ANY ideas at all...
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Topic: ANY ideas at all...
Posted By: FionaS
Subject: ANY ideas at all...
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 2:39am
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I've posted about this before but I am getting so desperate. I just need ANY suggestions of who we can see about this.
So far we've seen: Doctors Paeds Plunket Cranial Osteopath Naturopath My girl has been awake for hours most nights for months. She gets on her hands and knees and rocks and makes a loud "mmm, mmm" sound. She keeps doing this for 1 to 3 hours in the middle of the night, usually from midnight up until 2.30 or 3am. She is wide awake when she does it. We've tried the safety sleep but she just moves her body up and down in it and continues with the whole thing. I know it sounds like a very autistic behaviour but she doesn't do it outside of her cot and is a very socially interactive girl. I've tried moving rooms & using earplugs but I can not sleep through this. Every night I'm awake for hours first because she is so noisey and then because I am down right freaked out about why she is doing this. ANY suggestions at all would be valuable. I am so sleep deprived (+ now have concern about this new pregnancy). Tonight is it 2.30am and she has been going since before 12. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Replies:
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 5:16am
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what do all the docs etc say about her behaviour? ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 8:14am
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They say it is strange but that there's nothing they can do about it and as she is developmentally on track it must be ok.
She was awake for 4.5 HOURS last night!!!! I have only had 1 hour sleep. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: Andie
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 8:34am
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That's a confusing one. Not that I'm suggesting by any means that there's something wrong here, but what about e-mailing one of the OhBaby Experts? I think I saw a Psychologist amongst them - I may be wrong on what her title was, and sorry I can't seem to find them on the site now. She'll be trained about all sorts of behavioural issues, so in case it is one, might be worth a shot? Hope you get some sleep soon - sounds nerve-wrecking! ------------- Andie |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 8:39am
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Good idea. Scary to think my daughter could need a psychologist though! She has a wonderful home life :( ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: Bombshell
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:22am
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have you asked about a referral to Campbell lodge - now Awinitia? (sp?) via your doc - they deal more with behaviours etc and she isnt too young to go....ask doc for a referral s/he will know who i mean.
BTW an idea - and not sure if it is helpful or not...is it worth going in when she starts, picking her up and playing in dimly lit room for ten mins and then doing bedtime routine again? OR goign in and starting her music or whatever she falls asleep to at start of night again when she starts this behaviour? |
Posted By: .Mel
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:29am
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Have you thought of video-ing it so people can actually see what she's doing?
I like BS's idea though. ------------- Mr Mellow (16) Miss Attitude (8) Destructa Kid (3) 
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:36am
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I think Mel has a great idea with getting a video of her doing it!
I too like BS's idea, maybe a distraction of any sort when she starts it |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:36am
What do they specialise in? We've tried various methods of going in or leaving her to it and nothing seems to help. At the start of then night she simply goes into her go-go bag, cuddles her muslin and goes to sleep. We put her down, say goodnight and leave. She never cries or anything, just goes straight off. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Bombshell wrote:Posted By: miss
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:37am
Now don't you worry about that, I know plenty of children with perfect loving normal home lives who have had to go through a psychologist to sort a behavioural issue. There is no judgement anyone can make from you accessing all the help you need. I just hope they can help you out. -------------  
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Posted By: MyBelly
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:39am
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or maybe try a warm bath or shower with you? have you moved house or anything? it could maybe b a nervous reaction to something?
good luck though hun! 
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:40am
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I could video it. She basically is on her hands and knees rocking her self back and forth (forwards and backwards) and going "mmmm mmmmm mmmmm". If I go in she looks up with a HUGE smile and does increases the volume. The cot makes a banging/rattling sound when she does it.
Last night she also spent about 10mins giggling. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: miss
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:41am
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The other thing is to find out about various sleep clinics - there is one in hamilton for young bubbas, not sure if that would be where you went or if you would go to the general aklnd one. Not sure of anything other than their existance and their success though, sorry! -------------
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Posted By: Bel
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:44am
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Is she definitely awake or is similar to sleepwalking??
Just a thought? ------------- Mum to two beautiful kids 
Luke (09.11.2007) Amy (01.04.2009) |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:49am
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Most definately wide awake. No doubt about that. If I go in she smiles and laughs and talks. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 10:05am
| With sleepwalking though, people can have completely normal conversations with others. It's really trippy as my brother sleepwalks sometimes and he has no recollection of the conversations and things hes done but you would swear at the time that he was awake. |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 10:07am
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Yeah but I'm very sure she is awake. She is really really grumpy today after 4.5 hours awake in the night and will probably need 2 naps I guess. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 10:36am
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It's really hard as I am just so worried. I know worry doesn't solve anything but as a mum, anything that is very out of the ordinary is worrying.
