return to the workforce and I don't see why a single mum should get any more help than the rest of us, or we should all get that kind of assistance regardless or what our partners earn. And one last thing, I don't blame the women for claiming what they claim, if I could get assistance and incentives I would and I expect so would mostly everyone else. Erm I had the disability allowance for Spencer and it wasn't a fortune, it was $42 a week, I take him to two different private doctors and have to pay for specialised formula and other foods, it didn't even cover the cost of that and if he had something worse and needed asthma pumps or epi pens or insulin etc then it wouldn't even come close to covering the cost of it. In actual face the disability allowance is a joke for those parents with a child who is seriously disabled. ------------- 
 
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Posted By: mamanee
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 1:45pm
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Oh I totally agree with that case, in that people do take advantage of the system and milk it for every cent they can get and that isn't right, as plenty of us out there are thrust into this situation and don't want to be reliant on the government forever.
If I had done things the other way around and made sure I had qualifications and a career in which I could earn more than my benefit, then I would totally go out and do it, or if my situation were different and I knew I could survive on a wage, while paying rent, power, phone, childcare and all the rest on my own, I would do it! I also always assumed that if I wanted to study, I would have to get a student loan and pay it back, infact I have been looking into it fully expecting to pay back my course costs. Free laptop?! |
Posted By: Parki
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 1:53pm
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I think how much they get is beside the point.
Public money should equal public knowledge. Edited to add: I think they are both doing quite well financially to be honest! They are given a lot more than some people I know earn, who work 40 hour weeks and not eligable to assistance for training or anything else for that matter. |
Posted By: mamanee
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 1:56pm
What I want to know is, WHY do you want to know this information, WHAT you could possibly do with this information that would benefit your own life and do you not have better things to do with your time and energy? Do you feel that all our information should be privy to you, which parts can I keep to myself? Where do you draw the line? Would you like to know exactly what I am doing with your tax money? Or do you just need to know how much of it I'm getting? Would you like my ex to know how much I'm getting? He's an abusive sociopath who could use that information for his dastardly plans to bring me down. Would you like to see my payslips and bank statements from the last 9 years to have an accurate picture of how much tax I've paid and how much government money I've received? I just don't understand how this information would even be relevant or interesting to you. In short, how much I get on the benefit makes absolutely no difference to your every day life. |
Posted By: Febgirl
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:09pm
I don't believe individual benefits received counts as 'public money' in this context. Money spent on state services, public infrastructure, elected officials salaries, yes. Put it this way, do you also agree that you should have a right to know exactly how much your child's teacher is earning, or your local police officer - that would also be 'public money' under this definition. ------------- Two little girls under 2!
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Posted By: GuestGuest
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:15pm
Yes I do, but I have no interest in knowing. If they came out in the media making trouble and complaining that they didn't earn enough then yes I think that information should be made available to the public. It is all about transparency of the public purse. |
Posted By: Peanut
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:21pm
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neeandsam - I am not sure that this is being directed at you but I can fully understand why you would feel like it is and hence can understand your reaction above... but then you are in a different situation to the woman we are discussing in that you are getting on with your life and not moaning and going public with your plight in a "woe is me" situation. So yes your info should be private but in the situation with these woman they have chosen to make aspects of their lives public and therefore I personally believe that the public has the right to know the fully situation.
