question about Christian marriage
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Topic: question about Christian marriage
Posted By: daikini
Subject: question about Christian marriage
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 5:08pm
In the "Who's the boss?" thread, Clare asked:
As Christians, Nat and I do believe this. However, personally I believe I can be submissive without being a doormat! As a Christian woman, I believe God designed marriage to be between a man and a woman, and that He placed the man in charge - because at the end of the day someone has to make the final call! I choose to defer to Nat's authority as the head of our family out of respect both of Nat and also of God and His teachings in the Bible. ------------- Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys |
joshierocks wrote:Replies:
Posted By: Paws
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 7:09pm
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Marriage absolutely is a partnership but yes I believe a wife should be submissive (for lack of a better word) to her husband, he should be the head of the household. On the flip side though a husband should uphold his wife and treat her with the utmost respect allowing her to to be all she can. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: busymum
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 8:05pm
I'm with them  My DH doesn't 'lord over me' but there have been times when we have disagreed and I've stood back and let him make the decision.-------------  |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 9:16pm
Im too stubborn and pigheaded to allow my dp to make all the decisions 
this is kinda offtopic, but becca, i was reading a book called the "red tent" about, Jacob's daughter Dina, (i dont know that you'd like the book itself as her version of events is a bit different to the book)but anyway, one of her descendants is called Kiya! and spelt the same as your girl's, and when i looked it up on a babyname site,under biblical names, it was there....I never realised it was a biblical name, I thought it was quite modern.....I just found that really interesting and thought id share (tho you probably already knew it !) 
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Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 28 November 2007 at 9:55pm
This is a really interesting dicussion. I dont come from a christian background although DH is a lazy catholic. I "think" we handle things fairly evenly but then again you know how we joke about letting men think they have won? Maybe he does that to me
I have to admit that whilst I think women are just as capable as men at doing almost anything, society is falling apart due to a lack of distinct roles. And I think men are suffering more as a result to maybe you girls are on the right track. Let them be top dog....as long as they never abuse the position.
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Posted By: Jay_R
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 9:24am
| Hey, thanks you guys. I didn't want to upset or offend anyone in the asking of this question, but it is something I've been very curious about. Becca, I completely understand what you say about being 'submissive' in a sense, without being a doormat. I certainly didn't mean to imply that being submissive automatically meant you had no mind of your own or anything like that. |
Posted By: CuriousG
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 11:46am
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Wow, what a powerful topic. I think its got to be each couples decision about who plays what role. Personally, I am not 'submissive' to my husband. Then again, we aren't religious so perhaps that is a factor. We do make most decisions together but it is me that has the final say. I run the household and make decisions with regards to our well being.
In times gone past I feel that perhaps the man was more in charge by default because they went to work, earned the money and the wife stayed home, looking after the house and children. It just simply isn't like this for some people these days and it must have some impact. More and more I see women returning to work, some out of need, some out of want. Our circumstances may be attributed also to money, and how much we are paid. As a woman who earns over double what her husband does, I feel that this has a big impact on who makes the decisions in our house. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: JD
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 12:11pm
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I don't think it has anything to do with money or who earns the most. According to Christian principles, it is the husband who will have to answer to God.
I submit to my husband, but in saying that, he consults me on everything and we always make joint decisions. If we get to the stage where we can make the decision together, I will trust him (as I promised in my vows) and back down. Everyone to their own....I just don't think it should have anything to do with who earns the most money. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 12:27pm
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me neither..although we aren't in a Christian marriage as such... even if i earned more than him I would probably still listen to him more about things..in our case generally he is more logical and practical and always considers my opinion..i don't think I necessarily back down to him but weirdly although i was raised in a military household my Mum was the boss yet I still look to my husband as the 'decision' maker.. :) albeit with my input.. ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: CuriousG
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 12:27pm
Maybe not in every household but definitely in ours. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: 11111
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 1:21pm
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Wow I love this topic. I try very hard to be the submissive wife casue I know that is the order God has put into place. I love and trust my husband and when the big desions' need to be made and we can't agree I go with him cusase as someone said before he is who hs to answer to God. ------------- Deborah Mum to:   
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Posted By: fattartsrock
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 1:49pm
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And those who know me will laugh at this, but I prefer to be submissive as well... To a point. Like JD siys, my hubby always consults with me first, but all decisions are over to him. Having said that,. though, we do run on happy mum, happy house. ------------- The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P |
Posted By: almostthere
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 2:51pm
I was just reading through the posts in this one and came to the last one, which really made me think. ANd i realised OMG yes! Its funny as people who know me know I am a very strong woman who makes her own deisicions about her life and how she lives it. But what they dont know is that I would not make a desicion of importance without consulting my husband first! he controls the money (really) and our bills. I watch the house and ensure that it is a clean and healthy environment for us all. Im not a doormat and I am a strong woman, but i must say, I am fairly sumissive to my husband. And it doesnt bother me a bit! :) ------------- http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/2128f6"> 
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/2128f6 - chart |
Posted By: my2angels
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 4:23pm
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wow how funny. my first thought was no bloody way would i be submissive to my husband. i strongly believe men and women are equal, and should be treated as such. For us its give and take on who makes the final decisions depending on what the issue is. I hate controling men, its a pet peeve of mine. I cant stand the thought people think they are below thier husbands or that they should follow behind like a good little dog. In saying that I do respect that in each relationship things are done differently as in each religion. Im curious though, if it was something you felt really strongly about would you still submit to your husbands wishes and let him make the final decision if it was different to what you wanted?
