OHbaby! Forums : Disciplinary Action at work https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Sun, 05 Apr 2026 01:48:20 +0000 Wed, 21 May 2008 22:19:16 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.05 360 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=17426 <![CDATA[OHbaby! Forums]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_images/web_wiz_forums.png https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/ <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : I&#039;m an HR Manager so have...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=390423&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#390423 Author: jaz
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 10:19pm

I'm an HR Manager so have been through this lots of times. Hopefully she'll bring an HR representative into the meeting to ensure the company follows a fair process which includes listening to both parties and determining whether further action is required. You can always tell them tomorrow that you've only had one day to find a support person and that is not enough time and ask to reschedule. ]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 22:19:16 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=390423&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#390423 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : hey angie - just wanted to say...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=390324&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#390324 Author: emachan
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:12pm

hey angie - just wanted to say hope that you get through all of this and I'll be thinking of you when your meeting comes along. Hopefully it's opened your bosses eyes up that things aren't going well, and SHE needs to open her eyes to whats troubling her employees! *hugs*]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 21:12:10 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=390324&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#390324 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : Hey. Sorry to hear you are going...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=390213&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#390213 Author: FionaS
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 8:09pm

Hey. Sorry to hear you are going through this. This kind of thing is common place in my role as an HR manager so if you need any advice at all re: your rights, how to approach it, employment law etc please do PM me. There are so many things I could post about regarding this but it is better if you ask me if you have any specific questions. As an HR person I'm trained to understand the employees point of view as well as the employers and balance the two out with what is fair and legal.

]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 20:09:55 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=390213&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#390213 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : Thanks all for your advice and...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=390194&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#390194 Author: AngieBabe
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 7:52pm

Thanks all for your advice and support.

I have rung the DOL and they talked me through a few things. I also visited Cits Advice (tho' the lady wasn't all that helpful tellling me to ring DOL...) but have found a flyer for Community Law Centre so will give them a ring tomorrow and ask about Employment Advocates and see if I can get me one of those - but it might cost.

The frustrating thing is most tell me first up that it can be a family, friend or colleague as support person, doesn't have to be 'legal person' but unfortunately my hubby doesn't feel comfortable doing this and I don't have close enough friends here in Wellington or for that matter other family (at times like these I wonder why I moved!) and while I have a good friend who's a colleague I don't want to make things awkward for her as it's really a small office I work in (about 12 people max).]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 19:52:51 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=390194&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#390194 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : ring the department of labour....]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=390163&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#390163 Author: lizzle
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 7:24pm

ring the department of labour. My hubby was sacked from his job and we were going through unfair dismissal claims - until the wuss backed out. (hubby, not boss), but the DOL were SOOOO helpful and lovely. greta advice.]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 19:24:05 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=390163&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#390163 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : i found this , it might help ?(btw,...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389908&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389908 Author: caitlynsmygirl
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 3:24pm

i found this , it might help ?(btw, sorry you have to go through this )

1: Look out for the warning signs that you are being lined up for a disciplinary procedure.

Only reckless bosses sack people on the spot. Well-organised employers will take steps to show that they are being fair to ward off the spectre of paying out for unfair dismissal.

Underperformers will receive warnings about capability. They will be given specific improvement targets and time frames, and told how the company will help.

It is only if the employee fails to make the required improvement within this period that the employer may be justified in taking action, which may include dismissal on notice.

Under New Zealand law, says lawyer Andrew Scott-Howman of Bell Gully Wellington, the employer must give an employee accused of misconduct thorough information about the complaint.

The staffer must be given time to consider and respond, and the boss can only make a decision once that response has been received.

Instant dismissal is usually only justified if serious misconduct is the conclusion, says Scott-Howman - this generally means something which seriously breaches trust and confidence, and is sometimes defined precisely in employee contracts or company policy.

2: Read your employer's rules and policy. Companies are foolish if they do not follow these precisely.

3: Listen closely in your appraisals. Effective disciplinarians will clearly warn you to improve in an appraisal and then record this in writing. "Most trouble for employers in appraisals comes from one word - satisfactory," says David Whincup, employment specialist at British solicitor Hammond Suddards Edge.

"In the dictionary, satisfactory means suitable or acceptable. But actually satisfactory, when it is spoken, means unsatisfactory."

"And average means below average. But linguistic niceties like these will not be picked up on by an [employment] tribunal."

4: Watch out if your boss drops you a hint, by, say, encouraging you to smile more often. Friendly behaviour could be deemed part of your duties if you have to deal with people. Could a company legitimately discipline or dismiss a grumpy, non-smiling receptionist?

"Several months ago," says Scott-Howman, "a job centre in England was roundly criticised for posting a job description for a "friendly catering manager".

"Apparently, the view was reached that this advertisement discriminated against people who were not friendly!"
"My view is that a New Zealand employer would be hard-pressed to justify a dismissal of, for example, a receptionist for not being "friendly".