I can't understand why they shouldn't have to get a loan. much like everyone else has too - I want a journalist to ask them that question and see what their response to that it as haven't heard that question being asked. I think unfortunately with Paul Bennett realeasing the info the actually core problem is not being addressed, just the privacy issue when I would like to hear some responses on the core issue. -------------  
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:23pm
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ah see now we are all jumping to conclusions... we are assuming that she got a laptop for free, not that she might have saved and budgeted... or is that not something that beneficiaries do?! ( )
i dont know anything about the TIA but do know that being able to question our government without recriminations and being treated fairly and equally were two things i thought we could do as a nation. Its not an us and them thing going on... there are many entitlements out there - childcare, accomodation, funeral grants, student loans, tax rebates, WFF, Parental tax credit, paid maternity leave etc... at some stage in our lives we might have to take advantage of one or some of these...so how would you feel if you were told you couldnt and when you questioned why your income was broadcast to the whole country? oh and as an aside - must say renee i have never seen you so eloquent before ! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: kiwisj
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:25pm
I agree with you Peanut, that's why I think it's a shame Paula Bennett released the info because now the issue has become "privacy" rather than the TIA. I'm not sure why they can't get loans either - especially when one of the justifications for having student loans (vs free tertiary education) is that people will be able to pay them off because they will go into well-paying jobs. But as I said before, I'm not sure of the ins and outs of the TIA and whether it's additional to current benefits and whether there are any strings attached. ------------- SJ Callum - Dec 2008 Daniel - Oct 2010 |
Posted By: jazzy
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:25pm
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I am not really interested how much people get on benifits, BUT when it is thrown in my face I will have my say. I would love to get $700 a week for staying home, but I don't. I don't get money when my kids are sick & have on going issues, my DH is studing & working full time, & we pay for it all ourselves & will keep paying.
Benifits are always going to be a hot topic. |
Posted By: Parki
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:27pm
I don't believe individual benefits received counts as 'public money' in this context. /QUOTE] Well, it is 'public money' in this case. It is money generated by the tax payer (The public) and paid by the Government. It is not money they have 'earnt' personally. At the end of that day, these two woman drew public attention to the situation initially and as Paula Bennet said she wanted to make sure everyone knew the facts and that it was a rounded out arguement which I totally agree with! It is easy to sit there and complain that they are not receiving enough benefits and get the sympathy vote etc when everyone thinks they are on a possibly minimal benefit, but I think it sheds a new and more realistic light on the situation now that people can see just how much some people actually get on while on the benefit. If I was in the position where I was getting a benefit I would have no issue having it public knowledge. They inform the public how much funding goes into everything else in NZ, why is this different? |
Posted By: Parki
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:30pm
100% agreed. |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:32pm
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but parki they werent just complaining for them but everyone who will be affected by the TIA changes... and i dont know if they did say oh woe is me! more like bugger, thats put a spanner in the works!
Paula Bennett made it personal, those two women werent personally attacking anyone but rather questioning the changes to the TIA. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: Febgirl
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:36pm
Because as I understand it (although I could be wrong) there are privacy laws preventing this sort of information being made public without the express permission of the person in question. By breaking the law, the minister is playing dirty to make a point - and that's the issue I have with this whole thing. ------------- Two little girls under 2!
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Posted By: Parki
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:37pm
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Bizzy - But by making it public they have opened themsleves up for things like this to happen.
There are many things I'm sure we all complain about, but you don't make it public without expecting some sort of backlash. I fully agree with Paula Bennet has done. She has stated facts so that NZ has a full picture and can therefore draw a fair conclusion and there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. As above Febgirl - If there is in fact a privacy law that has been breached then that is an issue but as far as I knew there hadn't been? (Could be wrong) |
Posted By: kiwisj
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:38pm
OK but what if they were complaining about some other area of goverment spending. Would that mean you're happy to have your income announced to the public? Paula Bennett says she wanted the argument to be more rounded. Perhaps. But the cynic in me reckons she knew EXACTLY what the public response would be to these women getting a decent chunk of money each week from a benefit. Everyone is outraged and wonders why they get so much for "doing nothing" when we all work so hard and don't get a handout. And in amongst those feelings, the actual "argument" has been lost and we don't know any more about why the TIA has been cut or why it perhaps shouldn't be. ------------- SJ Callum - Dec 2008 Daniel - Oct 2010 |
Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:39pm
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i havent read all the replies but IMO if you are going to go public about something you should expect your background/circumstances to be dug into. I havent really followed it all but i think those details should have been released.
