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60 minutes : Took my brother 6 months. He was...

Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:08:26 +0000

Author: flakesitchyfeet
Subject: 29821
Posted: 14�November�2009 at 10:08am

Took my brother 6 months. He was booted out after nurmerous incidents with disrespect/booze/boy racing. Mum did every possible thing she could to get him back on track, however with Mum and Dad in seperate homes it wasn't hard for him to do /get what he wanted anyway. Mum worked with a cop liason as support, and in the end couldn't do it any more. Broke her heart making him leave, but turns out it was the best thing for him.

Long story short, him and mum now get on much better but she wont take any resposibility for him now anyway, in the sense that he's on his own, now he's 18. He found himself a flat and job, he had to then, is paying off his fines and paying his bills. Because he was forced to take some responsibilty, he grew up.

Edited by Flake

60 minutes : Oh that was me I think - I said...

Sat, 14 Nov 2009 09:03:35 +0000

Author: Babe
Subject: 29821
Posted: 14�November�2009 at 9:03am

Oh that was me I think - I said I went off the rails abit but there were lines I just couldn't bring myself to cross no matter how self-destructive I was feeling. I've ended up fairly sorted now and am using alot of my parents principles in my life even though my life is totally different to theirs.

I do think thats a mark of good parenting fattartsrock but not the only mark by any means and like Paws said teenagers are stupid for a long time. You may find in 10 years that your stepson has actually settled down like I did and shockingly enough is using some of the principles you and DH taught him. It took me 9 years of some very bad decisions to get to this point

60 minutes : I don't think anyone was...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:02:43 +0000

Author: LittleBug
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 10:02pm

I don't think anyone was implying you are a bad parent fattartsrock!! I sure wasn't. You can do everything that you can to be the best parent that you can, but in the end it isn't just up to you. You can only do your best. I hope you didn't think that I was getting at you when I said that I want to be the best parent that I can... I mean, I DO want to be the best parent that I can but I understand that in the end it's your children's decisions that will shape the person they become.

It sounds to me like you have probably made the right decision, kicking him out, so that he doesn't have a bad influence on the rest of your family. It must be sooo tough dealing with any teenager, let alone one that has been blatantly abusing his rights in your house. I think you deserve a medal to be honest.

I always feel for parents whose kids end up on the news for something, say drink driving, and people blame the parents for "not raising them right". In the end, you don't know what the influence was that got them that way... school, movies, society in general... there are so many things that influence your child these days. The parents could have been perfect and it may not have mattered, yet they will always get pointed at, because it's easier to have someone to blame.

60 minutes : I know research has shown that...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:52:37 +0000

Author: Paws
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 9:52pm

I know research has shown that there is a part of the teenagers brain that does not fully develop until I believe it's early 20's. It effects decision making and judgment which is was even when we feel teens should know better they are a law unto themselves. So it's not a reflection on parents, it's pure psychology. (well ok unless you're the sort of parent who is boozing up with your 13 year old, offering them pot and discussing tactics for their next car break in with their live in girlfriend/boyfriend then MAYBE we could blame the parents just a little. )

60 minutes : YEp I do, Just saw a comment somehwere...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:35:41 +0000

Author: fattartsrock
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 9:35pm

YEp I do, Just saw a comment somehwere about a testament to good parenting or something which made me see red, as from experience I know that good parents do make bad kids. or kids who do and make bad and dumb choices. Should be no reflection on the parents at all, but people do alwsys think I wonder where the parents are etc. Have heard it time and again,not about our situaiton (well people never say that to your face) but about others in a similar situation, and I can say I haev sat on my high horse many times too sayign the same things and now I know that while you may be responsible for them, they are just a law unto themselves.

60 minutes : Yea, that is true, I guess Fleur....

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:57:06 +0000

Author: Hopes
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 5:57pm

Yea, that is true, I guess Fleur. Very good point. Let me re-phrase my thoughts. I think teens tend to be classic for making bad decisions. You're half-way between being mature enough to live your own life, and still needing some guidance to make the right choices. So in that way, I think parents have a really big role in guiding the decisions you make and putting boundaries in place to ensure you don't screw things up too royally.

At the same time, when a teen does make a wrong decision, I think they need to take some ownership of that. Teens are adult enough to consider the options if they want to. So when a kid goes off the rails despite the parents best efforts, you can't blame Mum and Dad for not forcing them to do the right thing, because at that point, they're their own person, and responsible for their decisions.

Hmm.... does that make any sense?

Edited by Hopes

60 minutes : Would just like to clarify for...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:54:21 +0000

Author: emz
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 4:54pm

Would just like to clarify for the person who said that lesbians have been more accepted than homosexuals...

Lesbians ARE homosexuals Homosexual implies you are attracted (the sexual part) to the same (homo) sex. Just like hetero means different.

The correct terms commonly used are Lesbian (female) and Gay (male).

And fattartsrock - I think (from what I've read) you've done a fab job with that teen - he sounds like an absoluted handful and it must be hard trying to 'pick up' where someone has left off. I may not agree with you on many things (tehehe ) but from everything I've heard you've tried with him, I agree with your dealings and your current position, and just hope it works out for the best for all of you.

60 minutes : Hopes wrote:Yea, I agree. Teenagers...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:43:56 +0000

Author: caliandjack
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 4:43pm

Hopes wrote:

Yea, I agree. Teenagers are people in their own right, and most of the responsibility for decisions they make is their own. So if he's chosing to be a stupid jerk, it's not your fault.

Interesting statement how many times to do you see teenagers behaving like idiots and think 'where are the parents?'

While as a parent you might not have any control over them they're still your responsibility until they're 18.

60 minutes : Yea, I agree. Teenagers are people...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 16:02:13 +0000

Author: Hopes
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 4:02pm

Yea, I agree. Teenagers are people in their own right, and most of the responsibility for decisions they make is their own. So if he's chosing to be a stupid jerk, it's not your fault.

60 minutes : I'm sure nobody thinks that...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:50:31 +0000

Author: clover
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 3:50pm

I'm sure nobody thinks that you are a bad parent and that nobody wanted to imply it either. I've read many of your posts on your stepson and I can honestly say that I think you did a fantastic job trying to have him live with you for as long as you did.

60 minutes : If I made you feel like a bad...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:23:34 +0000

Author: Babe
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 3:23pm

If I made you feel like a bad parent with anything I said I'm really sorry hun I never thought it for a minute!!
You're right in the end kids are individuals and they will make their own decisions. I'm trying to find the best formula by which to parent in order to get the best results for my kids but there are no guarantees are there?!
Sorry you're having a difficult time with your step-son, I remember reading about it in other threads and I hope homelife settles into peace after he packs his attitude up and leaves.

60 minutes : I would just liketo state, for...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:36:37 +0000

Author: fattartsrock
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 2:36pm

I would just liketo state, for the record, that My Husband and I are NOT BAD PARENTS because step son went off the rails.

In fact I think we are the absolute opposite. We have spent and absolute fortune in TIME and money trying to "fix" this kid and nothing has worked. His mother kicked him out of her home a year ago for the same reasons we have now asked him to go.

I hate to breakit to you perfect parents whos children won't rebel, some kids just do, regardless of their homes and upbringings.

WE also had strict boundires/accepted standards of behaviour in our home growing up, a bit OTT in my opinion, even now, but now I know why. 2 of us were "good kids" who did and still do, toe line, and one of us went absolutely off the rails and still is.

Sometimes its just the make up of the child.

60 minutes : Tui89 wrote:Basically it is...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:54:07 +0000

Author: AzzaNZ
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 1:54pm

Tui89 wrote:

Basically it is in an r18 mag, that the kids will never see, and the pictures were not really that bad. My man and I watched together and agreed we'd have no problem having her teach our kids.

Can I just add, not for any reason other than accuracy, the pictures were on the website and the images shown on the program and newspapers are the tame images.

She is still one of the best teachers at the daycare and my daughter is still there with her every day. My little one is only 2 and a half, she has not seen the pictures and has no awareness of things like that so I cant see any way it could influence her. If she were 9 or 10 I may give it more thought. Now if only my DH would stop ogling the pics *sigh*

60 minutes : Yeah you can look up the decisions...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:18:32 +0000

Author: emz
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 1:18pm

Yeah you can look up the decisions on the teachers council site - its quite amazing what some people haven't been deregistered for (inappropriate relationships with students etc).