It's really easy for me to blame myself but I know that DH and I are very loving and capable parents and have given Elle the very best start in life in all respects, phyically, developmentally, emotionally, spiritually etc. And yet, I find myself blaming myself and trying to find out what I've done wrong. I keep thinking "it must be something I've did that made her so unsettled as a baby" or "maybe its because of me that she is scared of women" (ironic if you meet me as I'm a mouse!). Or, "maybe I've done something to hinder her development that has lead to this strange night behaviour". I know it's not true though, she has had the very best start in life. If there is something wrong, which their may not be, it is in her body and that is not "caused" by anyone. I guess I'm just too tired  ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: Chovynz
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 10:39am
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A bit of consolation from me i guess. My best friend - when he was young - would go on his hands and knees and rock. He'd hit his head every time he rocked. His parents couldn't figure out why he did it. Docs couldn't either.
He's turned out fine. I guess im saying don't worry about it. It'll sort itself out and if it needs addressing then theres time later in life. Try and find ways for you to sleep would be more important than worrying about a habit that doesn't harm her. One other suggestion: maybe she's having too much sleep during the day? Try to tire her out more. ------------- Defending the male species since 1980 
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 10:43am
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Thanks Chovynz. Stories like that help a great deal.
I know worry is stupid...it's just in my nature, especially when it concerns the most impt person in my life :) ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: Bel
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 10:45am
DH has a cousin who was exactly the same - but the down side was that he did it until he was around 7 years old. He turned out alright tho... ------------- Mum to two beautiful kids
Luke (09.11.2007) Amy (01.04.2009) |
Posted By: mum2paris
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 10:52am
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I used to think my girls were awake when they sleep walked, which they do frequnetly, but have now been able to figure out that isn't always the case, usually once you see them "wake-up" in the middle of talking to you, and wonder what the hell they're doing then you kinda get a bit of an idea from there on out the kinds of behaviours they have when they are not awake but appear to be.
Paris tends to be very wide-eyed awake, and will be kinda cutesy/ditzy in the way she speaks, she'll ask for weird things and not be able to explain what she means etc, but definately does not stop her getting up, walking around and talking to people. I used to wake up sometimes when she was littler to find her standing next to our bed watching me, not actually with it but wide-eyed (freaky to wake up to big eyes starring at you) I usually could direct her back to be but until she woke properly, nothing would get her to get back in bed and go to sleep properly or close her eyes. Ayja's more of a wanderer, not always with her eyes open, hence we tend to hear her a bit more as she ends up in weird places and bangs into things alot. Once at my sister's she found her way out of bed, managed to climb over the bed paris was sleeping on and i woke to a crash to her sittingup asleep/dazed-ish (once i had turned on the light freaked out cos i wasn't able to find her) she was wedged between a guitar and a bookshelf, she had no recollection of getting there. Don't discount the idea of her still being asleep. Kids do some weird things when they're sleep-walkers. ------------- Janine and her 2 cool chicks, Paris & Ayja 
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 11:00am
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Yeah I guess, she just seems super excited and happy.
