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Jay_R View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 April 2008 at 12:01pm
On Saturday we were at a birthday party for one of Joshie's wee friends (2nd Birthday), and to cut a long story short there was a toy helicopter that both Joshua and another little boy wanted to play with. The other boy was handed it, and I just assumed that after a bit of time the mother of the other boy would encourage her boy to share and let Joshie have a turn with it.

Well, it turned into nastiness, the other kid was showing it to the birthday girl, Joshua took his chance and made a grab for it, and they ended up really fighting over it, resulting in Joshua scratching the other boy. Both me and the other mother dashed to the scene of the scrap, she got there first, yelled at Joshua for scratching, then gave the toy back to her son.

At the time I was mortified that Joshua had "attacked" the other boy, and I apologised a couple of times to his mother. Now however I think that the mother should have encouraged her son to share with Joshua, and should definitely not have yelled at my son when it was obvious I was about to intervene.

Maybe I'm just feeling protective and angry because she reprimanded my son, when really they both should have been....

But I kinda want to say something to her along the lines of "your kid should have been encouraged to share a toy that was clearly a bit of a contentious issue", and "yell at my kid again and I'll slap you"

Should I say something? Or should I just leave it.... Advice please!
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CuriousG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CuriousG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 12:08pm
I would say something. We had a group of kids at our place on the weekend for Char's birthday and I was very careful to make sure they shared. In fact, she and another boy were fighting over something so I made her give it to him for a while. She was fine with it and found something else. If it is someone you are going to be in contact with reguarly, I would definitely get it out in the open.

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MrsMojo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrsMojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 12:14pm
Oh that's awful.

I had a similar situation recently where Michaela and a friend got into a scrap over a toy - I was so embarrased (although I later learned that the boy she fought with bullies the other kids in our coffee group and the other kids usually just take it so I was quite proud that my little girl stood up for herself). The main difference though was that my friend and I were on the same team and we ended up confiscating the toy from both of them and ignoring the tantrums that followed.

If I were put in the same situation as you, and hadn't said something at the time, I would be inclined to let it go. Her parenting style in this instance may leave a lot to be desired but she is not likely to appreciate (or even accept it) if you mention it, especially after the event.

I had a friend whose son was a bully, it was obvious to everyone except the parents, even when it was pointed out to then by friends, family and teachers - he could do no wrong.... until he got a younger sibling and treated the sibling the same way - suddenly the parents saw what we'd seen all along and they had to deal with it (gotta love karma)

Maybe if it happens again you could say something like *childs name* I think it's Joshie's turn to play with the helicopter now since you've had it for the past 30 mins (whatever).
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Roksana View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roksana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 12:35pm
I would have said some thing. I always make sure that Zaara shared her toys or what ever and def do not scream at other kids!! It is the duty of the parent.

I would def not sit back and see some one scream at my child!!!

I dont know who she was and if you can talk to her again abt this, but you could say to her that I did not appreciate you screaming at my child regardless of the situation, in the future if you have a probem with my toddler (GOD as if they understand but to do and not to do at this age)...you come talk to me.

I would...I dont know abt others!!

Edited by Roksana

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Jay_R View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jay_R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 12:47pm
I wish I'd said something at the time, but I was so busy being mortified about the scratches on the other kid's nose that I didn't really think about it til later.

She is someone that I see rarely - from my ante-natal group and we don't really catch up all that often anymore. But I feel really strongly about it, so was thinking I might send an email. We've got Joshie's birthday party next weekend, and they'll be there and I don't want any awkwardness for anyone....

It's really hard to call it though, as Joshua can seen a bit of a bully at times as he is quite a bit bigger than most of the other kids his age. But is a very sweet little boy, and will always share, hates making people sad and I really feel hurt that she would yell at him and not consider that her boy was somewhat at fault too.
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Bizzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 1:12pm
when our kids are hurt then reason can go out the window. if you saw some other kid hurt joshie You may yell too...your first reaction isnt always the best!

