Yet another sleeping question
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Category: Have A Baby?
Forum Name: First baby? Second or more?
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URL: https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13616
Printed Date: 14 September 2025 at 2:13pm
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Topic: Yet another sleeping question
Posted By: porcelina
Subject: Yet another sleeping question
Date Posted: 14 January 2008 at 9:30pm
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Hey all,
I have tried the suggestions other people have given me in the past and Ruby seems to be different from other babies that people are asking sleeping questions for, I am running out of ideas. She will feed and fall asleep and I have no problems with putting her in her cot in those cases as I know she is tired. But most of the time .... She feeds, she plays and is still wide awake after an hour (she does sleep through the night so possibly this is why) and if I try and put her down awake like all the Plunket info says she gets upset and cries and cries at being in her cot, as if to say heeeeey why am I here, I'm not tired! She doesn't show any signs of tiredness either so it's not that I am missing cues for overtiredness. I feel so mean if I leave her there (which DH does, he has no problems with that, while I have read that you supposedly shouldn't let them cry it out til 9 months), I have tried patting, shhhhing, reading a story, offering a dummy (which only works around a quarter of the time if I am lucky), you name it. The only way she calms down is if she is picked up (and still sobs a little while being cuddled for a while which is kinda cute!). It's like I am damned if I do put her down when awake (she cries!) and damned if I cuddle her to sleep (she often cries when put in the cot then too) 
I guess she is a very alert active baby! Help? Anyone have a baby like this and had some success? Do you think it's because she is sleeping at night and I just need to wait until she is sleepy and ride it out if she cries then? Arrgh! -------------   
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Replies:
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 14 January 2008 at 9:45pm
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Spencer would often lay awake for up to 40mins before going to sleep but I would leave him (not if he was crying though) if just awake and cooing or slight grizzling I would leave him. He is very active and alert or nosey if you like. I have found that he needs minimal distractions/interaction to get to sleep. So he goes into a darkish room with no toys in his cot, no music no anything interesting at all. His bedtime routine is this. If necessary change his nappy (normally only for night sleep), strap into safety sleep, kiss and leave room, anything more and he we will want to play etc, sometime he is still laughing, trying to suck on his feet etc, but I know he is tired so he goes to bed regardless. Now he will generally go to sleep within 5-10mins and will spend that time singing to himself, but at 2 months it did take him longer.
One thing I did was attack each sleep seperately and if he needed to come out and be cuddled to sleep for a sleep then thats what happened. In the first 3 months he spent as many of his sleeps on me or in bed with me as he did in his own bed. They are so tiny and is natural for them to want to be with you (IMO anyway) As for the tired signs I know that I thought he wasn't tired but he was and I was misreading the cues, the cues are very much like hungry cues and until they start eye rubbing it can be hard to tell. So things to look for are the vacant stare and jerky movements, so she may appear to be wide awake and alert but if you watch does she zone out then get active? if so she is tired, chewing on hands can also be a sign as she is comfort sucking not hungry. Plus an hour may actually be too long to be up, try putting her to bed after 45mins instead. If she is sleeping through the night she can obviously self settle, but maybe finds the daytime too exciting to switch off. ------------- 
 
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Posted By: MonicaMouse
Date Posted: 14 January 2008 at 9:48pm
Hi Porce, first  - Has she always been like this? Blair has started to do this again recently, he did happily play in the cot for 20 mins this afternoon and then started crying again. I've ended up going with the flow - if he falls asleep on me after a feed I'll wait to let him get at least 20 mins before I move him to his cot so I know he's got some sleep.
I was really surprised when he fell asleep in his stroller today when we walked down to the supermarket. I've also noticed that he tends to be hungrier and half the time that's why hes crying I think but I'm guessing heat and maybe 3 month growth spurt. Good luck ------------- 
Blair 15/10/2007 Daniel 30/07/2009 |
Posted By: porcelina
Date Posted: 14 January 2008 at 9:58pm
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Yeah she pretty much has done this the whole time, I think she was starting to settle into lying there nicely before we moved house when she was a few weeks old and having a new room threw her out.
She is definately awake, when she does the zoning out thing I put her down right away and that's usually the time it is okay for her and she'll have a little grizzle and go to sleep. Same with startling herself. I don't think I've ever seen her rub her eyes. My guess is she is bored in her cot maybe? She seems to be a baby that needs quite a bit of stimulation to be happy, we just bought her a bouncer with lights, sounds etc because a plain one wasn't cutting the mustard. But then cot is for sleeping not playing so there's no getting around the boredom? I was thinking about getting a mobile that spins (she has a static one hanging there) but is that enforcing a rule that cot time should be fun? It's so hard being a parent and knowing what to do! -------------
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Posted By: porcelina
Date Posted: 14 January 2008 at 10:00pm
Oh and she sometimes is okay with the cot until I strap up the safety sleep and she realises she is staying there!  -------------
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Posted By: 3boys
Date Posted: 14 January 2008 at 10:07pm
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I agree with cuppatea - they are instinctive and want to be with you.