I worry about sleep deprivation (hers, not mine). Some days her total sleep drops to 9 hours. This from a kid who up to 14mths still needed 3.5 hours day sleep at 13 hours at night!!! ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: Andie
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 12:58pm
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Fiona I didn't mean to offend with the suggestion of some on-line advice from a Psychologist... they work with an meet people from all walks of life and can have some good info on general behavioural questions - they're not just there for the high-tarrif stuff. Anyway, I know you know that already - it's just scary to cross that line of getting... help from a shrink. And getting their professional opinion or suggestions doesn't mean Elle's suddenly in need of therapy. And hey, I understand that it's tempting to look at 'what have I done to create this problem', because every mum seems to do it, and dammit - we're fabulous at blaming ourselves for all sorts of things! But it just seems too tiring to me, to be raising a busy toddler, fighting constant food battles with her, running a household, all while sleep-deprived... AND wondering what it is you did 'wrong'. Drop the guilt trip!!! For what it's worth (and you know I've met some 'special' kids in my time) I don't think you've done anything wrong here, I do think Elle is a beautiful and lovely and also very high-maintenance little girl who I can only imagine will end up in the 'gifted' classes at school one day! ------------- Andie |
Posted By: Bombshell
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 1:06pm
Child & Adolescent Services Campbell Lodge A community based service for children, adolescents and their families. We see young people up to the age of 18 years living in Counties Manukau who have significant emotional, mental health and/or behavioural problems. We provide specialist mental health assessment and treatment for children and young people in the context of their family/whanau. Campbell Lodge is staffed by a multi-disciplinary team including Social Workers, Psychologists, Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists, Child and Family Therapists, Nurses, Cultural Advisors, Occupational Therapists, and supported by an Administration Team. Campbell Lodge staff are also available to other providers for consultation and support in managing cases within their own service. Campbell Lodge is an Outpatient Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service serving the needs of a culturally diverse population of part of Auckland City. There are probably around 120,000 young people in this area and our task is to provide secondary mental health services to this group. Campbell Lodge accepts referrals from a wide range of services including GPs, Schools, NGO providers and other Child and Youth Health services. |
Posted By: katie1
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 1:12pm
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I can't add any other ideas to what people have said but PLEASE don't think it is anything you have done. You will have done everything possible to give Elle the best possible start in life and she is very lucky to have such a lovely caring Mum who is worrying about her and looking for solutions. Take care.
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 2:55pm
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Would you believe that after being awake from 12am to 4.30am Elle won't nap today. She's had 20mins sleep. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: pepsi
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 3:28pm
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You probably have already, but I did a quick google search and there are a number of links to various articles with parents also wondering what it is. Here's just one of them..
Question: I have a five-year-old who will rock late at night on top of his head; just above the forehead. He practically burns his hair off. It even smells burned. Why does he do it and when should it have stopped? He's been doing it since he's been old enough to get on his hands and knees. Answer: Believe it or not, rocking and head banging are not uncommon events in childhood. Some estimates have said that five to ten percent of children do this. There is no specific association of rocking or head banging with any later abnormalities or problems in children who are developmentally normal. (Only children with severe developmental problems, such as mental retardation and autism, have a higher rate of rocking and head banging that persists when they are older.) Most children who rock or head bang started between six and twelve months of age. It often consists of rocking on the hands and knees and potentially banging the head against the side of the crib. Some children do this to soothe themselves and some children do this, particularly at bed time, as part of a ritual that helps them fall asleep. Most children do stop this activity spontaneously between three and four years of age, however there are some children who continue to do it through five or six. If it persists longer than this, it would be reasonable to evaluate it further and find out if there are any other psychological stresses that may be contributing to the symptoms. I would recommend that you see if you can encourage him to develop another bed routine. If you continue to have difficulty with it, I would recommend talking to your pediatrician. http://life.familyeducation.com/behavioral-problems/emotional-development/42230.html - Linky |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 3:32pm
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Thanks. From what I've read rhythmic rocking disorder which is what that link refers to, it very common BUT it is rocking that occurs when in light sleep and lasts anywhere from a few minutes to 15 not for hours at a time.
Because Elle is awake and does it for hours it doesn't quite fit. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 4:31pm
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The only thing I can add is that Pauline, our psychologist, and Alex, our sleep expert are really lovely people and maybe by working with both of them together you might get some answers? Alex (Dr Alex Bartle) is a GP with years and years of experience and who now specialises in all sorts of sleep disorders in adults and kids and runs a private clinic, and Pauline is very experienced with behavioural issues in children so you couldn't be in better hands. ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
 (02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: Two Blondinis
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 7:59pm
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hun, I don't have anything to add other than you are a wonderful mother and that child never wants for anything. It is natural for a mum to blame herself as we are normally the main provider and we all think we should be able to fix anything and everything! We need to remind ourselves that we are only human.
Elle is a lovely little girl who just has a few quirks that need to be ironed out so that you can get some well deserved rest Big hugs to you and your lovely family  ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
 
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Posted By: .Mel
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 8:13pm
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Another thought. What about CHADS?
Childrens Health and Disability Service? They are fantastic. They have helped us on off over the years with Conor. I can't fault them. Rhonda who is the nurse for our area is amazing, kind and very "onto it" you would need to get a referral from your GP. We can talk it about it more tomorrow if you like? ------------- Mr Mellow (16) Miss Attitude (8) Destructa Kid (3)
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 8:29pm
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Thanks guys. Elle finally napped from 3 to 5 today at her Nanas and was the happiest kid on the block again when she woke. We've had a lovely evening so I feel better. I'm just too sleep deprived and hence struggle at times.