And sorry I dont mean to offend anyone, these are my opinions only. |
Posted By: JD
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 5:23pm
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If it was something I felt really strongly about, I would express that in our discussion so DH would know how strongly I felt. Its hard to answer your question (my2angels) because it would depend on the circumstance. Generally if you are submitting to your husband, you do it as a principle in your marriage, not based on how strongly you felt about something. In saying that, don't assume that DH's never change their minds. We are both equals and if I felt so strongly about something, I think DH would probably back me up!
------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: almostthere
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 5:48pm
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I agree with JD. Being submissive does not mean, for me, that I follow like a lapdog and give in to his every whim! lol i could imagine how funny that would be if i did.
We have disucssions about EVERYTHING! and i seriously, i mean we communicate about all of our hopes dreams, what we are scared of, what we hate. We are eachothers sounding boards for everything. I suppose Im not truly submissive to my husband as we do not bow down to eachother, and i most certainly do not bow down to him! But we communicate, we discuss, I have my areas to look after whereas he has his.. Thats just us tho... ------------- http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/2128f6">
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/2128f6 - chart |
Posted By: Paws
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 7:11pm
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I don't actually like the word submissive as it does imply the doormat sort of idea where a woman has no say...which is not what it is about....
As JD said....the husband has to answer to God and if he has abused his position as head of the household then he could have a LOT to answer for. That is why he has to have respect for his wife and take into account her wants,needs and skills and abilities and desires as well. I hope that makes sense. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: AnnC
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 7:24pm
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I didn't want to get too into this conversation But i thought we all had to answer to god not just the 'husband'? ------------- Ann 
Also Mum to Josh (15) and Brooke (10) |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 7:26pm
| can i ask a question? and in no way is it meant to offend anyone, but what does it mean when you guys say the man answers to God? does that mean when they die or all the time? |
Posted By: Paws
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 7:36pm
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Yes we do all answer to God in the end (or on the day of judegement if you really want to get into the nitty gritty - when we will be held accountable for our lives)...if a husband has not treated his wife as he should then he will be accountable for that. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Paws
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 7:40pm
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This might explain it a lot better....it's a pretty good article....
http://www.familylife.com/articles/article_detail.asp?id=422 - A husbands Role in marriage ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: daikini
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 7:42pm
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As Paws said, in our faith we believe that in the end we will all be held accountable by God for our own lives. What we are trying to say is that the Bible teaches us the husband has EXTRA accountability for the way he has led his family (how he treated his wife and child/ren, whether the decisions he made were for the good of the family as a whole and in line with God's wishes, etc) ------------- Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys |
Posted By: Paws
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 7:45pm
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Becca says it so much better than me! (serves me right for trying to make sense after a long day luging!) ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: busymum
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 7:54pm
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I think he 'pays for it' (via consequences) along the way as well. I guess when I look at the way God set things up I see how much things all seem to work better that way - as a general rule.
For us, DH is SAHD and I am the worker but it makes no difference to our decision making. We actually both quite strong when it comes to making decisions - are both firstborns ------------- |
Posted By: daikini
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 7:56pm
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I thought you made perfect sense, Paws!
I think maybe one of the biggest problems we are having in this thread is different definitions of submit. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/en%3Asubmit - dictionary.com says this: sub·mit –verb (used with object) 1. to give over or yield to the power or authority of another (often used reflexively). 2. to subject to some kind of treatment or influence. 3. to present for the approval, consideration, or decision of another or others: to submit a plan; to submit an application. 4. to state or urge with deference; suggest or propose (usually fol. by a clause): I submit that full proof should be required. –verb (used without object) 5. to yield oneself to the power or authority of another: to submit to a conqueror. 6. to allow oneself to be subjected to some kind of treatment: to submit to chemotherapy. 7. to defer to another's judgment, opinion, decision, etc.: I submit to your superior judgment. Personally, I am using the term "submit" with reference to definitions 1 and 7 when I talk about how I submit to my husband. I CHOOSE for Nat to be the final authority in our decision making process, and in return he seeks my input but accepts the responsibility of the final say. I get the impression that those of you who are not used to this way of life are thinking of the term "submit" as being more like definitions 2 and 5 - authority taken under force and/or coersion rather than freely offered. ------------- Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys |
Posted By: 3boys
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 7:57pm
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Wow this topic is really interesting.