SIT is free on some courses but is only a polytech and everyone should be entitled to a student loan to pay back. Heaps of people move here or distance learn through SIT. Education isnt a right you work for it and i believe entry requirements should be the same for everyone regardless of age, circumstance or race. I dont agree with how student allowances are worked out on parents or partners income and living costs that you pay back are also a crock it doesnt matter if you have kids or not if you chose to study money is going to be tight. If students can get by on $150 a week to pay for EVERYTHING then surely she can budget on $700 a week or maybe wait until the kids start school to study. The whole family benefits system is a crock as well im better off not working and collecting $214 a fortnight than going to work and paying childcare and getting nothing because it works out the same amount. Sorry off topic i think but how stupid is that!! With the childcare subsidy we could get (worked out online) we can only afford to put josh in daycare if i dont work and if i do work and dont qualify for a subsidy it would be about half of my wage! Also my auntie and uncle separated and my cousin is staying with her dad who earns massive amounts a year but my auntie still has to pay child support even tho she is on the bones of her ass and can barely afford to put food on the table. The whole benefits systems need to be review -------------   
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Posted By: kiwisj
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:41pm
My understanding is the same Febgirl. Staff at WINZ/IRD aren't allowed to give that sort of info out to anyone other than the beneficiary. If an MP can make benefit info public then what's stopping them making other information public when they need to "round out an argument." ------------- SJ Callum - Dec 2008 Daniel - Oct 2010 |
Posted By: jazzy
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 2:53pm
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I came across this before
Wednesday, 29 July 2009 - 4:06am NZPA political reporters Wellington, July 29 NZPA - Social Development Minister Paula Bennett says she's ready to talk to two solo mothers at the centre of a privacy row but she isn't going to apologise for releasing details of their welfare payments. Labour has complained to Privacy Commissioner Marie Schroff about Ms Bennett's action, which was in response to the women publicly criticising the Government's decision to scrap the training incentive allowance (TIA). Ms Bennett revealed that Natasha Fuller was receiving $715 a week and Jennifer Johnston $554 a week. Ms Fuller says that without the TIA's $28 a week she won't be able to finish courses and get a job. I am sure she could find $28 a week to finish her training. We have to give up things all the time to get something we want. |
Posted By: surfergirl
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 3:33pm
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I totally disagree. I do NOT think that if I complain about something (anything!) it gives someone in a position of power and knowledge (Paula Bennett) any right to disclose information about me or my finances. For example, I could say (but I'm not) that I pay good taxes and I'm unhappy with the state funded services I've recieved during my pregnancy. This does not give anyone the right to access my IRD records, discover how much tax I paid and then release to the media..."Surfergirl cannot complain, she only paid $xxx.xx in taxes and her care has cost $yyy.yy - she should have had a better paying job or paid more tax if she wants to complain" As far as I'm concerned I know little about the 'issue' (TIA) BUT I do think this is a gross misuse of power and knowledge. I am not impressed! I (apparently) live in a democratic society and removing peoples right to protest/complain/disagree because of the threat of disclosure is terrible and quite frankly horrifiying. If this was happeneing somewhere else our government would have somethign to say about it. ------------- http://www.alterna-tickers.com"> 
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Posted By: jazzy
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 3:46pm
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Did the women in question state their income at any stage????
If they did then there is not a problem, however if they did not & the information was got by making phone calls etc, then that is different. I think there are two issues here -privacy -benifits If my family's income was made public knowledge due to my complaining about something then I would hold my head high as it was earnt by hard work & going without when needed. So maybe the issue is pride. If these women are doing the traing to better their lives & their kids then they should be proud of that. Or is there more to this?????? |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 3:53pm
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surfergirl you live in New Zealand, where if you stick your head up and complain someone is bound to come along and chop it off, sad but that's the tall poppy culture we live in.
NZ hasn't been a true democracy for some time. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: lizzle
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 5:18pm
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i think it sucks that if you complain about something that the government is doing that you don't agree with, thyat your private information is released.
kinda like if i complained about the money being wasted in education and then my salary amount was released. what ever happened to freedom of speech? i don't think that this is about benefits at all, it's about the government playing "dirty" trying to discredit people who don't agree with them. |
Posted By: rachndean
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 5:20pm
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I really think it is a case of equal rights. It shouldnt come down to whether or not you are on a benefit to be entitled to more allowances to assist in study, it should be income tested no matter who you are.