"I think that it would be far more likely that grounds for a performance improvement would be phrased differently - such as a need to improve appearance and demeanour to the required professional standard - and that such improvement would be measured."

5: Remember that you are able to bring a union representative or other companion into a disciplinary or grievance hearing.

But make sure that the rep knows the business, warns Hammond Suddards: an employment hearing might give you less sympathy if your rep forgot to raise important issues at the time.

6: Understand that thousands of employers mishandle disciplinary proceedings. Common errors include letting a witness to an incident chair the resultant hearing. Another big failing is to prejudice a disciplinary hearing - and to say as much in writing.

"Reinstatement to a job is the primary remedy provided by the Employment Relations Act," says Scott-Howman, "as an ultimate conclusion to a grievance - but also possibly as an interim step while proceedings are ongoing."

Alternatively, a claim for unjustified dismissal may result in a significant award of damages in favour of an aggrieved employee."

"In my view, an employer would generally be prudent to record its decision in writing - probably in a letter to the employee."

7: Respond as positively as possible if you do want to keep your job. Although some managers may be bent on getting rid of a particular employee, others will be more than prepared to help someone who repents and reforms.]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 15:24:53 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389908&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389908 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : I second the writing thing. I...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389789&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389789 Author: Jay_R
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 2:03pm

I second the writing thing. I did this in a job when I was having problems, and it made me really realise exactly how bad things were.]

Just one thing, and I am not wanting to upset anyone here, but I had an experience that sounds very similar to yours AngieBabe, but for me it was the shoe on the other foot scenario. I came in to a new job, as a manager, and had staff who were totally anti-me from the word go. They made life really difficult for me, always chatting secretly between themselves, and very obviously didn't like the fact that I'd taken over from someone who had been in the job for a long time before I came along. So I tried to exert my authority, and was basically called a power hungry bitch as well.

I guess what I'm saying, is that perhaps she's having a tough time of it, being new in her job, and maybe she's just reacting badly to feelings she's been picking up on, and maybe feeling really insecure???

Sorry, this might not make much sense, but anyway, I really hope things go ok for you.]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 14:03:22 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389789&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389789 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : I would start putting everything...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389710&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389710 Author: MummyFreckle
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 12:58pm

I would start putting everything in writiing - so even though you have spoken to the PA, I would follow it up with an email so that you have a record of it. (Start recording EVERYTHING now, just in case, and print it out and take it home - so its not on work PC that they can control).

It sounds a bit like overkill but when you start to write down all the conversations, you can start to look at things from a slightly calmer view point and also pick up things that are important.

]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 12:58:27 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389710&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389710 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : Hmmm, I know what you&#039;re...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389705&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389705 Author: AngieBabe
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 12:53pm

Hmmm, I know what you're saying and I guess I will apologise for that (even tho' I it will hurt!) as I know I could've phrased what I was trying to say better rather than using 'bitch'.

However, I also get the feeling there is a bit more to this, that I just don't fit with her plans for around here (she started here only 3 months ago) and she'd like to get rid of me if she can so is making things as unpleasant as possible - silly me, by using bad language it's given her a reason to take things further, and I'm mad at myself for letting that happen.

Arrrgh, this is hard! I know what set things off yesterday was just me not allowing myself to be walked over - boss even admitted in the meeting that she'll change things in my role just because she can, not necessarily because it has any greater good to it.

]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 12:53:55 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389705&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389705 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : good on you for re-schedulling...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389666&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389666 Author: Andie
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 12:23pm

good on you for re-schedulling the meeting so you can take someone along.  Hope you find just the right person for the job!  It couldn't hurt to go into the meeting with a prepared apology could it?  OK not knowing the circumstances at all, I don't know whether or not you could honestly apologise for calling her that, but nobody likes to be called a bitch, so that might have got her back up more than you intended, and takes the discussions to a different level where it's too easy to react rather than act intentionally, if I'm making any sense! 

]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 12:23:49 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389666&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389666 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : Thanks for all the advice - I...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389619&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389619 Author: AngieBabe
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 11:40am

Thanks for all the advice - I am still a bit rattled by it all but have at least been to see boss's PA (as boss is away today) to let her know I can't make the meeting tomorrow and will re-schedule once I have found an appropriate person to act as my representative.

Now to find that rep. As I said there isn't a union in operation here (we're a charity organisation and have a fairly small staff in quite diverse jobs) but I do intend on ringing Dept of Labour and Cits Advice to get more info on where I stand.

Any other ideas are welcome!

Edited by AngieBabe]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 11:40:40 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389619&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389619 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : I agree with Roksana but I have...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389591&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389591 Author: Joelle
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 11:11am

I agree with Roksana but I have changed a could to must:

Originally posted by Roksana Roksana wrote:

First of all if you do not have a person yet you don't have to attend the meeting on the day.