I had never thought about is in this way before. I do think that we all find a way to raise our families in the way that meets our own beliefs and expectations. Personally I would find this difficult. Just one question - my grandparents are Christians and and we all respect their beliefs and my grandfather as head of the household, but when you spend time with them you realise that my grandmother is the strongest of the two, and by defualt is actually the head of the household, she would just never accept that title. Is this the same with other Christian Families? ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: my2angels
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 8:16pm
| Daikini do you take #7 literaly though, as in the "I submit to your superior judgement" thats part of what i dont like, why is the husband/man superior, what makes him better than a women or am I taking it to literal. |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 8:23pm
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thankyou for the explanation to my question paws and daikini
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Posted By: tishy
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 8:30pm
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3boys, I think as someone said earlier "Happy Mum, Happy House" would cover that.
I think that with the husband as the head of the household, his main priority is to keep his wife happy if he knows what's good for him
I know that's how it would work in most Christian families I know anyway. |
Posted By: daikini
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 8:36pm
That's just the example dictionary.com used with that definition, my2angels. I think you might be taking it a bit more literally than I do. I never said Nat is superior to me. In fact, in our marriage we are equal and we treat each other as such. However, there are some things I do better as a woman (childbirth being the obvious example) and there are some things Nat does better as a man (when I asked him for an example he said "Kiss you" and "pee standing up"  - teach me to ask him for a serious comment!)------------- Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys |
Posted By: Mama2two
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 8:52pm
ROFL. Typical Male! My DH & I are not following any particular belief system as we are both agnostic, but we both come from a very traditional upbringing and I tend to do this too. In no way do I feel he is superior to me, but we both have our roles in our little family and I enjoy feeling that he looks after Sam & I. I am quite happy to defer to his opinion if we don't agree on something as he tends to be the more sensible anyway ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Mazzy
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 8:54pm
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Wow, really interesting topic.
Thinking about how this applies to how DH and I work things out, even though we are not Christian (I am a Catholic but not actively). I think we are closer to the princples of trusting the husband to make decisions than I would have thought. While DH and I discuss everything and consider our marriage to be a partnership, I know that I actively choose to trust him on many decisions where we can't reach an agreement (which isn't that often, we are very similar). This is because I always want his input on things anyway, and find that his ideas and opinions are invaluable to me, especially when they come from an angle I hadn't considered myself. So for me, trusting his judgement is a way of showing I love him and that I trust him, as well as being able to enjoy the freedom of knowing he will do the best for us/our family. While I am a very strong-minded person (another first born) and stubborn, I find having the option to let DH take the lead incredible freeing, if that makes sense? I admire him for taking on that responsibility, and love that he knows he has my unwavering support, as I would have from him in the same position. It is something that has added a new dimension to our marriage and something I think has really strengthened since the arrival of DD. Hmmmm...perhaps something from my catholic upbringing coming through that I didn't notice! Thanks for making me think! ------------- Mum to two gorgeous girls! |
Posted By: tishy
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 9:13pm
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Mazzy I know exactly what you mean! Both DH and I were brought up in catholic families. Neither of us are active catholics now but the influences are still there.
Like you if we can't come to an agreement I trust his judgment completely. Saying that he would never make a decision that he knew I wouldn't agree with either. Also I am the youngest in my family so a lot more passive to his first born stubbornness
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Posted By: busymum
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 9:20pm
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Becca - how about "carry heavy things"? ------------- |
Posted By: Rachael21
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 9:22pm
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I'm not married or Christian but Ben definately makes the decisions in our house. It just happened that way and I think its really important for us as a couple. Obviously if I feel really strongly about something we will have a talk about it but at the end of the day its Bens decision.