I've email the Oh! Baby experts + I have an appt with someone in 2 weeks who has been recommended to me as a miracle worker so we'll start there and see how we go. I have to confess that Elle has phenagan tonight as I thought a couple of night of that might help break the habit if that is what it is. Feel dreadful about it but we all need our sleep. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: my2angels
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 8:33pm
| this is going to sound completely out there but what about a medium, maybe something more than meets the eye is going on....ok even as i type this it sounds completely crazy but well stranger things have happened. |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 8:39pm
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Thanks my2angels. We are Christians so don't go into that kind of thing but are doing what we feel is appropriate (prayer etc) in terms of addressing the spiritual side. Definately a good thought.
I did cross my mind last night as she was having a conversation and giggling...I said to DH "maybe she has an invisible friend in there". ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: AnnC
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 8:49pm
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my2angels - i hear what you are saying - I remember Josh as a 1 year old babbling to something - it really looked like he could see someone BUT there was no one there...
anyway not sure if this is what Elle doing though
I remember reading someone saying about too much sleep during the day - but how late is she sleeping till in the afternoon? If Rhyley (whose not too much younger than Elle) has a sleep till 5 - I don't ut him to bed as early as he just mucks about. Perhaps shes going to sleep ok but then wakes up 'refreshed' and has to 'play' till she feels tired enough again? I hope the experts can help with it - although i say experts lightly as the best experts are us as parents ------------- Ann 
Also Mum to Josh (15) and Brooke (10) |
Posted By: .Mel
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 8:49pm
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I was thinking the same think My2A. ------------- Mr Mellow (16) Miss Attitude (8) Destructa Kid (3)
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 8:53pm
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Elle naps 12 to 2 which should be just fine up until 2 or later even. She only transitioned to 1 nap at 14mths as she's always needed at lot of sleep. Up to 14mths she was still doing 16 hours per day.
We have / are taking care of the prayer side of things ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: my2angels
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:00pm
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oops sorry didnt mean to offend. I have no idea about religion sorry. I know a few times Ive often thought Kobe was having conversations to 'ghosts' or whatever. he used to look up at the ceiling and laugh and chatter like there was someone there.
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:04pm
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Not offended at all I welcome all suggestions. Everyone has different beliefs and the essence of what you suggested is very valid...whether it is medium or a Christian minister...it is still someone concerned with spiritual things.
------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: busymum
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:17pm
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I wouldn't be too concerned about it, little kids have a way of sleeping in the day if they really need it. But is there any way to change her room or sound proof it a bit more for your own sleep? ------------- |
Posted By: KH25
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:30pm
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What about toys/books in her cot so she might play with them for a bit when she wakes? Is it really dark in her room or does she have a nightlight? Any chance that moving her to a big bed might help?
Ummm duct tape over her mouth lol  (kidding of course)------------- Kelly, mum to DD, 19Jun06 (26wks 1lb15oz) DS1, 24Oct10 (32wks 4lb11oz) and DS2, 31Dec11 (32wks, 4lb11) http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:30pm
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Sadly no, not really. We are looking to move house soon though so space between rooms will be at the top of the list!!!!!! ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 13 March 2008 at 9:33pm
LOL, a house with a granny flat for Elle  ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 10:07am
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Well it is officially getting worse. Elle has been awake from midnight until almost 5am for several nights. She is very happy, very awake and very loud. It seems like she just can't get back to sleep. DH and i have tired earplugs, sleeping in the spare room & sleeping in the lounge but she is so loud we can hear her and are wide awake.
I'm seeing our doc again today as we are desperate. I hate the fact that people laugh and think it is funny as your child be awake for 5 ours in the night and keeping the household awake is not funny. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: The_Stuarts
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 10:57am
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Oh no. That doesn't sound nice at all!
Have you heard back from the OB experts? A few people have suggested that she may be sleepwalking/talking. Obviously you're there and we're not so you would know better than anyone else whether she's awake or not but I did want to add that I am a sleeptalker and my DH can have full conversations with me, which can last for ages, and it appears that I'm awake (I respond to questions etc) but I'm alseep the whole time and can't remember any of it in the morning however spending so much time in such a light state of sleep does mean I'm not as well rested as I would have been otherwise. I'm not sure how fictional this is but you do occasionally see tv shows/movies where a person is taken to a sleep clinic to be monitored overnight - is this a realistic option? Good luck for your MD appt. today. I hope you get some answers soon. ------------- http://lilypie.com">   http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 11:04am
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No I havne't heard back from OB experts.
