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skiltz View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 November 2014 at 1:13pm
OHbaby! Coffee Catchup - Howick - 24th November. Feel free to ask questions and Dorothy will reply when she can.

Don’t forget to use the code BABY14 to get $10 off your Countdown online shop when you spend over $100, and be in the draw to win a fantastic Countdown hamper worth $100”

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juls View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2014 at 11:47am
Hi Dorothy,
I have a 16 week old who naps for 15-20 mins. If I can I use your cupping / patting settling to try to get him back to sleep but it's very difficult in the cot. If I'm successful I struggle to put him down.
He also doesn't feed very well as he's so tired he falls asleep whilst nursing - which is generally how he goes down at bed time. He wakes twice at night which were quite happy with as at one stage he was up every 2 hours! Do you have any tips on encouraging bigger feeds and longer naps. Is he too old to hold in arms for 1.5 hours? We tend to need to jiggle, sway and pat now - it's quite a dance! Needless to say my back is not happy!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shell87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2014 at 1:10pm
Hi Dorothy

My 8 month old wakes every 2 hours from midnight. I usually feed him the first time then resettle him the rest. He will go back to sleep but will wake again an hour later very alert and wanting to play. Do I just persist with resettling each time and should I cut out the midnight feed straight away or slowly eliminate it. Thanks

Edited by Shell87 - 25 November 2014 at 1:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DorothyW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2014 at 1:15pm
Hi Juls
It is difficult to help a baby self settle and resettle as they grow but imagine if your baby was a lot older.   As he is waking at 15 to 20 minutes I wonder whether he is having digestive issues.   Try Dorothy's Drops (you can purchase from my website) or Colic Calm but have similar ingredients except the Dorothy's Drops aren't black so therefore the babies clothes are getting stained.

I would suggest taking a minimum of ten days and spend the time settling in arms and resettling in arms. This will give you the opportunity to understand his sleep habits and therefore when you go to do it in the cot you are more aware of what and how he is sleeping.

Cots don't jiggle, sway and pat so unfortunately this is what he is looking for when he goes into his cot. taking the time to do the settling and resettling in arms with slight movement will help you a lot more to settle and resettle in the cot.   YOu need to have a good supportive chair to do the 10 days or more in your arms

To encourage bigger feeds he needs to sleep well as sleep and food are two nutrients and without one the other tends to fall away. So once he leaves to sleep better he will feed better as he will have more engery. Ideally at 16 weeks his wake times are 1 1/2 hours and he is napping for a minimum of 1 1/2 hours. IF he wakes before this then I would suggest taking the time to resettle. If you cannot resettle then start the next wake cycle and feed.   Also before putting him down for a nap then I would suggest feeding 15 minutes before the feed - this does not create a feed sleep association unless you choose to but ensures his tummy is full before going down for a nap. The gastric emptying of a breast fed baby after 120 minutes is 16 to 18%. I encourage to feed, sleeping bag (swaddle) then sleep - FSS
Dorothy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote juls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2014 at 2:05pm
Thanks Dorothy, he is currently taking Losec which seems to have helped - we didn't want to medicate but had been to the osteopath and it improved for awhile. I'll give the drops a go. Do you recommend that he stays in my arms for the nap or I attempt to move him to the cot?

You mentioned consistency yesterday, We've been so fixated on sleep we've just enrolled in several activities should these go on hold. And should we be resettling the same way at night?