60 minutes : Tui89 wrote:I thought it was...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:54:57 +0000

Author: LittleBug
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 12:54pm

Tui89 wrote:

I thought it was interesting what they said at the end, how their had been teacher who had been in sexual relationships with students, downloaded porn and left it at school where kids could see, etc, who had not been fired

That is just wrong, to me!!! I can't believe those other teachers haven't been fired.

60 minutes : I thought it was interesting what...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:41:01 +0000

Author: Tui89
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 12:41pm

I thought it was interesting what they said at the end, how their had been teacher who had been in sexual relationships with students, downloaded porn and left it at school where kids could see, etc, who had not been fired.

Basically it is in an r18 mag, that the kids will never see, and the pictures were not really that bad. My man and I watched together and agreed we'd have no problem having her teach our kids.

60 minutes : LOL do you know why lesbians have...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:34:42 +0000

Author: Babe
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 12:34pm

LOL do you know why lesbians have been more accepted in society over the years than homosexuals??
Apparently Queen uhm Victoria I think decided to make same-sex relationships illegal but because she absolutely couldn't fathom why a woman would be attracted to another woman she didn't it was possible so only passed the law in relation to men I thought that was so funny when I heard it! Anyway homosexual relationships were illegal for quite awhile which cast a dark cloud over peoples outlook but since lesbian relationships were just weird and not illegal it kinda got a different response. Interesting much?!

60 minutes : I think if I want to read all...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:28:08 +0000

Author: SMoody
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 12:28pm

I think if I want to read all the pages I will need to do this while Andrew is asleep, so just been glancing here and there.

On the original topic. Her private life is just that, but she did bring it into the open and then there will always be opinions about it. I will judge her as a teacher if my child was in her class and as Azza stated she seems to be great. Does she bring that into the classroom then my child will be yanked out.

You never ever going to get a teacher with the same moral compass or reference structure as yours.

As for gay and lesbian not being natural. What is natural to one person is not natural to another person. For me someone getting a tattoo is totally foreign. I just dont get it. But just because I dont like it doesnt mean it is unnatural. It isnt for me to say how they must live their lifes.

My only concern is, just as long as what you do dont intend to hurt someone else and that you are totally consenting to what is done.

There is white and black but in between there is a huge huge grey area. For me if my kids come to me one day saying they are gay I might be shocked. More so if my boy comes to me than my girl (dont ask me why, me myself dont even know why). I might even be dissapointed, just like I think you will be with everything in life that you dream for your child and doesnt work out like that in the end. My only thing in the end will be: Is my Kid happy? If they are I think we will come to terms with it and even accept the choice fully as much as we can.

Will I accept my child? To me that isnt even a question. When I carried them for so long, Gave birth to them. Yes I accept them. I might not agree with their choices but they will always be my kids.

60 minutes : OKdoke

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:06:16 +0000

Author: Babe
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 12:06pm

OKdoke

60 minutes : Babe wrote:As for questioning...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:53:29 +0000

Author: clover
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 11:53am

Babe wrote:

As for questioning me because it make no sense to you why I can't just accept it well I don't fully understand how you can think its perfectly natural but I'm not making an issue out of that I'm accepting that we're different and that's ok and moving on. This isn't a black and white issue - each of us have based how we feel in our different faiths (or lack thereof) and experiences.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say you should accept it, I was careful to say that you have every right to your own opinion which I truly belive you do (even if I don't agree ). Questioning some of your comments was to attempt to understand your point of view better rather than saying that I'm right and you're wrong. In this example I don't think anyone is *right* because we are all giving our opinions on our own individual beliefs be they religous or otherwise.

The world would be a pretty boring place if we all agreed on everything!

Edited by summerlamb

60 minutes : LOL Littlebug yep I had the whole...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:37:31 +0000

Author: Babe
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 11:37am

LOL Littlebug yep I had the whole guy staying over just in a seperate room thing too. At first I was worried it'd drive them off but nope they were fine with it

I was the same about my belly button piercing too - waiting so long for it meant I'd really had to think it through and I adore it I really feel that its part of who I am and refuse to remove it even when I'm preg

60 minutes : summerlamb wrote: ...it just...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:34:36 +0000

Author: Babe
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 11:34am

summerlamb wrote:

...it just saddens me that some people still judge people based on something that I think is no big deal. There have been gay people since the beginning of time.

I'm not judging anybody hun I'm saying my opinion of the lifestyle is that its wrong. I base my opinion on something bigger than what you or another person thinks. Considering societys 'ground rules' on what is acceptable or not changes backwards and forwards through the ages it makes far more sense to me to go with what I believe is a Higher Authority

As for questioning me because it make no sense to you why I can't just accept it well I don't fully understand how you can think its perfectly natural but I'm not making an issue out of that I'm accepting that we're different and that's ok and moving on. This isn't a black and white issue - each of us have based how we feel in our different faiths (or lack thereof) and experiences.

60 minutes : Paws wrote:Maybe it is easier...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:32:10 +0000

Author: clover
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 11:32am

Paws wrote:

Maybe it is easier to communicate it in person.

Dead right!

60 minutes : Babe wrote: LOL uhm thats a...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:27:25 +0000

Author: Paws
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 11:27am

Babe wrote:

LOL uhm thats a very big YES according to a lesbian I use to hang out with she thought I was totally insane passing up on the apparent pluses of girl-on-girl but y'know what? I wasn't offended! And when I laughed at her and told her she was the thoroughly screwed up one OMG another shocker - SHE wasn't offended Hehe sorry summerlamb I just find it abit amusing to discover that straight people are so much more protective of the gay lifestyle than any of the actual gay people I've known I guess its easier in person because you can tell straight away whether or not someone is hating on you or just has a different opinion but is still cool y'know??

I have actually always found the same thing....I've always been upfront with my gay mates as to my stance and none of them bat an eyelid. Maybe it is easier to communicate it in person.

60 minutes : Babe, I don't think I'm...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:22:17 +0000

Author: clover
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 11:22am

Babe, I don't think I'm being protective of the gay lifestyle at all, I'm just questionning some of the things that you are saying because I don't agree with you. I think that calling someone unnatural because of the person they choose to love is wrong, to me it is no different to calling a interracial couple unnatural because one is black and one is white.

I appreciate that you have your own opinion, I don't agree with you but of course you have every right to it, it just saddens me that some people still judge people based on something that I think is no big deal. There have been gay people since the beginning of time.

60 minutes : Babe, I agree... my sister understands...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:21:42 +0000

Author: LittleBug
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 11:21am

Babe, I agree... my sister understands why I think that being gay/lesbian is unnatural, given that male and female bodies were made to go together, and that male/female brains are wired in different ways to complement each other, and I believe that's what God intended to happen. She isn't offended that I disagree with the way she lives, she knows I love and support her no matter what, and she respects my opinions and I respect hers.

I also agree with having boundaries in your home... there were always lines I wouldn't cross at home as well. Such as no tattoos. My parents said that I had to wait until I was old enough to leave home and make a proper, informed decision. I decided to get a tattoo, but I'm glad they had that boundary in place, because if they hadn't, I might not have taken getting a tattoo so seriously. And I'm really glad I had so much time to think about what I wanted, because I love my tattoo now and of course my parents don't understand why I have it, but I understand their reasoning and respect that, and they still love me and support me in everything.

I'm a big fan of giving a relative amount of freedom to teenagers as well, because if you are super-strict then I think they WILL rebel, to express themselves. I was given a reasonable amount of freedom as a teenager and I think it helped me learn from mistakes and to make smarter decisions. But I'm still glad that my parents had boundaries according to their values, like if I guy comes to stay the night, he can't share your room. My parents didn't stop me from having guys over to stay, they just had some ground rules. That's the kind of parent I want to be.

60 minutes : mrsg1 wrote:I helped a friend...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:10:46 +0000

Author: lemongirl
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 11:10am

mrsg1 wrote:

I helped a friend collect donations at the Hero parade.
I couldn't get over the nerve of people that were going along to watch but didn't want to donate to 'that cause' being the Aids Foundation Blanket - which effects everyone not only gays.

Did your grandmother go to the Hero parade?

Lemongirl partners with ex-partners and kids is the norm amongst my friends and family.
DH and I getting married first is almost breaking tradition.