I also think it is unfair that PB is being slammed as much as she is for fighting back, because from what I read and the interviews I saw BEFORE the information was released she was personally attacked for being a hipocrate because of her background. I personally am grateful for every bit of assistance the government offers to try and make everyones lives easier, so if they chose to take something away because our country is fighting recession and trying to save money, who am I to publicly strongly disagree? Once again, firm believer in equal rights!!
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Posted By: Candkids
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 5:26pm
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i havnt read all the posts,
but when i was on the DPB i got a student loan, i didnt get the loan for living costs or student allowance but i still got a student loan to pay my fees i didnt even know about the TIA until my case manager asked how i was paying my tuition & then she told me about it. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">  DD 10.5yrs DS 6yrs DS 11mths 5 little angles watching from above |
Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 5:39pm
Her income was publicly disclosed when she got into office .. it was a "rags to riches" story .. also all government mps salaries are public knowledge (and are usually released on the news each year at pay review time) (just a random side note lol) Also *i think* on close up last night one of the women said she didnt get a loan because she wasnt able to borrow the living allowance part and her expenses increased while studying, although I could be wrong as the item didnt interest me enough to pay too much attention to it. ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: fattartsrock
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 9:56pm
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When you go into bat against "The Man", you do need to be prepared for your skeletons to come falling out of your closet, be that wages, dark secrets etc.
It might not be right, it might not be fair, but it is what happens. I think neither of them were prepared for that. I think the point could be that $28 is sweet fanny adams, really, and you can't tell me that there isn't 2 hours in the week she could even clean someones house to make that? IMHO if she is going to throw her entire future away over $28 a week, then she has no blimmin gumption to get off her backside and have a "hand up" in the first place. I am refering to Ms $700, who has not come across well in the media well at ALL. The other lady seems quite nice and very genuine. In fact, she is a regualr poster on TMMB and a very nice lady by all accounts and would probaly make a great nurse. The reality of the student loans and allowances payments is that you need to support yourself in some other way, as you do not get enough money to live otherwise. ------------- The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P |
Posted By: BuzzyBee
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:07pm
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Blah blah blah
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Posted By: BuzzyBee
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:24pm
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Posted By: BuzzyBee
Date Posted: 29 July 2009 at 11:43pm
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Posted By: Tastic
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 12:01am
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I know a few people on a dpb and none of them get over $400 per week, so Id like to know how these two lady's manage to get so much! and my mate only gets a little over $330 pw with 3 children and she still manages to budget and save for things she needs - studying is one of them!
those two lady's get more then we do in the hand, and that includes aidans disability allowance and wff! you shouldn't judge people by everything your hear or read. everyone has different circumstances and different reasons for having different things |
Posted By: NovemberMum
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 12:36am
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wow $330 a week I don't know how someone would manage on that thats a little under what our mortgage repayments are.