As to the sharing thing...i am in two minds re this one as sometimes i dont think making kids share is really that important or helpful, esp at that age...

and i dont know about talking to the other mum after the fact either. I would maybe just play it by ear when you see her next and if you think something similar is going to happen then step in before hand...esp if it is in your territory cause that gives you more rights too...   

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Jay_R View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jay_R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 1:22pm
Joshie was hurt, the other boy actually physically wrestled him to the ground, and it was then that Joshua scratched him. But I do understand what you are getting at Bizzy. The other mother reacted to what she saw, rightly or wrongly.

But why would you think it not important to make them share a toy they both clearly wanted to play with? Is it survival of the fittest at two years old, or first in first served? I disagree, but then this is the first time I've been confronted with this kind of situation, as the other kids we socialise with are all encouraged to share. In what situations is it ok for kids not to share, in your experience? And I'm absolutely not trying to get at you, I would really like to know as I'm all new to this kind of thing.
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Shorty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shorty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 1:24pm
The others do word it so well.
Reading the other posts they make sense. It has been and gone just let it ride.
If for whatever reason it happens again step in and sort it out then and there.

If we are home and T has friends over, he will always let the other kids go first, then he will play with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roksana Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 1:28pm
I partly agree with you Deb that if we saw our kid hurt we would react in a similar fashion. But I found that once when Zaara got pushed by a kid at day care infront of me, I held Zaara and told the other kid that "that wasnt very nice is it? look Zaara is crying!! we dont push people do we hun?" And the teachers were there and they said I handled it very well.

Not that the kid would change his ways and stop pushing others but that made me feel better and Zaara stopped crying too.

Dont get me wrong that is just me tho. Every one is different but I dont see the logic in yelling at a 2 yr old, they dont understand/care anyways.

But Deb is right! see what happens next time, if you want to let this incident go.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote susieq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 1:36pm
I would say something too
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Rachael21 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rachael21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 1:39pm
I would have said something at the time but I wouldn't bother saying anything now.

Maybe because Jack used to be the bully I don't just jump in yelling if someone hurts Jack. If the parent is around I let them deal with it, if not I just say we don't hit/bite/scratch because it hurts Jack. Same goes if I see any kids hurting each other. I don't even yell if its Jack hurting Caprece so I think you should definately be mad she yelled.

Most 2 year olds won't share on their own but do when encouraged so I do think it was irresponsible of her to just give it to her child. If she didn't want to watch him and encourage him to share she should of given him a completely different toy.

At playcentre we go by the first in first served but encourage them to share. If its a really special toy they had been playing with for ages we might encourage the other child to find another toy but most of the time the first kid will let the other one have a turn. If it turns nasty we get out a whole new set of toys and get them playing with that instead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 2:06pm
sharing to little kids is a foreign concept and one we have to teach them. but not everything needs to be shared, i think anyway.
If for instance my boy got a present for his birthday and his brother wanted to play with it i would explain to him that it wasnt his toy and he should find something else to play with.
I also encourage them to ask instead of just expecting to have a turn. so for instance if toby had a car that gabriel wanted instead of putting a time limit on it and then making toby give it to gabriel i would get gabriel to ask toby for the toy. Of course sometimes they will say no and that is alright too cause generally the other one will say no sometimes when it comes to being the other way round.
or the other thing i might do is tell the child who wants the toy to play with something else and just wait till the other child has finished...

so there you have it, my take on "sharing".

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MrsMojo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 2:15pm
My sis has a rule with her kids when they get new toys that the other one cannot ask to play with it for the first 36 hours (although it can be offered).

Like you Bizzy she doesn't make the kids share their toys and they have a right to say no to the other but she will remind them that it means their sibling might say no to them next time - if they still don't want to share that's fine, she helps the other find something to do.