Actually I found the weirdest part of the hero parade was having all these straight guys leering at me and trying to 'convert' me. Icky, icky. Made me feel like an object of conquest rather than a human being.

But I totally get annoyed when HIV/AIDS is seen as being 'their' problem. And even if it is 'their' problem doesn't mean it isn't less of a problem.

Oh my grandma watched me on TV. She was really excited at the thought of having a lesbian grand-daughter. But then she was a brassy old chick who put on song and dances skits at old folks homes even though she was older than many of the residents!

60 minutes : summerlamb wrote: Babe wrote:Uhm...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:03:20 +0000

Author: Babe
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 11:03am

summerlamb wrote:

Babe wrote:

Uhm I think natural is male/female. I personally cannot for the life of me figure out why a woman would be sexually attracted to another woman or a man to another man

And many gay women won't be able to understand why you are sexually attracted to a man, does that make you un-natural?

LOL uhm thats a very big YES according to a lesbian I use to hang out with she thought I was totally insane passing up on the apparent pluses of girl-on-girl but y'know what? I wasn't offended! And when I laughed at her and told her she was the thoroughly screwed up one OMG another shocker - SHE wasn't offended Hehe sorry summerlamb I just find it abit amusing to discover that straight people are so much more protective of the gay lifestyle than any of the actual gay people I've known I guess its easier in person because you can tell straight away whether or not someone is hating on you or just has a different opinion but is still cool y'know??

I made some totally stupid-ass decisions after I moved out of home (though very little of it was connected to me 'rebelling') but I've found that now things have settled down I haven't strayed too far from the good principles my parents taught me. In fact I credit their high standards for keeping me from actually faceplanting permanently. No matter what I tried out there was always a line (usually the one that would get me killed or take me down a totally inescapable life path) that I couldn't bring myself to cross no matter how crazy I was feeling. Thats a mark of good parenting IMO

60 minutes : I helped a friend collect donations...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:57:05 +0000

Author: caliandjack
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 10:57am

I helped a friend collect donations at the Hero parade.
I couldn't get over the nerve of people that were going along to watch but didn't want to donate to 'that cause' being the Aids Foundation Blanket - which effects everyone not only gays.

Did your grandmother go to the Hero parade?

Lemongirl partners with ex-partners and kids is the norm amongst my friends and family.
DH and I getting married first is almost breaking tradition.

60 minutes : My parents were desperate for...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:37:59 +0000

Author: lemongirl
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 10:37am

My parents were desperate for me to be a lesbian to explain my weirdness.

I danced in the last hero parade and my grandmother rung up my mother hoping that I was lesbian too.

No such luck, ended up with a bloke. Although he does have a kid and an ex wife so not entirely conventional.

60 minutes : Hehe, my parents are fairly conservative,...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:28:46 +0000

Author: Hopes
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 10:28am

Hehe, my parents are fairly conservative, and I was so stunned that the never even batted an eyelash when DH and I would sit in his car at the end of our drive for hours and hours and hours talking late at night when he dropped me off. It's a long drive, hanky-panky would have been more than possible Of course, we were just talking and making out, but how where they to know? Either they had no idea, they just trusted me, or they figured it was my decision, I'm not sure, but I didn't expect it

60 minutes : My mother tried to be strict,...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:25:56 +0000

Author: caliandjack
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 9:25am

My mother tried to be strict, she would have liked me to wait till marriage before having sex, and she didn't approve of it in her house either, so I went elsewhere.
There's a reason teenagers have cars.

60 minutes : Babe wrote:Uhm I think natural...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:20:30 +0000

Author: clover
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 9:20am

Babe wrote:

Uhm I think natural is male/female. I personally cannot for the life of me figure out why a woman would be sexually attracted to another woman or a man to another man

And many gay women won't be able to understand why you are sexually attracted to a man, does that make you un-natural?

60 minutes : I find it kind of funny about...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:17:50 +0000

Author: minik8e
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 9:17am

I find it kind of funny about the strict parent thing too...my sister and I were raised in the exact same way, yet I rebelled big time and went completely and utterly off the rails at 13/14 while my sister was one of those more obedient types you talk about....

DH on the other hand, was a good boy until he turned 18 and moved out of home LOL

The one thing I don't want to do with my children is be hypocritical and DH and I have some arguments over this. I am not going to tell them not to do this or that, if I did it myself when I was younger, but I will discuss with them reasons why they shouldn't. For example - even if I wanted to instil in them the belief that they shouldn't have sex before marriage, I don't think that I am really in a position to do that, when DH and I lived together before we were married, and I was pregnant at the wedding. To me, it's just plain hypocrisy on our part in that case.

60 minutes : Lol I have to laugh at the strict...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:45:20 +0000

Author: flakesitchyfeet
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 8:45am

Lol I have to laugh at the strict upbringing rebellion thing. I think my mother wishes I had a little more sex and was a wee bit hungover a little more often before I was married!

She was all for me having a free rein and doing what teenagers do. So I went off, decided to go to a country high school, got involved with a youth group, and married my first boyfriend, a lovely Christian fella. I rebelled for sure, just in the absolute opposite way.

And at 23, having been married coming up 3years, with a baby and a mortgage, I consider myself incredibly blessed. I still wish I had the security, the guidance, and the parental influence of my husband, but if nothing else, my parents taught me exactly what I wanted and to stick to my guns!

60 minutes : Uhm I think natural is male/female....

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:19:51 +0000

Author: Babe
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 8:19am

Uhm I think natural is male/female. I personally cannot for the life of me figure out why a woman would be sexually attracted to another woman or a man to another man. It feels so 'unnatural' to me so I guess thats part of what I mean.
Also I don't think thats how we were created so yeah the rest of it is based in my christian beliefs.

I sometimes think people who are actually gay get less offended with that opinion than straight people well thats been my experience anyway... Remember its just one part of who they are that I don't agree with same as not agreeing with alcoholism/porn addiction/promiscuious behaviour/bad eating habits/etc. I'm not passing any kind of judgement on the person or their character!!

60 minutes : I can't really answer that...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:00:45 +0000

Author: Hopes
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 8:00am

I can't really answer that one, SimSam - although I wouldn't choose to sleep with another lady, I wouldn't particularly say it was 'unnatural' if I wanted to, so I guess I don't follow that line of thinking. I'd more class it in the same way I felt before I met DH - I was keen on guys, I wanted to sleep with them, but I wasn't going to. Not an easy thing to do, but a choice I made.

I'd almost feel the opposite way - sexual thoughts and feelings are pretty natural, whether they be towards the same or opposite sex. Christians feel that in some circumstances, we've been asked to choose something other than what our body wants.

That's a bit garbled, sorry, and I don't think it does a brilliant job of explaining where I come from, but I'll post it anyway (and then get to work!)

60 minutes : Can someone please tell me what...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:47:39 +0000

Author: MummyFreckle
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 7:47am

Can someone please tell me what is "natural"? There has been a lot of talk about gay relationships being "un-natural", so I am interested to know what you think "natural" actually is. Is it based on your christian beliefs?

This isnt a "dig" - I am honestly interested to know what is percieved as natural.
I guess because in my opinion - love is natural, regardless of gender.

60 minutes : I posted last night but didn't...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:22:37 +0000

Author: Babe
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 7:22am

I posted last night but didn't get to read what I missed. I agree with Paws when she says 'I HOPE my children will grow up with the same values and beliefs as my husband and I. If they don't then yes I will be disappointed but I will still love them beyond all measure.'

I would be unhappy if one of kids 'came out' as gay and I still wouldn't agree with the lifestyle but my child would already know that for starters and they would also already know that they as a person would always, absolutely be accepted by us. I don't think being inherently gay qualifies as a bad decision and I've never said it did. I don't think the lifestyle is natural thats all.

As for teenagers doing what they want regardless - well sorry ladies I think parents should expect more of their children than that!! I had a pretty controlling mum (i.e she wouldn't let me wear black coz she thought it didn't suit me) and a pretty balanced dad (he left me to my own devices as long as I respected the rules of the house) but I still stuck to the rules even when I didn't want to. I got enough freedom in other areas. Its given me a very clear example of what works and what doesn't though.