I will talk to the doc about a referral to a sleep clinic as although Elle is happy at night there is no way at all that it is good or healthy for her to be awake for 5 hours each night. Something bio-chemical must be making her wakeful. Yes, I understand re: sleep talking / walking etc but there is absolutely zero doubt that she is wide awake. DH has been quite relaxed about it all but now he is also really worried. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: The_Stuarts
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 11:30am
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I'd be worried too if it was Michaela. You're in my prayers. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 11:47am
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Probably going to a sleep clinic next week. The Dr we will see has been a GP for 25 years and is trained in sleep and specialises in kids. It's $180 for the first hour though.
Why does everything have to cost so much ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: katie1
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 12:11pm
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I know it is expensive but it is so great that you can get in to someone today who is so experienced and trained in that area. I hope he has some good strategies and solutions.
Thinking of you. Let us know how you get on today. Take care. |
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 12:18pm
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Is that Dr Bartle Fiona? He's our OHbaby! expert and he's a legend. ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 12:45pm
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Yes Emma, it is Dr Bartle.
I so hope he can help. Now we just have to survive until next Thurs. DH is coming too as he is sick of people not beleiving me or taking us seriously. Great to hear he is good. I'm probably going to have to take a weeks leave from my part-time as I'm too exhausted to function. I'll send Elle to her Nana's for her usual 2, 5 hour blocks and I'll stay home and sleep. Argh...why is this happening?!?!? ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: Andie
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 12:51pm
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Oh my gosh that's some serious sleep deprivation (and one heck of a Dr's fee ------------- Andie |
). I hope you get some answers soon - good on you for both going in with Elle - that's bound to help with the whole 'being taken seriously' thing. Fair enough needing a break from the job too - sounds like you need a break full stop! Is there anyone in your family who'd have Elle overnight maybe a night a week for a little while? Posted By: katie1
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 12:52pm
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Whoops sorry Fiona. I thought I read the appointment was today. Good luck for next week. Definitely take time off work. You need to look after yourself.
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Posted By: The_Stuarts
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 12:59pm
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Fiona, someone suggested videoing the night time rocking to show the doc - are you going to do this? Good luck for the appt. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 12:59pm
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I'd have Elle for the night if it meant you could get a decent sleep, but you'd prob be awake all night worrying about her, I never sleep well when my kids are away from me. The offers there if you need it tho. I can stick her in a portacot in the spare room and she can be awake to her hearts content. Trust me, after 9 years of Willie's snoring I can guarantee she won't keep me awake! ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: james
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 1:03pm
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aww hun you have every right to be worried about your baby big hugs and i hope you can get some answers soon ------------- <a href="http://lilypie.com"><img src="http://b4.lilypie.com/nLJ5p13.png" alt="Lilypie 4th Birthday Ticker" border="0" /></a> |
Posted By: .Mel
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 1:03pm
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Yeah I think you definitely need to video it Fiona. So the sleep people get an idea of whats going on.
She might be a girl who just doesn't want to sleep when we do... Maybe it's a form of insomnia? ------------- Mr Mellow (16) Miss Attitude (8) Destructa Kid (3)
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 1:15pm
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Will try and do a video. I was going to do one anyone for you guys to see (so you know I'm not nuts!!)She just rocks, talks, plays, laughs...just really does what a kid does when they are awake (except extra rocking). Her cot bangs loudly. She squeals with delight and chats very happily. After about 4 hours awake she starts a gentle moaning noise and at that point I know she is trying very hard to get to sleep.
She may just not be a sleeper although she had very high sleep needs up until 3 months ago and NEVER made a peep at night (I know all babies wake but she was silent at night for 8 months). The fact remains though that at her current level of sleep she would be classed as sleep deprived and it is a well researched fact that sleep deprivation in infants often leads to long term learning and behavioural issues so we don't want to play around with it. It is likely classified as sleep maintenance insomnia but we need to find the root cause. The people at the clinic said it is not normal or healthy (yay that they listened!) It also seems insane that we have to move to a bigger house just to get some sleep ourselves!! It started when we went away for a holiday just after Christmas. The room she was in was light so she was quite wakeful and when we got home she just kept waking and the periods of wakefulness got longer and longer. It SEEMS to me like a habit / behavioural issue. We just need someone to find the cause so we can break the habit and get back on track. She is doing well during the day so I am not worried about her overall development or anything...we just need sleep. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: caraMel
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 4:50pm
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I didn't think you were nuts Fiona
Good on you for taking a week off for yourself and thank goodness for hubby being so supportive. You really need good sleep at this stage of your pregnancy too. I really hope the appointment next week is the beginning of sorting out Elle's sleep issues! It would be great to have a video of it so you can show the Drs exactly what she's doing and how long it lasts, it might help to short cut their process a bit too. All the best Fiona, thinking of you. ------------- Mel, Mummy to E: 6, B: 4 and: 
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 4:59pm
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We saw my doc today. She said she has known other kids who play in the night and most of them (i think she said ALL of them) ended up being on the autistic spectrum...not severe but enough for them to have over-exaggerated self-soothing habits and various other social quirks. She said she wasn't suggesting Elle is on the spectrum though and said they won't know until she is 3 or 4.