I also don't think $550 is a lot either especially with 3 children I had a look on trademe at rentals in Hamilton and even a 2 bedroom house you are looking at around $250 a week then there is food phone power and I would have to say bye bye to broadband as I would probably only be able to afford dial up at $9.95 a month with 1 phone line I am fortunate that my husband earns a fairly decent salary would be nice if it was more .but I tell you what give me his income over these ladies any day. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: james
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 7:10am
tottaly agree ------------- <a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://b4.lilypie.com/nLJ5p13.png" alt="Lilypie 4th Birthday Ticker" border="0" /></a> |
Posted By: james
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 8:24am
 ------------- <a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://b4.lilypie.com/nLJ5p13.png" alt="Lilypie 4th Birthday Ticker" border="0" /></a> |
Posted By: mamanee
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 8:38am
 For BuzzyBee
It's bloody hard work being on the DPB and although we don't have the added medical costs in our household, we are the same in that I get the bare minimum of payments each week, have barely enough to survive and am raising a two year old boy on my own which is a 24/7 job! I have to pay $250 a week rent by myself, phone, power, internet, groceries, which barely leaves me $20 a week to myself which usually gets used for more groceries towards the end of the week. I didn't ask or choose to be in this situation. My partner asked me to leave when Sam was four months old and to be honest being on the DPB and just surviving each week is much better than receiving disconnection notices for your gas/power/phone every few days and threatened eviction because your idiot partner doesn't think it necessary to pay bills. |
Posted By: BeLoved
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 8:58am
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james wrote
"well said buzzy bee yep im nother one of those people relly people give us single mums a brake its not like we walked into this on purpose and its not easy rasing child on your own. how many post do we get on here about "how will i cope while my hubby is away" haha relly people" After reading through most of the replies on here I don't think anyone is trying to put all solo mums into a box but rather saying that these 2 ladies in particular have kind of asked for there "private" business to be put out there, that is just what happens when you take anything to the media. Yes solo mums do get put into a box sometimes but in reality I think we all know that being a parent is hard work, and doing it on your own is even harder, but lets not get personal and petty. Making a snarky comment about coping while DH's are away is below the belt, I cannot help that I am in a stable relationship and that I am going to miss my DH while he is away, and I would never expect that here on OhBaby I would be criticised for asking for suggestions as to how to cope, doing it on your own is hard work no matter what the circumstances. I also think its fair to point out that just because you have a partner and an income does not mean that things are always easier, and it is just as common for those of us who are not on the DPB or likewise to be put into the bracket of "having it easy" but this so often not the case, we all have things we have to deal with that we would rather not. This whole thing just goes to prove one thing "Money IS the root of all evil" and brings out the worst in people. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com"> 
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Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 9:10am
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I don't think anyone was criticising mums on the DPB, I certainly wasn't and to be honest the more I thought about it overnight I decided that I'm not sure that I do actually agree with what she did. She probably would have been better off saying, a typical woman in this situation would get x amount.
And I hate to say it but I don't think you can ever get away from the taxpayer thinking that they "support" beneficiaries, right or wrong it is a fairly ingrained mentality (but of course who knows when the taxpayer might need help themselves). BuzzyBee, neeandsam & James, from what I've seen from you all in my time here you are great mums, with very happy little boys and you're all doing a fantastic job managing the situations you are in, I'm sure there was no intention from anyone to criticise or offend you and I apologise if any of my comments did. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 9:20am
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I guess the issue at this current time with what these women are complaining about.
Is that there are a lot of families working and earning a lot less than these women are getting, and not getting any assistance from the govt. Its not about being a taxpayer, its about working damn hard to support your family and getting a lot less than these women and having to manage without a benefit. I think some people find it a bit rich that they're complaining about $28 a week, when they are financially better off than a lot of others. Not all solo mum's are on the benefit, so why should these women who are get special treatment? ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: james
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 9:25am
Of coruse it is personal it became personal before i even join this thread. It seem to me that many people were judging way before i came on here and if you feel hard done by then take a walk in a solo mum or dad shoes ------------- <a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://b4.lilypie.com/nLJ5p13.png" alt="Lilypie 4th Birthday Ticker" border="0" /></a> |
Posted By: GuestGuest
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 9:38am
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I agree with HeidisMum, It seems like a few people are being overly defensive when I don't think anyone here has personally criticised anyone else. The discussion has been around Paula Bennett and the two women, not about ourselves.
It seems people are reading things into comments that aren't actually there. If you think people seem superior or are judging you then I think that is more of a self esteem issue than anything. We're all different, come from different places, are in different family and financial situations, that's what makes a good debate, let's not make it personal! |
Posted By: Peanut
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 9:44am
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james, I personally think your comments are uncalled for. At no point in this discussion has anyone personally attacked solo mums on this site (there may have been implied things or things that can be taken personally, as there is in any thread!). Anyone has the right to complain about their situation on here, at no point is anyone saying there situation is better or worse than the next persons. I personally struggle at the moment when my partner is away as I am not use to doing it alone. I have full respect to solo mums who do it on their own 24/7 but still expect respect from them for the job that I do with my child. -------------
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Posted By: Snappy
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 9:50am
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I thought we were all just talking about these 2 particular women?