I would recommend a pouch sling - I pop it on and Cohen falls asleep within a few minutes while I go about my thing - if I am out I leave him on me - if I am at home I wait for a few minutes until he is out and then slide the sling and him into bed. Slings are really great for babies who protest at being left in cots and for those whom CIO doesn't appeal too. They also work well for really alert babies as they are happy to be near you watching all that you do from an adult height. If you want to see how they work check out this website www.slingbabies.co.nz ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 14 January 2008 at 10:14pm
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A musical moving mobile could be a thing to try, can you borrow one for a week or so. Maybe she just needs something interesting to look at/listen to before going to sleep? Have you tried white noise or instrumental music? that works for some babies. Also do you swaddle? that can be a great cue and can also stop them from startling themselves as they are starting to go to sleep as that can then lead to all out crying as they get frustrated. Spencer was an absolute nightmare for messing with his face I have only just stopped swaddling him.
I would say that no matter how awake she may appear and hour is more than enough for her to up for, at 3 months Spencer would still only be up between 45mins to 1 1/4hr. Oh and if all else fails take her out in the car or in the pram just to get her to have that sleep and then tackle the next sleep anew. I would also look into going to a plunket family centre I found them really awesome, sometimes a fresh pair of eyes is all you need. -------------
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 14 January 2008 at 10:15pm
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Oh yeah 3boys I forgot about that, we didn't have a sling but a front pack and sometimes that would do the trick and allows you to still get stuff done if need be. -------------
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Posted By: miss
Date Posted: 14 January 2008 at 10:40pm
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If you can't pick her tired signs then it is near impossible to get the sleeping thing sorted - have you thoguht about booking intot he Plunket family centre as they are really good at working out sleep signs and shwoing you how to get them to slep without too many tears. -------------  
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 7:13am
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Daniel stopped doing the tired signs I was use to reading so I kept him up longer and did this for a couple of weeks and he became horrible to settle. I don't look for tired signs anymore, I just put him down after whatever time hes been awake now.
I removed everything from his cot bar blankets and I gave him a taggie blankie to suck and cuddle with until he falls asleep. Works great because it's not too much visual stimulation vs say a mobile, there's no way Daniel would ever go to sleep if he had a mobile in his cot. |
Posted By: 3boys
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 7:58am
I think a mobile in my bed would really get on my nerves - how could you go to sleep  ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: DJ
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 9:34am
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Hey Porce - I've pretty much got exactly the same issues and I've decided to go to the plunket family centre. I struggled all day yesterday to get her to sleep and she didn't sleep at all and got stupidly overtired.sigh. I must admit is is quite reassuring to read that other mums have been letting their babes sleep on them etc. I did that all last week and it was nice to have cuddles rather than abandoning her to her cot... In saying that I do want a babe that goes to sleep nicely in her own bed and gives me time for other things. I had one realisation this morning that might help tomorrow - I think I'm leaving her too long from when she first makes a noise in the morning. I think by the time I go in to feed her she is already tired... ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: MissCandice
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 10:52am
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Have you tried putting a peice or recently worn clothing in the cot so she can smell you? ------------- ~ Mummy to a beautiful girl ~ |
Posted By: porcelina
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 10:55am
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Well Ruby wasn't awake when I woke up this morning but was starting to stir so when she did wake up I got in as quick as I could. I fed her both sides and managed to put her down again within around 35-40mins (she had a spill in her cot but I remedied that situation, luckily it was just as I had put her down). I retreated to our bedroom and spied via the monitor, she was happily looking at her toys talking to them and pretty much by the time she had been awake for an hour on the dot it all went quiet. So far she has been asleep for 4 hours!!! She never sleeps that long in the day! Will see how the rest of the day goes!
Swaddling is something she hates big time (I have read how supposedly all babies like it and if they cry it's probably something else) but she has hated it from birth, she is a little houdini and if DH doesn't do her safety sleep up properly she wiggles up the bed out of that too (I just checked her, she's wiggled up as far as bent knees hitting the safety sleep). We have a sling that I use when we go shopping that she is cocooned in (she can't see out) and she goes to sleep in that but at over 5kg now I'm finding her a bit heavy. We also have a frontpack that DH uses and she sleeps in that too but not for so long. I have tried the radio on quietly too but that doesn't work, will try it off the station perhaps (how can they like that, it would drive me insane!)
I will persist with the 45min max in the day and see how I go, if that fails I'll give Plunket a call and see when a parent's class is on for sleeping. -------------
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Posted By: porcelina
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 11:01am
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Hmmm KylahsMum that could be a plan too, will give that a go thanks -------------
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Posted By: myfullhouse
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 11:27am
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I don't have this problem but in Pinky McKay's book "Sleeping like a baby" (I am a big fan of this book) she explains that all babies are different and that one of her children (she had a few) didn't require a daytime nap at all. Is Ruby unhappy if she doesn't sleep? Do you think that she needs a nap or are you putting her down for a nap because that is what we mums are supposed to do? If she is happy during the day without having a nap then maybe she doesn't need one.