You must go in and say that you want someone but unable to get that person til XXX day, they have to allow you to find some one before starting the meeting.


If you don't go and say something they will assume that your not attending.]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 11:11:26 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389591&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389591 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : First of all if you do not have...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389586&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389586 Author: Roksana
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 10:55am

First of all if you do not have a person yet you dont have to attend the meeting on the day. You could go in and say that you want some one but unable to get the person til XXX day, they have to allow you to find some one before starting the meeting.

She sounds like a bitch....so you should argue that you statement was correct...LOL

On a serious note: think about what happened and how it happened. If there was no one else in the room than it is her work against yours. Think about what you are going to say etc. DH would be a better person to take or a personal friend. Some one at work could work however you dont really wanna let the whole office know what is going on.

But again...you dont have to attend the meeting untill you have found someone suitable.

Good luck!]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 10:55:58 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389586&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389586 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : , I hope it all turns out ok!!...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389517&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389517 Author: nicolaann
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:58am

, I hope it all turns out ok!!]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 09:58:47 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389517&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389517 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : Is there a union at your work?...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389515&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389515 Author: MrsMojo
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:58am

Is there a union at your work? The union rep might be happy to go along with you anyway in their capacity as a work colleague.]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 09:58:18 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389515&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389515 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : Firstly; it&#039;s going to be...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389495&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389495 Author: .Mel
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:50am

Firstly; it's going to be her word against yours. She has obviously decided to make the situation into much worse than it really is.

You definitely need to take someone with you, can your partner come with you? Do you have someone at work that doesn't feel intimidated by her?

When you get into the meeting she should advise you that the person that you have with you isn't allowed to talk or contribute to the conversation. She will probably have the warning typed out and there "should" be a bit on the page where you have to sign it saying that you agree that you were a naughty girl. If you feel that it isn't justified you do not have to sign the paper, my advice would be not to until you get it checked by a lawyer.

If you need further suggestions let me know, I used to be a union rep at my old job, so know the score

]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 09:50:20 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389495&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389495 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : Definitely call Citizens Advice...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389492&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389492 Author: MrsMojo
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:47am

Definitely call Citizens Advice or the Wellington Community Law Centre. I'd suggest going into the meeting with someone who has a legal background. There was a place near manners street that offered free representation but I can't remember their name CAB or WCL will be able to point you in the right direction though if they can't offer and advocate.]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 09:47:48 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389492&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389492 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : I&#039;ve had to attend a meeting...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389488&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389488 Author: kebakat
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:43am

I've had to attend a meeting before where it was advised I bring someone along (it was more that I had laid a complaint against my immediate boss).. I took DH, he was good with words and listened carefully to what was happening and put in comments when he felt he could etc.

Try and remember exactly what was said and perhaps make a written apology for the heated comments if needed?]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 09:43:20 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389488&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389488 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : Definitely do not go to the meeting...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389479&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389479 Author: aqua36
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:35am

Definitely do not go to the meeting by yourself, try taking a colleague.  I'd also ring the labour department (I think) and ask them where to go for advice - I'm sure there is somewhere to go but mummy brain cannot remember name.

  In future I wouldn't attend a meeting with her alone and make notes straight after the meeing.  It is hard in the heat of the moment we all say things we regret or that some out wrong.

 

]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 09:35:44 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389479&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389479 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : Sorry to hear you&#039;re going...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389478&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389478 Author: caraMel
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:35am

Sorry to hear you're going through this Angie!
I don't really have any experience with it and others will probably be able to advise you better but how about giving Citizen's Advice Bureau a call? They should be able to tell you who would be a good representative to take.
Good luck chicky!]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 09:35:30 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389478&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389478 <![CDATA[Disciplinary Action at work : I&#039;ve been having a tough...]]> https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389473&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389473 Author: AngieBabe
Subject: 17426
Posted: 21 May 2008 at 9:31am

I've been having a tough time of it at work lately, well a bit longer than lately to be honest but recently it's all come to a head.

I won't go into a huge amount of detail but will say that yesterday I had regular meeting with my boss and it got a bit heated and I made an inappropriate choice of words. She believes I was swearing AT her whereas I was more using it in a turn of phrase (okay, it was 'power-hungry bitch' )... and she threatened me with a 'formal warning'. There was no clarification at the time whether it was a verbal warning or a written.

Today I get into work to a message (she's away today) that I'm to attend a meeting tomorrow and that I'm welcome to bring representation as it'll likely be that I receive disciplinary action.

I'm at a loss as I don't belong to a union and I have never been through something like this before - I don't feel safe going into that meeting without someone with me but I just don't know who it should be and I don't know what union if any represents my job - I'm a Communications Advisor (media liasion and stuff like that).

Any ideas to help me out of this bind would be greatly appreciated

(and thanks for putting up with such a long post )]]> Wed, 21 May 2008 09:31:14 +0000 https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17426&PID=389473&title=disciplinary-action-at-work#389473