I want to be the kind of parent who has enough respect for my children to allow them to express themselves as individuals (even if I don't think they suit black ) but enough respect for myself that I don't compromise my own value system. If my kids do stuff outside that value system after they leave our home then thats their choice and to a certain extent I actually expect them to stretch their wings and experience some things for themselves so they can make their own decisions coz I mean they are individuals!! but I would want the values I've instilled in them to be a benchmark of their behaviour - example: while I might teach them to not have sex outside marriage they may choose to sleep with their g/b'friend but I would be shocked if they turned to prostitution. That may not be the most clarifying of examples but TBH its all I can think of off the top of my head since I only have a 2yo!

Speaking of Jake - I expect fairly instant obedience from him now and the consequences are fast and firm for disobedience but in balance I always make the effort to let him think for himself. If I tell him to go to bed and he runs into the lounge I'm not automatically going to assume hes running away from his bedroom and y'know 99% of the time hes going to get his pillow or teddy then reappears and goes down to bed happily. If I assume hes being naughty and realise afterwards I made a mistake I ALWAYS apologise and ask his forgiveness - being a good parent means admitting that I don't always get it right even from this young age. I want my kids to know that they can admit when they've got it wrong to me by portraying that example to them.

Anyway while I wouldn't support any bad decisions (in or out of my home), my kids themselves will always have my support.

Its really hard to make a clear point using the written word I guess some of what I've said does make me sound controlling but if you were in my head then you'd know that its not like that! I just want to find the best balance for my family - same as all of us!

60 minutes : Caitlyn is being put in a tower...

Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:42:51 +0000

Author: caitlynsmygirl
Subject: 29821
Posted: 13�November�2009 at 12:42am

Caitlyn is being put in a tower until she is 25 .
And the only way you can get to her , is by climbing her long hair .

Wait.
Thats a different story ....

60 minutes : emz wrote:Um... the screened...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:42:04 +0000

Author: Paws
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 10:42pm

emz wrote:

Um... the screened computers one isn't actually a bad idea... the internet's a pretty dodgy place.

But lol for metal detectors!

Oh yeah....on every door and window....right along with the alarm system to stop them sneaking out!

And I haven't yet mentioned Daddy on the front porch in the rocking chair with his blanket and shot gun.

Edited by Paws

60 minutes : Um... the screened computers one...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:41:13 +0000

Author: emz
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 10:41pm

Um... the screened computers one isn't actually a bad idea... the internet's a pretty dodgy place.

But lol for metal detectors!

60 minutes : emz wrote: Sorry Paws, just...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:36:28 +0000

Author: Paws
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 10:36pm

emz wrote:

Sorry Paws, just kind of bundled you in there as if to say I don't understand what you were trying to say, just like I didn't understand Babe. Not completely the same but similar IYKWIM

Oh and on the genitals thing - teens will pierce those if they want to, without your knowledge. Not a damn thing you can do about it unless you do a strip search everyday.

.

Hehehe that's ok.....there's a reason I'll never go into public speaking! Hopefully my reply made some sense!

And it will be strip searches, metal detectors, tapped phones, screened computers and drug tests everyday in our house don't ya know!!! (I AM KIDDING!!!!)

Edited by Paws

60 minutes : fattarts - our gorgeous wee children...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:19:43 +0000

Author: emz
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 10:19pm

fattarts - our gorgeous wee children will NEVER be snotty nosed teenagers! I have no idea what you're talking about

Sorry Paws, just kind of bundled you in there as if to say I don't understand what you were trying to say, just like I didn't understand Babe. Not completely the same but similar IYKWIM

Oh and on the genitals thing - teens will pierce those if they want to, without your knowledge. Not a damn thing you can do about it unless you do a strip search everyday.

HeidisMum - I've found that too (the rebelling thing). Gosh one girl that was in NZ from the US for an exchange was Lutheran (sorry don't know how to spell it), very sheltered and was never allowed to do anything. I see what she's up to on FB now she's back in the US and at uni - my god she's sleeping around, smoking pot all the time, broke and in a bad head space. All because she was never taught how to properly cope with life's pressures and the society she eventually had to integrate into. Pretty scary stuff.

60 minutes : Come join me Annie, when the kids...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:19:40 +0000

Author: caitlynsmygirl
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 10:19pm

Come join me Annie, when the kids reach their teenage years, im actually planning on escaping to a deserted Island, we can go party over their and the men can deal with the kids.
We shall return when the buggers, erm , darlings, are in their late 20s .......

60 minutes : Babe wrote:Not really but while...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:10:17 +0000

Author: fattartsrock
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 10:10pm

Babe wrote:

Not really but while they're living in my home they follow my rules. If they make a decision that wouldn't be my preference then I need to be able to step back and shut my mouth but if they make a decision that goes against a principle then I feel that as the parent I need to stand firm.

There are decisions they may make that I wouldn't i.e dying their hair a funky colour (actually I did do that LOL) or growing super-long nails or having everyone call them 'barbie' and so on but thats ok. Its only if their decisions compromise my values i.e drug use OR are decisions that I believe are more of a dangerous longterm fad i.e getting a tattoo or piercing their genitals. Its not my business what they do once they leave my home but until then they have to respect the rules of the home. We provide their food, emotional support, pay the mortgage, etc so that means the rules we make are the final word

I had alot of respect for my dads rules so when he said I could pierce my nose (one stud max) or my ears (as much as I liked at once) but while I was under his roof nothing else got pierced I complained and moaned coz I wanted my belly button done but I never disrespected him by actually doing it! As soon as I left home it was a different story but while I was under his roof he was the boss. It was actually really sweet coz he went and got me a belly chain to make do til I left home Thats kind of an example of how having firm rules about certain things doesn't mean your kids will rebel.

Abit rambly sorry am tired but yeah me and DP are the bosses in our home same as our kids will be the bosses in their homes in the future. Just because they want to do something doesn't mean I have to let them (of course to balance that out just because I think talons are hideous doesn't mean I'd make my daughter keeps her short or just because DP hates long hair on guys doesn't mean he'd make our boys have a certain haircut! Thats preference not principle.).

i do TOTALLY get where you are coming from here, however, strict rules (and we have many) dosen't mean they won't rebel, either. we tried the hardly any rules thing (which we do now, but it just makes the few real strict ones we have totally disrespected, so its lose - lose) In fact we have "kicked" teenager out, he leaves (hopefully) wednesday next week, as he refuses to live by our rules, and is making life hard for all and sundry.
They're buggers those teenagers...
Am very scared for when the little ones gat to that age...

60 minutes : Just to confirm by no means would...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:06:10 +0000

Author: BeLoved
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 10:06pm

Just to confirm by no means would I let my kids be the boss at home. I always feared my parents to a degree which I think is healthy, but because I also knew that they trusted me and also understood that I had to make my own mistakes, I tended to always keep out of trouble and I had a lot of respect for myself, they trusted me and therefore I did not want to disappoint them or loose their trust. Most of my friends felt that they were not trusted and so therefore broke all the rules.

60 minutes : minik8e wrote: Paws wrote: ...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:05:29 +0000

Author: Paws
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 10:05pm

minik8e wrote:

Paws wrote:

emz wrote:

Kate - that's how I've interpreted it too and don't know if that's the correct interpretation or not. Seems to be that way, but please correct me Babe (and Paws I think too - don't know if I'm reading yours wrong either, but it seems to me to be like Babe's POV).

I never thought that your opinion was that Paws, it was something Babe said a couple of pages back...I'll see if I can find it again...

Sorry, that was in reply to emz and I think it was fattsrocks?

60 minutes : Babe wrote:having everyone...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:02:56 +0000

Author: caitlynsmygirl
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 10:02pm

Babe wrote:

having everyone call them 'barbie' and so on but thats ok.

.

*sniggers* 14 years time "Hiiiii Im Jake, but you can call me Barbie"

60 minutes : Babe wrote:I didn't think...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 22:02:44 +0000

Author: minik8e
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 10:02pm

Babe wrote:

I didn't think I made so many comments about letting my kids know how disappointed in them I'd be but I know I'm not going to let them get away with bad decisions in my home. That doesn't mean I won't support them in many other decisions they make but if I don't stick to my personal boundaries then I sincerely believe that makes me less of a parent and a person. I plan on giving my kids the skills required to make good decisions and I certainly hope they'll make the choices that are right for them but those skills will be based in what I believe is right and good coz otherwise why do I have any opinions at all?!