The only exception is the kids and its not that Ben doesn't make the decisions its just that I do a lot of reading and Ben trusts me to make the right choices there. I think it has a lot to do with our personalities too, I have a wee shopping problem so if I was in charge of paying the bills and deciding where to spend the money we probably wouldn't have power
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Posted By: Mazzy
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 9:29pm
Funny how that catholic strain always comes through! DH is the oldest in his family too, so we are both as stubborn as each other.------------- Mum to two gorgeous girls! |
Posted By: my2angels
Date Posted: 29 November 2007 at 9:41pm
| maybe my hubby is pretty hard done by then. I think we are probably the opposite, i get my way and make pretty much all the decisions. We talk about the big things and all that, but when it comes down to it i normally get my way. We havent really had any major issues that one of us has really had to do something they dont want to do though. I just remember a lady i used to work with and her and her hubby were very religous and he was definately the ruler of the house. She wasnt allowed to get her hair cut when she wanted, she couldnt go out with friends, he even took the kids carseats to work with him so she couldnt get picked up. she did whatever he wanted and the thing is its not like she liked it being like that, she did have a brain and all these ideas of what she wanted in life but her hubby wouldnt let her and what he said went and I just couldnt live like that. |
Posted By: Jennz
Date Posted: 30 November 2007 at 2:25am
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This is so interesting!
I think I can honestly say that we are equal. DH handles the money more than I do, and I handle the kids more than he does just because of practical reasons but as far as decision making goes we discuss stuff to get to an outcome we both agree on. Every so often we can't agree on something and half the time he gives in and half the time I do. I like to think of us as partners in life rather than one having the authority over the other. We are so equal we even have the exact same IQ! We do have a rule in house that all decisions take "2 yes' or one no". For example DH wanted to use smacking as part of the way we discipline our children, I didn't so we don't. I wanted to move to Wellington when we came back to NZ, he didn't so we aren't. Its served us pretty well. ------------- Jen, Charlotte 7 & Kate 3 
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Posted By: 11111
Date Posted: 30 November 2007 at 9:00am
I think that is a pretty extrem example of things personally I could not live like that woman and I think that is a good example of a man abusing his postion as head of the house. I am just going to say Becca has summed up how I feel 100% and said it so much better then I could have. ------------- Deborah Mum to:
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Posted By: Paws
Date Posted: 30 November 2007 at 9:38am
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I agree that that is a very extreme example and in my opinon is totally absuing his status as head of the household. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 30 November 2007 at 6:02pm
| i think its just abuse full stop (the lady my2angels knew i meant....not your husbands!) |
Posted By: daikini
Date Posted: 30 November 2007 at 8:30pm
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I agree that that is an extreme example, and as Paws said, seems to be an abuse of his position as the head of the household. ------------- Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 01 December 2007 at 9:45am
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We are definately in an even partnership, I come from a long line of strong women, and this isn't going to change. We make decisions together, we both have strong opinions but similar ideals and values which usually makes the outcome something we both want. DF does need a bit of pushing from me, or he'd never decide anything.
I guess the submission of women, is where I part company with the teachings of the Christian church. I was born and raised Catholic, parted ways many years ago over the whole single celebate male telling me how to live my life. I can't believe in something that places me inferior to men. In the town I live there are a lot of fundamentalist christian groups (morman, exclusive brethern) and its their treatment of women that I just can't reconcile. Interestingly it was one of our nuns, that helped me to see that the bible isn't always to be taken as a literal translation. Surely the term 'man' is used to describe humankind not males? ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">   [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 01 December 2007 at 3:47pm
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This is a really interesting topic.
I think me and DH are pretty equal, we talk about everything even the little things and make our decision together. Although sometimes he can be indecisive and just tells me to decide and he will go with it. I don't think personally I could defer to someone else, it just doesn't fit with my personality I'm extremely independent and self reliant and I would feel cocooned if I knew that someone else had that control over me. Sorry couldn't think of a better way to word it, but I think basically that is what it comes down to no matter how it is flowered up. Having said that just after I had Spencer I was quite happy to hand the running of the house over to DH so that I could concentrate on looking after bubs and he did a good job as I trusted he would but I wouldn't want it to be like that all the time. ------------- 
 
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Posted By: SMoody
Date Posted: 01 December 2007 at 5:28pm
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Okay I didnt read the original thread. (seems I dont get as much time lately to be on oh baby, boo hoo and I miss it so much.)
But I am Christian and hubby is a bit different and McKayla's godparents are Muslim. But all of us sort of believe the same thing just differently. On the subject of the wife being submissive we actually think the same. (us and her godparents.) I believe that a woman is better at certain stuff than a man and that a man is better on other things than a woman. Yes you do get the exceptions and that is totally fine. We are all unique. Now Grant is useless on keeping tabs on books and although he earns the cash I make totally sure the cash is at the right place at the right time for bills to go off. But at the same time I will ask permission to buy certain stuff over a certain amount. (hell I dont even think he will mind but I do it anyway.) On other things I play the "submissive" part and although he asks my opinion I will go with what he says. Example will be the car we buy or something like that. With McKayla he has total input but seeing I am the primary caregiver I have sort of more say into this and he follows my lead again there. I really do feel woman and men are made different for a reason so we can compliment each others in those areas. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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