I quite like this way of doing things although we encourage sharing in our household (easy to do when there's only one child ) but if it came to 2 kids having a physical fight over the toy, or even if it's just Michaela doing something dangerous or destructive with a toy, the toy gets taken away.
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Andie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 4:06pm

I think it would seen really too awkward to say something to her about it later on - at the time, sure, but hey, who thinks that quickly in a situation like that?  Most of us are still trying to sort out what it is we 'should' be doing while the situation is underway.  Personally I wouldn't bring it up later, I'd just say something the next time a situation arose (about the current situation, not the last one, that is!).  But if you feel comfortable bringing it up with her now, then why not?  You are braver than I.  She mightn't feel quite as comfortable with the conversation so I guess you'd have to expect that it may go well, it may not.  We've all got different ways of handling our kids in conflict, but it seems a pretty general understanding that you don't yell at someone else's child! 

Andie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote busymum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 5:34pm
I would definitely ask her not to yell at my child EVER and also if I am on the premises, to bring my child (if in the wrong) to me to sort out, not them.

But I wouldn't say anything about sharing at this point. No child HAS to share and maybe it would have been appropriate for you to say something to that mother during the party along the lines of, I see both our boys are keen on that helicopter, can we work them out to share it, or something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Katherine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 10:08pm

Keep in mind that at two years old, group play and sharing aren't something that is typically developmentally possible, despite our best intentions at encouraging it. That is, two-year-olds do not readily understand the concept of sharing, as parallel play is what characterises their interactions (or lack therof!) at this time. Parallel play means children who play next to each other, but not with each other. They may be engaged in similar play next to each other, but aren't really interacting or "sharing". Sharing and group play doesn't usually evolve until children are around three years old, when they start to understand the concept of sharing and interact in cooperative play.

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AnnC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 April 2008 at 10:21pm
sorta similar to what happened and to give my point of view on things is>>>

Rhyley was a play group at daycare (his homecare place with other homecare mums and kids) He likes to play with this tricycle but this other kid round his age was on it.. I saw Rhyley push her which made the tricycle and the lil girl go over - she got off which he thought aha I got the bike - NOPE I took it off him and let her get on again.... Hence he HAD to learn that pushing and shoving was not going to get him what he wanted! INstead it wasn;t too long (probably long to a toddler but less than a minute) that she got off he went to get on and another older girl hopped on it - the carer then came over and took the other girl off to let Rhyley get on - which he was very proud about.... and the moral of the story is I had to teach him that pushing etc... was not the way to get the toy.

I do beleive kids need to be taught how to share BUT that kid was 'in love' with the toy at that time and it would of been unfair to take it off him BUT if the child had put it down and another child got to it before Josh did THEN you could of made the 'new' child share the toy.

I have told off another person's child BUT normally in a very nice sounding voice and more 'explaining' words than I would to my own..

Edited by AnnC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote my2angels Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2008 at 6:57am
I wouldnt have a bar of someone yelling at my child, especially when I am right there to deal with the situation myself but I guess you need to decide if you think its to late to say something now, if you feel comfortable about it then go for it, myself I would feel a bit awkward bringing it up after the fact. Maybe you could see if she brings it up at the party and then nicely say how you feel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jay_R Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2008 at 9:58am
Hey, thanks everyone - your comments are well appreciated. I think I've come to the conclusion that saying something now, so long after the fact, would not really achieve anything at all, apart from make us both feel a bit stink.

But in future I am going to make sure that I have my wits about me enough to deal with this kind of situation correctly at the time. I feel that my little boy was dealt a raw deal and as his mummy it is my job to ensure that wherever possible it does not happen.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nikkitheknitter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 April 2008 at 10:10am
I wrote a reply last night that was along those lines.... I think you can seethe about it and I do agree that poor little Josh was dealt a raw deal, but saying something this late will just create a larger issue and may cause you more trouble than it is worth.

If it happens again however, I'd unleash the fury!!
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