I think this was the main one - or more particularly "I'm not going to let them get away with making bad decisions in my home". In this case, if one of your children comes to you (he is living at home) and says he is gay, what will you do? And that the skills to make the decisions will be based on Babe's opinions on what is right or wrong...

60 minutes : Not really but while they're...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:59:13 +0000

Author: Babe
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:59pm

Not really but while they're living in my home they follow my rules. If they make a decision that wouldn't be my preference then I need to be able to step back and shut my mouth but if they make a decision that goes against a principle then I feel that as the parent I need to stand firm.

There are decisions they may make that I wouldn't i.e dying their hair a funky colour (actually I did do that LOL) or growing super-long nails or having everyone call them 'barbie' and so on but thats ok. Its only if their decisions compromise my values i.e drug use OR are decisions that I believe are more of a dangerous longterm fad i.e getting a tattoo or piercing their genitals. Its not my business what they do once they leave my home but until then they have to respect the rules of the home. We provide their food, emotional support, pay the mortgage, etc so that means the rules we make are the final word

I had alot of respect for my dads rules so when he said I could pierce my nose (one stud max) or my ears (as much as I liked at once) but while I was under his roof nothing else got pierced I complained and moaned coz I wanted my belly button done but I never disrespected him by actually doing it! As soon as I left home it was a different story but while I was under his roof he was the boss. It was actually really sweet coz he went and got me a belly chain to make do til I left home Thats kind of an example of how having firm rules about certain things doesn't mean your kids will rebel.

Abit rambly sorry am tired but yeah me and DP are the bosses in our home same as our kids will be the bosses in their homes in the future. Just because they want to do something doesn't mean I have to let them (of course to balance that out just because I think talons are hideous doesn't mean I'd make my daughter keeps her short or just because DP hates long hair on guys doesn't mean he'd make our boys have a certain haircut! Thats preference not principle.).

60 minutes : Paws wrote: emz wrote:Kate...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:58:08 +0000

Author: minik8e
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:58pm

Paws wrote:

I never thought that your opinion was that Paws, it was something Babe said a couple of pages back...I'll see if I can find it again...

60 minutes : High pink font ? eh ? I believe...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:54:52 +0000

Author: caitlynsmygirl
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:54pm

High pink font ?
eh ?

I believe that media and society can have some influence on you , but YOU are responsible for who you become .

And in my kids case, they are respsonsible for it, and me , as I said earlier , if they are swayed by a pop star , rather than me , then I haven't done the parenting job I wish to do .

Edited by caitlynsmygirl

60 minutes : Just had to say of all my friends...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:48:07 +0000

Author: BeLoved
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:48pm

Just had to say of all my friends who had parents that told them what they should think, how they should dress, who they could be friends with and when they were allowed to have BF's, have sex etc. every single one went of the rails as soon as they could and when I say off the rails I mean serious alcohol & drug addictions, in trouble with the law etc. etc. and most live on the opposite side of the world from their parents now and don't have much of a relationship with them.

I was bought up knowing that my parents trusted that I would make sensible decisions without enforcing what these decisions "should" be, yes I made a few mistakes and wore a few short skirts and maybe even a boob tube but all in all I turned out a dam sight better than the ones who had no freedom to make their own decisions and mistakes. I intend to do the same, love & trust my children, allow them to form there own opinions and be there for them when they need me no matter what......posing for Penthouse, gay or even becoming a penthouse pet, lesbian school teacher!

ETA: I am talking about teenagers here. Oh and that I went to an all girls Catholic school and think this also played a part in some of the rebellion that went on.

Edited by HeidisMum

60 minutes : nods head in understanding

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:47:42 +0000

Author: fattartsrock
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:47pm

*nods head in understanding*

60 minutes : emz wrote:Kate - that's...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:44:06 +0000

Author: Paws
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:44pm

It is an incorrect interpretation. As I said in my post on the previous page....I HOPE my children will grow up with the same values and beliefs as my husband and I. If they don't then yes I will be disappointed but I will still love them beyond all measure.

I suspect I can safely say that Babe is probably thinking along the same lines.

However, if we (my husband and I) did not do all we could to pass on the teachings and love of God and our faith to our children then we would not be carrying out the promise we made to God. In the end though, what our children do with that will be up to them.

Edited by Paws

60 minutes : emz wrote:Kate - that's...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:41:08 +0000

Author: fattartsrock
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:41pm

me too... Im sure thats not how you meant it to come across, but it sure looks that way.... But at least it isn't in metre high pink font, lololol

60 minutes : emz wrote:Kate - that's...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:39:58 +0000

Author: fattartsrock
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:39pm

me too....

60 minutes : Kate - that's how I've...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:36:34 +0000

Author: emz
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:36pm

Kate - that's how I've interpreted it too and don't know if that's the correct interpretation or not. Seems to be that way, but please correct me Babe (and Paws I think too - don't know if I'm reading yours wrong either, but it seems to me to be like Babe's POV).

60 minutes : Good call Blondy! (although don't...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:34:42 +0000

Author: emz
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:34pm

Good call Blondy! (although don't say that to BooBoo, she's going to see her in Oz next week!)

Yeah my kids can dress however the hell they want to when they're not under my roof, but like Paws I won't have my daughter dressed in mini skirts etc - I don't dress like that.

But I don't think labelling it as 'slutty' helps either - that's the problem: labelling things/people. The kids pick up on that so easily, and they assume, because they don't have the ability to compute it like adults, that all people who dress like that act like a 'slut' which is horrible. Just like if you say something about a gay person/rubbish collector (lol)/christian/muslim/non-married couple living in 'sin' they will take that on board.

Remember our children are like sieves - yes shelter them to an extent until they are mature enough to cope on their own, but let them find out what is out there in life so that they can be happy, make others happy and, if you swing that way, please God.

60 minutes : Wow, what a thread - I just read...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:32:19 +0000

Author: minik8e
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:32pm

Wow, what a thread - I just read all 10 pages....

I have no problem with a teacher being gay, living in sin heheh or whatever. I just want them to be a good teacher. DH and I already have "discussions" about this, as I would like the girls to go to the local Catholic school (even though we are not Catholic - it was the school I went to) for primary and secondary school. DH is against this because he doesn't want them to be taught religious education. I can understand that. However, I am looking solely at the quality of education offered at those schools, as opposed to the state schools, and would rather them have an excellent quality of education, then just a good one. And yes we are starting these discussions early, I think it will take the whole 5 years to agree on somewhere LOL

Babe - I just want to clarify something. The impression that I'm getting about letting your children make their own decisions, is that basically you will let them make their own decisions providing that you agree with it. Have I got that completely wrong? I'm not sure if I'm misreading your posts....

60 minutes : I would never disown my daughter...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:19:14 +0000

Author: blondy
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:19pm

I would never disown my daughter for being gay, but listening to Britney is another matter entirely (and that's because of the music btw, not the clothes!) *says the westie*

60 minutes : Paws wrote: lilfatty wrote: ...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:13:34 +0000

Author: lilfatty
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:13pm

Paws wrote:

lilfatty wrote:

Paws wrote:

lilfatty wrote:

Paws wrote:

I hope I will teach her to respect herself and that she doesn't have to dress like a slut

Argh I hate that word with a passion .. and who decides how a person like that dresses? Just because a person dresses in a way that you don't deem appropriate does not automatically mean they lead a promiscuous (sp) life or do not respect themselves.

Again sorry if it's old fashioned but I don't see why I need to have a pre-teen dressing in mini-skirts and boob tubes showing lots of flesh and wearing make-up just because Britney Spears or Miley Cyrus does, or wearing Playboy tops because they are meant to be "cool".

Britney Spears is an adult .. I think you would teach your child that she can dress like that when she is an adult and paying her own bills should she choose too

She might be but that doesn't stop her influencing teens or younger does it? And it doesn't stop the kids pushing the parents for the merchandise and many of those parents give in.

And quite frankly I hope my child will realise that even when she is an adult she doesn't need to dress like that to be happy.

As I said .. my child will be taught she can choose to dress anyway she pleases when she is an adult, until then she dresses how I see fit.

Im also pretty sure, Britney doesnt slob around the house in her "work clothes" .. ive seen many pictures of her in gym gear. I want Isabelle to understand that Britney has work clothes just like Mummy has work clothes and when Britney isnt working she wears comfy clothes just like Mummy.