*ducks for cover* |
Posted By: BuzzyBee
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 9:51am
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LittleSal I was referring to comments on earlier pages where people were stating that since they are taxpayers, they think they are entitled to finding out personal information of those who receive benefits etc. When I was a taxpayer I never once stopped to think about or query where my taxes were going, but that it was in capable hands and the govt. has its notions in place to delegate the money where needed/required, and it was going to those who probably needed it more than me.
And that wasn't what my post was based on, I was merely trying to put things into perspective, people are making preconceived misconceptions based on the information that Paula has released, not every solo mum on DPB earns those particular amounts
Comments along the lines of 'wish I could sit at home and be paid $500' etc etc go to suggest people think that $550 and $750 are the norm. |
Posted By: james
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 9:55am
But it has been attacking solo mums weather it was the two that came out or anyone on here this is real life and people will take things personly. As you took my comment personaly yet i never named you ------------- <a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://b4.lilypie.com/nLJ5p13.png" alt="Lilypie 4th Birthday Ticker" border="0" /></a> |
Posted By: BuzzyBee
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 9:56am
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Fully agreeing with you all, we are talking about these 2 ladies being profiled and that Paula Bennett has overstepped the line IMHO.
I may have gone a bit too indepth with my above posts and given my personal situation as an example, but I'm trying to make a point that before you go judging these ladies on 'their income' they are clearly being given benefits that the govt. has calculated to specifically meet their needs, not necessarily the amount every beneficiary gets. |
Posted By: mamanee
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 10:09am
These were the comments I was relating to also, I don't usually get offended but it sort of gets my back up when people harp on about 'my money and my tax money and I pay taxes'. Good for you! It still doesn't give you any more rights than the rest of us when it comes to privacy. and it's not a self-esteem issue on my side of the fence, as I have great self esteem, and being on a benefit doesn't bring that down like some might assume. And yes being a mum is bloody hard whether you're on your own or you have a husband, and I apologise to anybody that I have offended because that wasn't my intention but like James said, you try walking in the shoes of a solo parent, it's hard enough without feeling we owe you our soul because you indirectly put the food on our table! |
Posted By: lisa85
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 10:13am
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I ain't touching this with an 80ft pole lol -------------  
TTC #3 since Jan 2010 - PCOS MC April 2010 |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 10:13am
Me 2 ! ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 10:17am
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It was always going to end this way..... ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: lisa85
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 10:25am
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Haha I only just came across this one and after reading the first page I totally agree summerlamb. I think we all just need to back away slowly....... -------------
TTC #3 since Jan 2010 - PCOS MC April 2010 |
Posted By: CuriousG
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 10:33am
Me neither. I have some strong views but I think this time Ill keep them to myself. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Natalie_G
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 10:36am
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So much to read.
I do feel sorry for solo mums whose partners have left them. I unfortunately have known many solo mums who have abused the system and kept having children just so they can stay on the DPB. All I have to say is these ladies went to the media with half of the story and Paula Bennett set the facts straight. One of the ladies came back and said she did not mind the information being released. I am also studying and have a student loan of over $6k thats the only way I can study I don't know why these ladies can't study like the majority of the students and get a student loan and they can also study at home and still be with their children. There is lots of help out there for everyone even working families (WFF). Edited to remove DPB content as it was off topic. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: Parki
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 10:40am
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So.......... Back to the ORIGINAL point of the topic......
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Posted By: lemongirl
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 10:45am
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I think that one of the things about these sort of arguements that gets people riled up is while some people might thing they are only talking about *those* women other people think well I'm one of *those* women and feel that the attacks on them are attacks on me.