Otherwise have you tried a hammock? Not sure if she will be too big for one now but that is how I got Jack to nap during the day once he got too hevy for the sling. There are quite a few on Trade Me. We got one off there from Nature's Sway directly, it was a factory second but you would never have known ------------- Lindsey 
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Posted By: porcelina
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 11:48am
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She does get grumpy after a while if she doesn't have naps. Not to the point of no return but grumpy enough to be a bit miserable.
I have just fed her for half an hour and put her back down again and once again she is happily smiling at her toys and talking to them. Honestly, if being up for a shorter time is the answer I will be super amazed as it's such a simple thing! I have also put the radio on off-station. Fingers crossed! -------------
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Posted By: peachy
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 12:00pm
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porcelina Plunket will do a one on one with you and go through a whole sleep routine for a full day. You and baby go there for the day and they will show you exactly how long to feed, play and sleep with baby. I know many people that have used this service and every single one has had amazing success from doing it!
I am just about at the point of going there myself as Lauren does not sleep for more than an hour at a time during the day! ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: DJ
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 12:21pm
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Fantastic Porcelina! Anyssa also went to sleep on her own this morning (only for about 20mins, but better than nothing) and is back to sleep again now! fingers crossed. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: porcelina
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 12:31pm
I think Ruby has been taking lessons off Anyssa, she lay there for almost half an hour talking to toys then got bored and grumpy  Am going to try feeding her again.
I think I'll give Plunket a call! -------------
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Posted By: porcelina
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 1:09pm
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Perhaps you are right Linzy, she still isn't asleep and is up again in her bouncinette smiling at me after a short feed (fell asleep on breast for a few mins then woke up again so dunno if she is tired or not, threw a hissy when I put her down after that). Maybe she isn't a sleep in the day baby, she hasn't been sleeping much from about 10am til 3pm lately and the sleep after that she usually grizzles.
I am waiting for Plunketline to call me back to ask them about it all. Maybe she is just a wakeful baby, I dunno. -------------
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Posted By: porcelina
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 2:03pm
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Well according to Plunket all babies need lots of sleep during the day despite having a nights worth of sleep her age.
They recommend swaddling (which I have done, the arms came straight out so I dunno how that will stop startling) and the following: Stay with baby and pat and shhhh til they calm down Leave them and if they start crying go in after 3 mins and do the same Continue as above stretching it out to 3, 6 and 9 mins If the cries/grizzles are getting more stretched out between cries leave them be as they are falling asleep If they are still upset after one cycle go back to 3 mins, some babies need 2 cycles to go to sleep I hope that helps some people and I hope it helps poor Ruby (who is finally asleep after 2 hours!). -------------
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Posted By: porcelina
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 2:03pm
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Oh and they said sometimes tapping the bassinette/cot helps to simulate a heart beat. -------------
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 15 January 2008 at 2:08pm
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Try safety pinning the swaddle that's what I ended up doing with Spencer cos he could break out of anything. i had stopped swaddling him when he was very young as I thought he didn't like it but it was one of the things that plunket got me to do and it really did make a difference. -------------
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Posted By: DJ
Date Posted: 16 January 2008 at 7:57am
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good idea about the safety pinning. Anyssa is a houdini too. I watched her sleeping for a while yesterday and she was doing a huge startle just after falling asleep, so I'm definitely back to swaddling today. Let's hope that makes a difference. In saying that I gave her to DP just before for a cuddle before he goes to work, popped out to put on the washing, and when I come back he's already put her into bed unswaddled. Oh well, she is quiet now (but sneezing...) ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: pekemoemum
Date Posted: 16 January 2008 at 9:01pm
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Huge hugs ladies... gosh I got 'shivers' reading your posts... in some ways it feels like FOREVER ago I went through this with Tyde and in other ways... as though it was just yesterday! He is now 11 months... and will be ONE next month!!
In my personal opinion I did find swaddling/wrapping THE best for my little babies... stretchy type wraps I found the best (as they sort of grip on!) The heat however can make baby feel a wee bit hot... but I did find the restriction of their arms/body alot more helpful for getting them to sleep. In saying that, I have heard of babies that sleep WAY better unswaddled.. so it's going to be trial and error. Many babys grizzle/resist being swaddled at first until they realise that it's a 'good' thing! ;) One thing I have learnt big time 2nd time around is leaving baby to go to sleep by himself (into bed settled but awake)... We didn't do this with our first boy... we would go and resettle and rock him to sleep and he's been a shocking sleeper and we STILL have issues (he's now 4.5yrs)....you will start to develop an understanding of the 'grizzles' of protest and the 'cries' of there's something really wrong and when you have you'll find that the grizzling is fine... its' ok for them to grizzle to themselves ... But from a non-expert I think that a little baby needs to sleep during the day too.... even if she's sleeping all night.... good luck... it definitely is trial and error, but sounds like you mums are doing AWESOME!! and man, that time FLIES past ...!!! hugs! (sorry, re-read my novel and don't know if any of it is remotely helpful! so just wanted to add MORE HUGS!) |