60 minutes : lilfatty wrote:I would for...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:11:50 +0000

Author: kiwisj
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:11pm

lilfatty wrote:

I would for the record, like to state that I would prefer my children be taught by the a gay muslim playboy bunny than a teacher who would choose to write in pink felt tip in writing half a metre high because they thought my children were idiots and didnt understand what they were trying to tell them.

60 minutes : Haha lilfatty!! I would probably...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:11:02 +0000

Author: LittleBug
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:11pm

Haha lilfatty!!

I would probably homeschool my kids if their teachers wrote in pink felt tips, fullstop. *new controversial statement* I just don't like pink all that much.

60 minutes : Aww Sam, I dont think you offended...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:07:27 +0000

Author: lilfatty
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:07pm

Aww Sam, I dont think you offended anyone. Your far too "squishy hearted" for that!

I would for the record, like to state that I would prefer my children be taught by the a gay muslim playboy bunny than a teacher who would choose to write in pink felt tip in writing half a metre high because they thought my children were idiots and didnt understand what they were trying to tell them.

60 minutes : lilfatty wrote: Paws wrote: ...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:04:07 +0000

Author: Paws
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 9:04pm

lilfatty wrote:

Paws wrote:

lilfatty wrote:

Paws wrote:

I hope I will teach her to respect herself and that she doesn't have to dress like a slut

Britney Spears is an adult .. I think you would teach your child that she can dress like that when she is an adult and paying her own bills should she choose too

60 minutes : Everything to do with differences...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:59:24 +0000

Author: LittleBug
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:59pm

Everything to do with differences in parenting pushes people's buttons, SimSam... I hope no one is taking anything personally in this thread. I don't think anything has been directed to anyone in particular, which is pretty refreshing for a 10-pager!! Lol

Hugs for all the mummies, I think it's great that everyone is so passionate about their beliefs.

60 minutes : Paws wrote: lilfatty wrote: ...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:57:56 +0000

Author: lilfatty
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:57pm

Paws wrote:

lilfatty wrote:

Paws wrote:

I hope I will teach her to respect herself and that she doesn't have to dress like a slut

Britney Spears is an adult .. I think you would teach your child that she can dress like that when she is an adult and paying her own bills should she choose too

60 minutes : I just wanted to apologise if...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:54:44 +0000

Author: MummyFreckle
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:54pm

I just wanted to apologise if I have offended anyone, or been a bit to direct with my posts. I am not going to comment any further in this thread, its clearly a topic that pushes my buttons and I dont want to get into a mud slinging match.

Edited by SimSam

60 minutes : lilfatty wrote: Paws wrote:I...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:53:42 +0000

Author: Paws
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:53pm

lilfatty wrote:

Paws wrote:

I hope I will teach her to respect herself and that she doesn't have to dress like a slut

60 minutes : Paws wrote:I hope I will teach...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:51:21 +0000

Author: lilfatty
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:51pm

Paws wrote:

I hope I will teach her to respect herself and that she doesn't have to dress like a slut

60 minutes : haha. interesting chat ladies. My...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:46:37 +0000

Author: lizzle
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:46pm

haha.

interesting chat ladies.

My step-sister is gay, and great with the kids. her gf scares them a wee bit, but hey she scares me a bit too. She's lovely but a tad overbearing. but they are just t and e. i never think of them as "gay couple". i remember someone asking T if she would go to the gay and lesbian mardi gras, and she retorted "as soon as you go to the straight parade". she's never seen a reason to "celebrate" being gay, she just is.

I would have no problem with it, and until people mentioned it, hadn't even considreed it.

As for keeping your kids away from influeneces. I work for a community who does this to an extreme, Initially i thought the kids would be unhappy, but they really aren't. BUT i do feel like by not allowing them a choice, they kinda fall into their lifestyle by "default" - they don't know of another rather than truly believeing it....do i make sense? But listening to a group of year 9 kids call each other "sluts" and when they were pulled up on it, it becoming incredibly obvious NO ONE knew what the word meant - refreshing.

The christian thing -I also taught at a christian school last year - I am not christian but I loved it. I once asked the bible teacher how she dealt with homosexuality. she said. Jesus taught us that yes it is a sin, but he catagorised it as the same kind of sin as adultery, stealing, and....something else (i can't remember), and we commonly accept those. He taught us more importatnly that it was so important to love each other. so that's what we do. we are all guilty of sin, but God loves us regardless"

I always adored her. she dealt with my dumb ass questions for a start.

i would hoever, be a bit hestitant about a teacher who was homophobic- mainly cause if my child confided in them, i would hope that the answer wouldn't be "YOU WILL BURN IN HELL". In fact, anyone who had really strong views that were imaprted on my kid, basically in a manner "I AM RIGHT< YOU ARE WRONG" I would have a problem with. All about tolerance in our household.

teacher posing for playboy. I do have a problem with it. I am a teacher. i do't even put picture of me drinking on facebook, let alone with "the boys" hanging out. It just feels fundamentally wrong, regardless of being entirely legal

60 minutes : emz wrote: I do believe that...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:38:51 +0000

Author: Paws
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:38pm

emz wrote:

I do believe that others are entitled to their opinions, I just can't understand where they are coming from in this day and age. Some of you said you'd be happy to live centuries ago - well we're not and we adjust our lifestyles as we evolve. I for one am glad we have a generally more open society these days.

Maybe we don't live centuries ago, maybe society has changed and evolved but that doesn't mean it's necessarily evolved for the best. It's doesn't mean that we have to condone teen sex, sex outside of marriage, drinking, drugs and promiscuous behavior being flaunted on our TV screens and in our magazines.

I know I can't shelter my child from all the influences, I know they are going to come anyway. I just hope that I will have taught her by then that you don't have to follow the majority of society to be happy. I hope I will teach her that marriage is still something to valued and cherished. I hope I will teach her to respect herself and that she doesn't have to dress beyond her years or like a slut, that she doesn't have to fool around in the backseat of her car to be happy within herself.

I hope that she will look at her parents lives, we have been far from perfect, and understand how much happier we are since we stopped living to make ourselves happy and seeking pleasure elsewhere and started living as God wanted us to.

60 minutes : Kelly - I think from this thread...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:37:46 +0000

Author: lilfatty
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:37pm

Kelly - I think from this thread .. her fiance is a porn person, so he probably knows someone who knows someone?

Id say they pay well, although they may not pay well for some complete unknown.

Emz - fair enough if she broke some rule, then she needs to be "punished" .. but i think the thread was more along the lines of are you as a Mum ok with your child being taught by someone like this, not do we agree with the code.

60 minutes : LOL Pepsi!!!

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:37:21 +0000

Author: LittleBug
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:37pm

LOL Pepsi!!!

60 minutes : fattartsrock wrote:The best...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:36:24 +0000

Author: LittleBug
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:36pm

fattartsrock wrote:

The best you can do is arm them with the knowledge and respect to let them make their own choices (within reason) that sits within your families guidelines....

That is exactly what I think.

60 minutes : lol Yumi. I LOVE It!!!!

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:35:18 +0000

Author: fattartsrock
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:35pm

lol Yumi. I LOVE It!!!!

60 minutes : Bahaha I actually think it might...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:35:07 +0000

Author: emz
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:35pm

Bahaha I actually think it might have been Australian Penthouse (because the title of the doco was 'teachers pet' and they call them penthouse pet's.)

I think they pays pretty good too - am just going by what you can make by being a stripper (not me lol one of my friends was for a couple of years) and you'd get a lot more than that if you got a good spread (excuse the pun )

Pepsi - too funny!

Edited by emz

60 minutes : Nothing wrong with Gay teachers.....

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:34:40 +0000

Author: pepsi
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:34pm

Nothing wrong with Gay teachers.. Mr Garrison is cool. And I'm sure they don't all bring their gay lovers to school to show the class

60 minutes : I have one question...two actually.. How...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:30:59 +0000

Author: caitlynsmygirl
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:30pm

I have one question...two actually..

How did she get approached by Play Boy, and ....do they pay well ?
times are tight ya know,.....

jokes!

60 minutes : Babe wrote:Changed my mind...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:27:32 +0000

Author: pomikiwi
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:27pm

Babe wrote:

Changed my mind on sharing that

Agree with you Hopes well put

Mmm Pomikiwi if it wasn't brought into school or if my kids didn't find out about it through any other avenue (remembering small-town-itis ) then it wouldn't be a problem. Maybe check out the next post of mine after the one you quoted...

