almostthere wrote: Also, abortions up to 22 weeks in america were, im not sure if they still are, performed but the mother has to go through a partial birth. It looks and sounds horrible for child and mother There is no reason besides the health of mother and child to have to go through this! I think that if you get to that stage what would be so wrong with keeping on going and delivering the baby and adopting it out? She'd be over half way at that point and the smallest prem baby was on 22 weeks wasnt he? OK so here i am showing some of my prolife tendencies, but i am still very much prochoice. I just think that the doctors that choose to perform them at that stage, well, hmm..

Just a comment on this, a dear friend of mine found out at her 20 week scan that her wee boy had severe brain damage  If I remember rightly she was told over 20 weeks is classed as stillborn.  After they made the agonising decision not to continue with the pregnancy her wee boy was born at 22 weeks.  Basically she was induced and yes, had to go through labour and birth. 

I am pro choice

Wow - we have managed to clock up 6 pages on this...

I wanted to say thank you to those of you who have shared very personal stories in such an open and honest way. Its not an easy topic to talk about openly, as society / religion / culture makes it such a shameful thing. I think we all respect that the choices made were hard ones, but the right ones for you at the time.

Anyway - I just wanted to say Thanks!

My sis was told, by a nurse at Hutt Hospital Wellington, that she should have an abortion when she was 26 weeks preg with her second child  

She was married at the time and although he was unplanned he was very much wanted but because she had a fractured pubo synthesis (pelvic bone?) and was in pain the nurse thought she should terminate.

Emma- I agree with you. Melnel and Rianna I think you shared my thoughts also. I personally do not agree with abortion but acknowledge it's place in society has to exist if only for womens safety.

This is a very sensitive topic that needs to be discussed as it affects us all.  Everybody is obviously going to have a very different response to these questions, as we can see here just in this thread! But who is to say which opinion is 'right'? We make our opinions and judgements based  upon our life experiences. My life experience of ttc for 9 months and having 2 m/c (1 at 13 weeks) is clearly different from those who have fallen accidently pg at a time in their life when they feel they couldn't cope. Therefore I base my view with this in mind....although in all fairness I have felt this way since before ttc.

I think the problem I personally have with abortion is at the end of the day, *someone* has to decide at what stage is it 'ok' to terminate a pregnancy and under what conditions? As an example,  I notice some ladies talking about 8-10 weeks being as appropriate a time as any to abort, but that late termination is not ok. This is arguably a double standard as at 8-10 weeks, life has already started and indeed, flourished and developed more so during that first trimester than later on. I do not feel comfortable enough making that decision for myself, let alone anyone else!

Others comment that keeps cropping up is that using abortion as a form of contraception is abhorrent-  yet isn't that what is ultimately happening when we abort anyway? The only difference is motivation IMO. The contraception (if there was any ) failed. It doesn't matter what this 'contraception' was. It didn't work and now we are pg. We imagine it is more horrible to consider someone who is cavalier in their attitude to contraception who merrily aborts their pregnancy and feel pity for a worn out mother of 3 who just can't cope with an unplanned pregnancy or a survivor of rape. Yet all 3 examples are unarguably doing the same action.

I believe this is an unsolvable arguement. One could quite easily compare it to the proposition of introducing euthanasia (let's not though! ) as that is another topic where at some stage *someone* has to draw the line on where, when, how and why.  We're on the slippery slope already.... we just need to decide how to best manage the descent! On this note, laws do need to be in place to try to limit the abuse of abortion, and quite rightly so. There also needs to be in place laws to protect the vulnerable and help them in time of need, which again, I think we do have in NZ. There are potentially many solutions and I believe ongoing, non judgemental discussion is the way forward.

**end of mini-essay**

LOL Steph.

Mum2Lucas wrote: Kelly & Kels - I'm thinking of you. I understand, oh how I understand (not the abortion aspect). .

  I havent had an abortion hun

Becks It freaked me out so much I wanted to leave, it was just sooo spooky.  It was with Sue Nicholls from sensing murder before it was on our screens and she wasnt charging the  earth

Wow Kels that is spooky, I would be shocked too.

I get what you mean hun. It really is hard if your not in the actual situation aye.

I am lucky that I have healed and dealt with it all in the pass and the "rapist" in question is in Jail so I can sleep at night.

When I went to a psychic a while ago she said while I was working in the door "yor daughter is here with you she is a teenage" I nearly fell over and then she said "she is saying she loves to look after her 2 little sisters", this was all before I had even sat down and said anything but hello. I was in shock!!

I also acknowledge my wee girl as she is always with me and have posted a remberence to her in the thread "in memory of our little ones"

Been raped by BF older brother and concieved from it at 14yrs  but miscarried at 12 weeks later.

I dont believe it for myself and even in the situation of rape I still would not abort, it would be my baby and the dad situation would be insignificant (no father would be recorded on the cert)   I also believe they are babies from the moment of conception and couldnt ever take a life of any of my children. If anything I have worked harder as each baby has come along (I mean career wise making a better life etc) and never regret it at all.

HOWEVER I think each people has the choice to make the right decision for themselves and their situation. I have supported 2 close friends thru the whole experience and wouldnt wish that decision on anyone.

I have seen many girls go for repeat abortions as the Dr I was working with was a stanch catholic and refused to refer them so it ended up my job. It did get to a point where the hosp refused to abort this particular lady as she was at number 6 in one year unless she signed consent to a depo before discharge.

On the flip side the distress and pain I saw in ladies eyes when making the decision was heart wrenching

Maya wrote: OK so here's a curly one - what do you define as "too late" in pregnancy for an abortion?

For me anything over 10 weeks. Ideally 8 weeks but sometimes you don't fine out you are pregnant till you are further along.

I am pro choice but I don't believe that it should be used as a form on contraception or should it be used later on in pregnancy.

I am going to wade in here with another slightly controversial take on this discussion....

Given the amount of babies and children that are being murdered and tortured in their own homes by people who are supposed to love them and want them.....would we (as a society) want to make it illegal to abort truly unwanted babies.

I have my own personal issues and story regarding abortion, which I dont feel comfortable sharing here, but I do beleive that it is a choice that should be made with both parties involved but ultimately the woman is going to be physically and mentally affected the most, so it should be her choice in the end. I also get really really peeved at the plackard waving, banner carriers that are normally middle-aged / elderly MEN, with a religious agenda. It is not a decision taken lightly (by most women) and it has long term affects on most of them. I doubt very much that there is anyone that truly regrets their decision - as its normally made at a time where you couldnt (for whatever reason) have a baby in your life.  

I used to work at NWH, and could see the women going into the Day Unit for terminations from my office. I never once passed judgement on any of them - as I dont know there stories, but I did used to think how terribly hard for them to have had to walk / drive past the dumb a*s with the plackards outside the entrance. I also used to think how terribly sad it was when there were quite young girls coming in - alone - its not something that anyone should go through alone IMO, but most do because its such a "shameful secret".

Going to leave it there - as I can feel myself getting worked up about this.....