Thanks so much for your help!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Francess165424 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2014 at 2:19pm
Hi Dorothy, my 7.5 month old was doing well going to bed but now the only way I can get her to sleep is to feed her or rock in arms for a long time. If she used to cry I could usually settle her by putting in dummy, singing, shhing or rubbing head but now nothing works and she will cry quite hysterically until half and hr when I get her up. If I manage to get her down happy and awake it doesn't last long. Also hard to put down asleep as if she stirs and realises she's being put in bed cries again. Any suggestions welcome. Eating well and happy when she wakes etc. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nadia86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2014 at 2:38pm
Hi Dorothy,
Thank you for yesterday, I enjoyed hearing your tips and point of view. I particularly appreciated the advice about giving a top up after the play time and before sleep, that has worked great today so far.
Our son is 10 weeks old and has colic, the afternoons are the worst, he arches his back and stretches out his legs and just looks in pain. When this happens I put him on the breast and he calms down a bit as it must be a comfort to him, however we have also basically completely moved him to formula as I am going back to work after Xmas. Was it a silly idea to move him to formula when he has colic as would it be causing him even more tummy pain? I have also found that my supply has definitely decreased as I am not getting that full feeling very much - will being b put on the breast still be a comfort to him when he isn't getting much out of me?
Also, is there a way to sleep train him when he has colic or do you recommend waiting until he has outgrown it?
Thanks
Nadia
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AudreyCoulte139610 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2014 at 9:28pm
Hi Dorothy,
Thank you for the opportunity to get your insights.
My boy is 5.5 mths, and he is a one cycle day napper, 45-60 mins, (sometimes 1.5hr but only if he's in the pram or car) He usually wakes crying and seems wide awake, how long should I take to try to resettle? Also do you recommend a 2hr wake time, and he'll be ready for bed again?
Thanks again,
Audrey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kerrie152896 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2014 at 2:28pm
Hi Dorothy,
It was great to hear you speak the other day. I have taken some great tips away from the session. One thing I do need help with is my sons comfort feeding or wanting to be fed to sleep.
He is 8 weeks old but was born 4 weeks early. In the first week he was unable to breastfeed and we were feeding him through supply lines etc. As soon as he was strong enough to feed I basically was told to feed him for as long as he could manage which often left him falling asleep feeding or close to. I find now he still wants to feed his entire awake time (I'm not sure if this is related?). His daytime naps are 2-3 hours long so he is feeding roughly every 3-4 hours. He also tends to have a cluster feed period in the late afternoon/early evening. As soon as I get him out of bed he is screaming for food. I feed him then try to do playtime and change his nappy but the whole time he is mouthing for food and can get really grizzly. I top him up just before bed then go to put him down but he will still be mouthing for food and acting hungry. I will 'dump and run' and when i go back he is still acting hungry. If I don't feed him he can get really worked up and cry hysterically. Sometimes if I try to feed him again he will have a decent length feed but more often than not he'll feed for a minute and fall asleep. I don't want to get in the habit of him needing the breast for comfort or to fall asleep. Do you have any advice on how I can stop him needing to do this? Or how I can tell the difference between genuine hunger and him just wanting the comfort? They both appear to look the same!
Thanks in advance for you help.
Kerrie

Edited by Kerrie152896 - 26 November 2014 at 2:29pm
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Hi Dorothy,
Thanks for your talk the other day :) It was great!
My son is 12 weeks old now & we are having a lot of trouble getting him to sleep in the afternoon (after 2-3pm). If he does go to sleep it is usually only for 20-30 minutes at a time. Any hints or reasons why this is just an afternoon thing?
Also he has been a good night sleeper - up to 7 hours in one stretch then variable after that - but over the past 5 days he has gone back to 5 hours again. Is this related to a growth spurt?
Joanne
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DorothyW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2014 at 9:10am
Hi Sheli87
Firstly I would be looking at his daytime routine as this is what makes the night time routine. Ideally at 8months he is having wake hours of 3 hours or slightly longer depending on how he naps during the day.   
He will be having two naps of a minimum of 1 1/2 hours and if he wakes before this then ideally you will take the time to teach him to resettle . It is easier to teach during the day and you cant expect a baby to resettle overnight if you don't try during the day.

His wake time routine will be
wakes,
Meal (Breakfast and dinner)solids plus finger food, milk
Plays
Milk before nap
Nap

Lunch time i offer water with meal

Also check how much fruit he is eating - I find that too much fruit can contribute to night waking and at his age he only needs one serve at breakfast and lunch

Yes, the first big resettle to do is all the wake ups before midnight and then the midnight one. This is where he is probably going from a deep sleep to a light sleep.
Dorothy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DorothyW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2014 at 9:12am
HI Juls
I recommend that you do what you fee is right - try settling and resettling in the cot but don't be scared or concerned about picking him up and doing it in arms - this is where our babies belong. The key here is not to do movement that cannot be replicated in the cot

Consistency yes 80% so yes get out and go to your activities as long as you haven't booked back to back ones. It is good to go out once a day - I tend todo this in the mornings.

Resettling at night - consistency is the key, however babies aren't consistent so you will work out which way to resettle at the time.
Dorothy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DorothyW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2014 at 9:22am
HI Francess
Yes, your daughter has replaced her dummy, singing or rubbing her head by wanting to be rocked or fed. So the answer here is to step back and allow her the right and ability to find her sleep. How to do this is up to you and when doing it you go with what you feel is right and what is right for your baby.

I would also be looking at her daytime routine as well. Ideally she is having wake times of 3 hours and having 2 naps of a minimum of 1 1/2 hours.

Her wake time will be wakes, meal plus milk (breakfast and dinner), plays, milk and then nap. For lunch I tend to give them water with their meal.

So two ways of doing this. You could start with my under 12 week settling and resettling in arms and then progress to getting her back into her cot OR you could start with under 12 weeks setting in cots.