Of course, I know gossip goes around, but still i'm sure the teacher wouldn't wouldn't use that as a cue to talk about what they get upto, lol!

60 minutes : LittleBug wrote: Lilfatty,...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:26:38 +0000

Author: lilfatty
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:26pm

LittleBug wrote:

Lilfatty, I would definitely give my opinion to my child, that I disagree with their decision if they tell me they are gay... but would I stop loving them, or kick them out of my home, or emotionally abuse them, or hate their partner, or any of that? Definitely not. I don't expect my kids to agree with me on everything, but I will still let them know what my own values are. They can disagree if they want to, but I will teach them what I think is best for them (just like any good parent would).

Yes - My Mum taught me that God was a figment of my imagination, im sure she thought she was doing her best imparting HER views .. it however didnt change mine, hence the reason my opinion isnt going to change the fact that my child is gay. (if they turn out to be)

60 minutes : I'd just like to say (while...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:26:03 +0000

Author: fattartsrock
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:26pm

I'd just like to say (while donning my fame proof suit) Good luck wiht not "allowing" your children to be exposed to or do or whatever when they become teenagers....
We too have very strict boundries/rules and expected standards of behaviour and I think I can very safely say, where theres a will, theres a way... unless you are planning on being with them for every breath, you can't really keep alot of it away. The best you can do is arm them with the knowledge and respect to let them make their own choices (within reason) that sits within your families guidelines....

I say this because no matter how hard I have tried to be at home every living minute that the snotager is here, and how clear we have been about no sex no girls here when we are not etc and good discussions about why and how we feel, those of you who are on my facebook will already know how revolted I was to hear (at tea time yesterday) about the "good times" had in MY bed if you get my drift....

I also caught him in bed with someone a few weeks back and was absolutely recolted, angry upset and dissapointed cos its not somethign we want/allow in our home. Also my kids saw, too.

The nusic we dont like, agree with etc, the fashion, the friends, everything, like i said good luck, cos unless you are planning on handcuffing yourself to them 24/7 its gonna get in somehow....

And Yes, I am sending my kids to the catholic school, I will take them to church, I will try to lead by example (note "try", lol) but a tthe end of the day,I do recognise that when they become teens, this might be somethign they question or don't want, and thats totally up to them.
I like to think of it as "giving them foundations" and lettign them grow into their own people.

Edited by fattartsrock

60 minutes : Just thinking - if your child...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:21:19 +0000

Author: emz
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:21pm

Just thinking - if your child did come home and tell you they were gay - surely it would be more important at that time (when they're feeling a bit confused, worried about reactions, brave maybe for finally telling someone) to tell them how much you love them and admire their courage for being comfortable enough to share such a big thing with you, rather than telling them that you don't believe what they feel is right? Probably would be very hurtful if your parents turned round and told you that one huge part of your life is wrong in their eyes (esp when gay teens/adults have a much higher rate of depression and suicide than their straight counterparts). Just a thought anyway, if it gets even one person to think about supporting their kids before putting across their own viewpoints then that would be pretty cool.

60 minutes : Babe wrote: :pondering: this...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:15:51 +0000

Author: emz
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:15pm

Babe wrote:

:pondering: this thread is making me think abit...

I don't think I have a problem with a teacher that happens to be gay, or muslim or obese for that matter. I think for me its more how out there they are with it IYKWIM? If they're going to be around my child for so much of the day I want to be sure they aren't going to be pro-active about their lifestyle/beliefs. Its not their job and yes while they are individuals, if they're in a teaching role I would want them to put their specific beliefs, etc to the background. I'm totally happy to discuss homosexuality, religions, eating habits, etc with my children, give them all the facts and go from there but I don't want any of that in their faces all day...

Does that make any sense?? Still processing that train of thought anyway...

Perfect sense Babe, that's what I'm trying to say. Most respectable teachers do not let their private lives influence their teaching in any negative way. In a public school, religion does not come into it. I think the mark of a good teacher is when they portray the values of the school community, which is why they should have been hired in the first place.

It seems a few of you who are a bit worried about gay teachers/atheist teachers etc have had pretty out there experiences. I guess I'm lucky in that I haven't had much like that, I've had a pretty rounded education with no teacher standing out with forcing their own views onto me, so maybe that's why I'm not put-off by it? I don't know.

I have taught with a gay man who drove me nuts with how out there he was with it. He told me after 5 mins 'in case you can't tell, I'm gay' then asked me dodgy questions about how sexually frustrated I was while DH (then DP) was away for 6 months! To say that to a colleauge is disturbing, and I can only guess that the reason he was a reliever and not a permanent teacher (had been relieving for many years with no luck) was his over-the-top attitude (and way too personal, way too quickly). If that's the only experience I'd had with gay people, I'd probably be scared off them too. Thankfully I've had great experiences with all sorts of religions, sexual orientations and races. I'm starting to think I'm very lucky with that.

I do believe that others are entitled to their opinions, I just can't understand where they are coming from in this day and age. Some of you said you'd be happy to live centuries ago - well we're not and we adjust our lifestyles as we evolve. I for one am glad we have a generally more open society these days.

Oh and on the marijuana topic, my family has recently done a lot of research on this as a close family member is in terrible pain (has been for nearly 30 years) and can barely get out of bed. He's on morphine 24/7, can't work or do anything he loves anymore. All of the research we've come across (and a lot from the states since some states introduced medical marijuana, and the netherlands) has shown there is no drug even close to marijuana in its medicinal properties. Now I'm not condoning it for Joe Bloggs down the road to get high all the time but I would prefer this particular family member to use that (which he is planning on doing as soon as we can work out the best way for him to take it as he can't smoke it due to a torn oesophagus) rather than being on morphine 24/7 and using alcohol (which is a worse depressant and not good for someone whose been on anti-D's for 30 years) to get to sleep at night as he's generally writhing in pain til about 5 in the morning.

Annnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyyway... back on topic

1) selling your body (which is what nude posing is) shows lack of self-respect (think of it as public viewing of things like this is fulfilling a need by the woman to feel wanted/attractive/loved)
2) no matter what you feel about it, the code of ethics for NZ registered teachers prevents teachers from doing this sort of thing so she nees to be reprimanded. Whether you agree with that or not, it doesn't really matter, she should be punished in some form (as a teacher, you agree to live by that code of ethics and have to go through an advice and guidance programme to prove you meet those requirements, then maintain them). It's a very blatant disregard for the ethics, when they're pretty obvious at all stages of your teaching career.

60 minutes : Hopes wrote:At the same time,...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:14:09 +0000

Author: LittleBug
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:14pm

Hopes wrote:

At the same time, I'm sure there have been cases the other way round - I seem to recall hearing some horror stories about religeous instruction classes too. I guess the moral is that it's really important for teachers to realise different kids / kids parents will have different points of view, and that they should respect these (without compromising their own, of course).

I have heard horror stories both ways as well! A girl on my bus was telling me that a teacher at her school (it was a Catholic School, our school didn't have religious education) told her that she was evil and was going to go to hell. What the!? No one has any right to say that to anyone, let alone a teacher.

Lilfatty, I would definitely give my opinion to my child, that I disagree with their decision if they tell me they are gay... but would I stop loving them, or kick them out of my home, or emotionally abuse them, or hate their partner, or any of that? Definitely not. I don't expect my kids to agree with me on everything, but I will still let them know what my own values are. They can disagree if they want to, but I will teach them what I think is best for them (just like any good parent would).

60 minutes : ETA: double postEdited by LittleBug...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:09:43 +0000

Author: LittleBug
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:09pm

ETA: double post

Edited by LittleBug

60 minutes : Changed my mind on sharing that...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:09:36 +0000

Author: Babe
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:09pm

Changed my mind on sharing that

Agree with you Hopes well put

Mmm Pomikiwi if it wasn't brought into school or if my kids didn't find out about it through any other avenue (remembering small-town-itis ) then it wouldn't be a problem. Maybe check out the next post of mine after the one you quoted...

Edited by Babe

60 minutes : LB - That is actually a hard one,...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:05:42 +0000

Author: lilfatty
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:05pm

LB - That is actually a hard one, I would explain to them what I believe and why, but I wouldnt "ban" them from the activity if they chose to participate (and they were of an age old enough to choose for themselves) - for example if my kids came up to me and said "Mum im gay" I wouldnt say, I dont believe what you feel is right.