Since the personal is political I'm going to leave this debate with three anecdotes: 1. A friend of mine from school had her baby a few months after bursary. She took that year off, then went onto uni to earn her law degree. She clerked at the high court and is now studying at cambridge for her masters. She had some time on the benefit and the TIA. 2. Another guy I met at varsity was born with major fetal amomalities. Wasn't expected to live, but was on the invalids and TIA benefit during varsity. Said the proudest day of his life was when he was able to go into WINZ and say 'I don't need the benefit anymore I have a job' 3. JK Rowling is the world's most famous 'dpb' mum. If you have time, read her graduation to speech to harvard students on the benefits of http://harvardmagazine.com/commencement/the-fringe-benefits-failure-the-importance-imagination - failure : "failure in life is inevitable. It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might as well not have lived at all – in which case, you fail by default." This benefit is there to help get people back on their feet after a life disaster. A marriage breakdown, an unplanned pregnancy, a fetal abormality. It gives people a chance to get back on their feet after a set back and go on to bigger and better things. Yes they do 'pay' it back through higher taxes on their salary once they start earning more. I'd like to think we still live in a society where one life mistake consigns a person and their children to a lifetime of poverty. |
Posted By: jazzy
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 11:23am
I am a good mother. Post edit done because I am fed up with the way this topic has gone. |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 11:31am
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jazzy she wasnt attacking you... merely responding to your comment... remember you cant hear a tone of voice... she is merely saying she doesnt know what you do (you could be a working mum, a day care mum, any type) but knows what she does...
that aside i found it interesting that john key is backing paula all the way and on the breakfast show the young gun (who PB used to be before beign promoted) for national pretty much just echoed what john key had said... and regardless of wether taxpayer funded benefits should be made public the privacy act was certainly breached by several parties. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: jazzy
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 11:32am
| Post edit done because I am fed up with the way this topic has gone. |
Posted By: BuzzyBee
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 11:33am
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Lol and this was why I was just about to edit and delete my posts.
Reading too much into it darling, I was simply saying that I do not 'sit around on the benefit' like you have stated/implied, I'm a mother just like the rest of you and I'm on my feet all day. I don't doubt you as a mother, but I haveto question where you get the idea that we 'sit around and just rake the money in' |
Posted By: BuzzyBee
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 11:37am
| Now who is taking comments too personally, I know nothing about your situation or what kind of mother you are, and to be quite frank I don't give a rats bum, it doesn't have any bearing on me in the slightest. It was a matter of speech, and as Bizzy said I was only responding to a comment you had originally made. |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 11:37am
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buzzybee please dont edit or delete your comments.. then nothing will make sense LOL! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: BuzzyBee
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 11:54am
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Right this is my last post, I've deleted what I was originally going to say because it's not going to get us anywhere.
If you choose to read too much into my posts and get in a huff, then its your own problem. My intentions were not to personally attack or upset anyone so I'm sorry you feel that way. |
Posted By: pepsi
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 12:12pm
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'sup ladies!
To summarise. Majority of solo mums = Awesome (I was raised by one..and I in turn, am awesome). A rare few = Dodgy and cheating the system (Not referring to the 2 women). Knowing people's income, DHB or otherwise = not so nice when it's you. These 2 specific women = Unfortunate, but it's done now. |
Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 12:16pm
Fantastically well put! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: kiwisj
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 12:20pm
Hear hear.
Jeepers, this is a different thread to the one I read before I went to bed last night ------------- SJ Callum - Dec 2008 Daniel - Oct 2010 |
Posted By: jazzy
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 12:22pm
Funny thing if my DH left me I would be better off for money on a benifit. But if he did, I would be better off getting a job, & maintance, & child care sub. I had no intention of making a personal issue to anyone on OB & did not, I just joined in a discussion, that was already started. You however did, you took it personal, & made it nasty. |
Posted By: BuzzyBee
Date Posted: 30 July 2009 at 12:23pm
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You are awesome Pepsi
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