So
feed, sleeping bag
into cot
cries, respond, pick up and engulf - no movement, no dummies, no props. Your body has just become the bed so it needs to be still. Let her wriggle, cry (grizzle) for as long as you are happy - she is happy she is in your arms. Avoid stimulating her with eye and voice.   When you want to intervene then do so with cupping (find the movement she likes on her body) and sing. If she still wiggles and cry's then stop. You stop and start until you connect together and then you cup and sing until she goes to sleep.   Stay there until after the first sleep cycle and once she has gone into the next sleep cycle (around 1 1/4hr) then back into her cot.

Do each step for ten days - the first 3 to 4 days are always the hardest.

The next step would then to be instead of picking up straight away using touch in the cot and then intervene with the movement you used in arms, and again stop and start until you connect. At any time you are not a failure if you pick her up. small steps and you will get there.

Light sensitive
Have a look at your baby’s room - is it dark or is there lots of light? To see if your baby is light sensitive, black out the windows and all the little lights on all the electrical equipment in their room and see if this helps. It does not mean your baby will not sleep elsewhere as at this stage it is about encouraging your baby to go to sleep and stay asleep.

Settling and resettling notes
Settling and resettling take TACT - time, acceptance, consistency and touch.
Sleep is a learned behaviour. Sleep is also a kind of nutrient and walks hand in hand with food.
It takes a minimum of 10 days to see any changes and the light at the end of the tunnel is just a dim light. The first 3 to 4 days is always the hardest and to change their circadian sleep cycles it takes a minimum of 6 weeks. 
Sleep is a learned behaviour. Sleep is also a nutrient and walks hand in hand with food. It is healthy for a baby to cry/grizzle before going to sleep. When you go to bed you read a book, meditate, watch TV, or chat with your partner – a baby can only do one thing and that is cry. You are not leaving him there to cry it out; you are leaving him there to give him the ability to find his own sleep. In my experience it takes approximately 20 minutes for a baby to fall asleep, however you are not going to leave your baby to do this on their own. Ideally, you will put your baby in their cot awake, close the curtains and leave the room. You will leave your baby for an appropriate time and then intervene with reassurance - I tend to do this in 5 minute intervals so the settling routine will look like this. It also depends on the age of the baby. For babies under 12 weeks, I tend to do the settling in arms. IF doing in arms I never do any movement that cannot be replicated in a cot.
•     into bed, leave for up to 5 minutes (at your baby's age you will probably only leave for a minute. Also check the crying/grizzling and whether it is off or on)
•     comfort - reassure (this is normally less than the grizzling time)
•     this can be repeated for up to 20 minutes with reassurance every five minutes. You then need to stay in the room and help your baby find their sleep - if you already haven't. Sometimes babies will not be able to go to sleep if they are light sensitive. I would suggest that you look at your baby's room and if they are unable to fall asleep then try making the room darker.   
It is not about leaving your baby to cry it out, but it is about allowing your baby the right and ability to find their sleep. If they cannot do this in an appropriate time then intervene and help them to find their sleep.
Resettling
Teaches babies how to progress from light to heavy sleep. This is essential to avoid the pitfalls of frequent waking and catnapping. In a sense, resettling is the second stage of teaching baby how to find sleep and does demand more time and patience than settling (TACT).
Most babies stir or wake when progressing from light to heavy sleep and this occurs anywhere between 20-45 minutes. In the beginning the idea is not to let your baby wake fully during this transition; a sleepy baby is easier to resettle than a wide-awake, crying baby.
Resettling is not about calming them down or staying until they just start to drift off, it is about staying with your baby until they go into a deep sleep.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DorothyW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2014 at 9:29am
HI Nadia86
I would suggest using Dorothy's Drops for the colic and he will need these every feed. You can purchase off my website and if you do please let me know by my email dorothy@babybhelp.co.nz and I will send you the instructions on how I use them.   

With regard to changing from breast to formula you need to do what is right for you I would suggest though using a formula like NANHA, Karicare Comfort, Karicare HA or Aptimil HA. These formulas are partially hydrolysed - therefore the molecules are broken down further so easier for the baby to digest which helps for babies with colic, slight reflux and intolerances

Also I would be giving him probiotics these will help as well. Good burping techniques will help as well and ensuring he isn't taking too long to drink and has a good latch on with both the breast and bottle.

You aren't really sleep training what you are doing is teaching your baby how to fall asleep and how to stay asleep. Remember babies under 12 to 16 weeks do not have the tools on board to fall asleep and stay asleep so you are giving him a good start to learn how to do these things and at his age I tend to do in arms so he will be slightly elevated which again will help with his colic.

Another alternative is cranial or acupuncture both have good results for colic and reflux
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DorothyW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2014 at 9:32am
Hi Audrey
When resettling a baby at this age it can take me up to 45 minutes. However in that 45 minutes I will either give him some time to resettle on his own, or he will be in my arms for that length of time or I will be touching and cupping or giving some form of movement in his cot. At 5.5 months his wake times will be either 2 3/4 hours or 3 hours.