Like someone earlier said (im sorry i cant recall who), they are people in their own rights, not mini versions of me so I cant expect them to have all the same beliefs as me - just as I dont have the same beliefs as my Mum.

60 minutes : Babe wrote: :pondering: this...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:05:25 +0000

Author: pomikiwi
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 8:05pm

Ok how to put this, do all the 'straight' teachers tell you or your children ALL DAY long about what they get upto in their private lives? Swingers, wife swappers, drug or alcohol addicts, infidelity. NO they don't. We do not know what goes on in a teacher''s life once they are home. And, as long as they are good teachers thats all that matters. And so I don't see why anyone would really care about gay influences in a school because most of the time know one would even know!

Edited by pomikiwi

60 minutes : Yea, I've got a friend, LittleBug,...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:57:45 +0000

Author: Hopes
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 7:57pm

Yea, I've got a friend, LittleBug, who got really picked on by a teacher because he mentioned he didn't believe in evolution - actually mocked in front of the class. He was being bullied at the time anyway, and you can imagine that that didn't make it any better. I get all hot under the collar when I think about it!

At the same time, I'm sure there have been cases the other way round - I seem to recall hearing some horror stories about religeous instruction classes too. I guess the moral is that it's really important for teachers to realise different kids / kids parents will have different points of view, and that they should respect these (without compromising their own, of course).

60 minutes : cuppatea wrote:If only my elbow...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:55:54 +0000

Author: jano1
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 7:55pm

cuppatea wrote:

If only my elbow wasn't broken and it wouldn't take me 5 yrs to type a reply

So I will just say

I don't care what teachers do as long as they can teach

I've been working and came home to read this thread with great interest. You (and a few others on here- you know who you are ) have summed up my feelings exactly

60 minutes : If only my elbow wasn't broken...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:53:29 +0000

Author: cuppatea
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 7:53pm

If only my elbow wasn't broken and it wouldn't take me 5 yrs to type a reply

So I will just say

I don't care what teachers do as long as they can teach

60 minutes : lilfatty wrote:Oh and im pretty...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:50:27 +0000

Author: LittleBug
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 7:50pm

lilfatty wrote:

Oh and im pretty sure God loves everybody .. so I try to bring my children up to be just as loving no matter what the other person has chosen to do with their life as it is not my place to judge

Exactly. But surely if something came up that you disagreed with, you would give your child advice about it.

There is a huge difference between loving someone and agreeing with their opinions. You don't have to agree with everything the person does in order to love them.

I agree that it's unlikely that anything will come up, if a teacher were gay/Muslim/pro-abortion/pro-marijuana... etc. because in general teachers keep things like that private, which is appropriate. But there are cases when that standard isn't upheld. For example, there were several teachers at my old school who made it well known that they were atheist and would take every opportunity to criticise anyone with faith in anything. Which I feel is innappropriate, just like it would be for a teacher to try and reform a classroom to faith. It should be about tolerance and respect, but it isn't always. It's only in that situation that I would want to discuss things with my child, to answer questions, etc. Which is why I wouldn't have a problem with a gay teacher at all, just like I wouldn't if someone was Muslim/a smoker/anything else that I would be wary of.

60 minutes : RunningT wrote: LittleSal...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:50:24 +0000

Author: pomikiwi
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 7:50pm

RunningT wrote:

LittleSal wrote:

What? He didn't turn you all into raging gays???

That can't be right!!!!!!

Okay so I have discovered something new today.

There is gay, openly gay and ragingly gay....

This thread is magic

lol,we can always count on you T!

Edited by pomikiwi

60 minutes : Hopes - the comment was not intended...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:40:12 +0000

Author: lilfatty
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 7:40pm

Hopes - the comment was not intended to you .. just my brain heading off and wondering out loud

I think teachers just teach the curriculum, I dont recall any of my teachers discussing their private lives with the class, so I doubt muslims, gays or any other teachers are really openly influencing the kids on their chosen way of life.

I also believe that they cant even discuss God in schools these days .. so I cant imagine them discussing their sexual activity with their students.

Did I miss some name calling and pointing .. ??

Oh and im pretty sure God loves everybody .. so I try to bring my children up to be just as loving no matter what the other person has chosen to do with their life as it is not my place to judge which is why I would prefer they are not taught by closed minded bigots who may teach them otherwise.

60 minutes : LOL this thread has become a lively...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:37:27 +0000

Author: LittleBug
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 7:37pm

LOL this thread has become a lively debate about all sorts of things!!

I just want to make sure that you all remember, I said I WOULDN'T pull my kids out of school if they had a gay teacher, I would just be wary. As in, I would try to discuss with my child about relationships, according to what I believe, if anything came up. Which I would also do with muslim teachers, or if there was a fat teacher and that raised issues then I would discuss obesity with my child. I don't think that is so terrible.

I do not think gay people (or people that use marijuana or are muslim or any of those things) are bad people, just because I don't agree with the way they live their life. Nor do I think of myself as any better than them. I'm just trying to live differently, according to what I believe. They are entitled to believe what they want to believe. I love and accept all kinds of people.

I have not put anyone down, and I would be offended to be called a homophobe, because as Hopes said, I neither am afraid of nor dislike gay/lesbian people. I simply have a different opinion than them about one aspect of life. All of my gay/lesbian friends/family can understand that. My friends also have different views about abortion, pre-marital sex and many other things than I do. But that does not mean that we can't be friends, or that I think that I am better than any of them, and I hope I didn't give that impression.

I still maintain that I wouldn't be comfortable with someone posing for a porn magazine to be teaching my children, because that isn't about a person's private life at all, it is very public. If the woman in question wants to pose for playboy, then fine, but I don't think that it's appropriate for a teacher (who is a role model for young girls and boys).

Edited by LittleBug

60 minutes : Have been following this thread,...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:36:52 +0000

Author: blondy
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 7:36pm

Have been following this thread, and I have to say I am quite surprised at people's opinions! I guess I am surrounded by family and friends that are generally very accepting and open to almost anything (as long as people aren't hurting themselves/others)....and maybe this makes me a little naive, but I honestly didn't realise that a proportion of people out there still feel so strongly about not having gay teachers teaching thier kids (for example).

Anyway, looking back on it, my 1st teacher in primary school was gay. She lived with another teacher at the school; both were fantastic ladies, and at the time would have been in their 50's. Both have sadly passed away now.....but even at the time (early 80's), Mum told us that they lived together, but my sis and I always just interpreted that as being just that - 2 matronly ladies that were friends and lived together. Nothing else would have crossed our minds (although that was obviously a more innocent time!). Mum didn't agree with the gay lifestyle, but she loved those 2 teachers, because they were so good at their jobs. Their sexuality would never have come up, just like it wouldn't for a heterosexual person in the same situation.

At high school, I also had a few (openly) gay teachers, at an all-girls school. For the most part they were great teachers. The only time any of their sexualities came up was when one teacher had moved to another (private girls) school, and once those parents found out she was gay, she was (encouraged? made?) to leave, and susequently came back to our school. And even then it wasn't openly discussed, just word got out amongst the students. I can't remember anyone not being supportive (and this was at a catty girls school!)

On the original topic, (and as an intending teacher-to-be), I think the woman was an idiot to pose for playboy, when the expectations of the teachers council are so explicit. As many people have said, it's just one of those things that is expected of you of you decide to become a teacher. IMO, posing nude/nearly nude in a public magazine does not make you a good role model. Great that she's comfortable with her body and sexuality, but there are many more ways of expressing that than playboy

60 minutes : Thanks Hopes I guess I'm...

Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:33:13 +0000

Author: Babe
Subject: 29821
Posted: 12�November�2009 at 7:33pm

Thanks Hopes I guess I'm going on the 'type' of gay people I've known - they're often full-on, out-there, over-playing every aspect of the gay thing (the people I've known, thats not a generalisation of all people who happen to be gay). I've loved them dearly and had alot of fun with them but wouldn't want that in my kids face all day every day. Having friends like that is different because it's in the family sphere and its not 9-3 mon-fri.

LOL Flissty gets convuluted ae

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60 minutes : lol Yumi. I LOVE It!!!!

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