In his wake time he will be having solids plus milk, play then milk, then naps

Light sensitive
Have a look at your baby’s room - is it dark or is there lots of light? To see if your baby is light sensitive, black out the windows and all the little lights on all the electrical equipment in their room and see if this helps. It does not mean your baby will not sleep elsewhere as at this stage it is about encouraging your baby to go to sleep and stay asleep.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DorothyW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2014 at 9:40am
Hi Kerrie
You have got it - babies suck for comfort so it is hard to work out when they are really hungry, a little hungry or just want to suck for comfort.

As he is 8 weeks old his wake times will be around 1 hour stretching to 1 1/2 hours by the time he is 12 weeks old.

In that time - yes he will wake looking for food, so feed - ensure that he is productively sucking - if not then encourage him to keep sucking or take him off and re position and put him back.   Once he is fed (whether it is half a feed or full feed, then change burp etc and 15 minutes before putting him back to bed reoffer him some milk)

Are you feeding one sided. If try this and see if it makes a difference - try madonna (1/2 cradle) or rugby (football hold). I tend to say I take the cake off the first side and the icing off the second side. There is no correct recommendation on how to feed as each mother and baby are different so you need to work it out for yourself however remember we are wanting to get the hind milk to him so if you are feeding both sides before he has finished with the first side he will be getting more fore milk.

When settling just swaddle, into his cot, if he cries, respond, pick up engulf, and let him have a cry (grizzle) then intervene with the cupping and shushing. IF he doesn't respond stop, let him cry (grizzle) and then intervene with cupping shushing and dummy. You will need to experiment with the dummy but remember he cannot hold it in himself. He needs a little support behind the dummy. When you breast feed he has your weight behind the nipple and the same prinicple for the bottle. Once you connect with him then continue with the cupping (movement within arms) and shushing until he goes to sleep. Leave him in arms until he goes through the next sleep cycle (around 1 1/4) and then back into bed. Once he wakes it is feed time again
Dorothy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DorothyW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2014 at 9:43am
HI Joanne
the 20 minute mark is normally digestive.   

Look at your food, supplement, liquid intake and see if this helps. Good burping techniques throughout the day will help as well.   

Ideally his wake times are around 1 1/2 hours so you may need to reefed before he goes down for all of his naps. This will mean he will take on more food during the day. IT does not cause a feed/sleep association as long as you feed/swaddle/sleep

He could also be overtired in the afternoon so keep an eye on his wake times in the morning and again ideally should be around the 1 1/2 hour mark.

Light sensitive
Have a look at your baby’s room - is it dark or is there lots of light? To see if your baby is light sensitive, black out the windows and all the little lights on all the electrical equipment in their room and see if this helps. It does not mean your baby will not sleep elsewhere as at this stage it is about encouraging your baby to go to sleep and stay asleep.

Gastric emptying
The gastric emptying of a breast-fed baby after 120 minutes is 16% to 18%, so when you are trying to put her down for naps she may be hungry. This will not cause a feed/sleep association as long as you feed, then swaddle/sleeping bag, then into her bed. Also, you need to be aware that she doesn’t fall asleep while feeding unless you choose to do this.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DorothyW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2014 at 9:44am
Hi Ladies
Thank you for all your questions and hopefully the answers will help you. It was lovely to meet you all at the OHBaby Coffee Catchup.

Remember before you do anything STOP, THINK, and ACT – work out what you are doing, why you are doing, and what you are trying to accomplish and then act.

Remember YOU are the baby’s mum and so listen to your heart and instinct.   Yes, we all don’t do it by the book, or get it right the first time, but you need to make ‘mistakes’ to get it right for you.   It’s a time of learning a little person’s personality and figuring out what works for your home life.

If you have the time I would love to see you pop over to http://www.facebook.com/BabyWithin and 'like' it. You can then keep up with information that I post from time to time or hear from other mothers who write on the wall. Also there is now a “recommendations’ section and it would great to hear your comments.

You can also find lots of tools and tutorials on my website www.babyhelp.co.nz

Please remember as a parent or carer that you should understand and acknowledge that Dorothy is NOT a licensed medical doctor or other licensed medical provider and the information that I share with you has come from experience and working with numerous families and babies and toddlers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Francess165424 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2014 at 7:51pm
Hi Dorothy,
Thank you very much for that advice and more specifics for her age. We will take some of these techniques that we choose and keep a consistent response if she keeps crying and doesn't go to sleep. Interestingly when we do get her to sleep now she is sleeping for much longer in the day so is either happy resettling herself or is too tired and is going back to sleep more because of that! Either way these longer day sleeps are good for her. Thanks again, Francess.
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