Other than that she suggested phenergan at 10.30pm to see if she can be sedated through the waking patch. Seeing sleep specialist next week so here's hoping he is a solution and some GOOD news that doens't involve the autistic spectrum! She is very very social and intuitive and has great language so even if it is something on the spectrum signs are good that it's not severe. Sigh. It's a hard road! ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 5:09pm
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I don't think they necessarily do a sleep monitoring thing but if they do it is in our home. The appt is in the dr's office and we'll be going through her history, routine, health etc etc.
And yeap, we have the spiritual side covered. The team are church are great. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: The_Stuarts
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 8:51pm
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Are you going to try the phenergyn tonight? I hope it works well.
I'm thinking of you and praying that you have a good night tonight and that the appointment next week goes well. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 9:29pm
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fiona fiona fiona... sack your silly doctor cause he just seems to like giving you bad news...
as i told you pauls brothers both used to do it..neither of them are anywhere on the autistic spectrum - just ordinary average guys. and they both did it till about 3...they used to do it so hard they broke the cot...!!! eek. I think that the problem is you are so worried that you cant sleep and lack of sleep can make you imagine all sorts or things...and you really do need your sleep. ok - thats just my opinion.... and i wish i had a way to help you sleep. all i can suggest is a warm bath, milky chamomile tea and and try and switch off before you go to bed... oh and if she is on the spectrum there is nothing you can do anyway till you find out for sure when she is older so try not to worry about that either ---- i know easier said than done. love ya!!!!------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: Rachael21
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 9:45pm
| I just had a though, I remember one of the guys from antenatal saying he has about 4 -5 hours sleep a night and has since he was small. He just doesn't need sleep like everyone else. Hes really nice and nothing wrong with him at all so maybe shes like that? |
Posted By: meow
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 9:53pm
I wish there was an easy answer for you! 
It must be so frustrating not knowing what is going on, or how to stop it! Have you tried just for one day not letting her nap/not for as long? Probably wouldn't help, but worth a try anyway? ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Bombshell
Date Posted: 17 March 2008 at 9:56pm
| please get that horrid doctor of yours to refer you to the people i suggested....they deal with autistic kids every day at all levels - THEY will fill you in on what is and isnt wrong with Gabrielle. |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 18 March 2008 at 11:50am
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I know my doc sounds bad but she isn't...honestly, she is really good.
I may go down that path bombshell but before I look at the behavioural side, we are going to the sleep doc (who is a GP and paed as well) and a kinesiolist who our friends have had amazing results with. If neither of those work we'll check out that other option. She slept until 3am so I got 4.5 hours of sleep in one go!!! Woohooooooooooooooooooo. She was only awake for an hour and because I had finally had some deep sleep I just dozed while she was awake rather than fully waking :) YAY! If only she could do that every night. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: arohanui
Date Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:08pm
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Hoping for you guys that the sleep expert can give you some answers. It must be so hard surviving on so little sleep and worrying too. Good thing you got a bit more sleep last night!
I reckon it's probably worth videoing it so you can take it to the appointment and the sleep guy can see for himself what's going down. I think your doc is perhaps jumping to conclusions too quickly about the autistic spectrum. Although in saying that, my friends and I joke that most people are somewhere on the spectrum! If anyone is in any way a bit socially odd or has a little quirk like lining shoes up in size order by the door (yes I admit to that one  ) then they're "on the spectrum"!
I feel like I wanna say don't worry but I know if it was me I would... so hang in there, sounds like you're doing all you can to try and figure this one out ------------- Mama to DS1 (5 years), DS2 (3 years) and... http://alterna-tickers.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:21pm
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I agree arohanui...we are all somewhere on the spectrum as we all have quirks. Thats the prob with labels...they are best avoided. We are all just totally individual. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: 3boys
Date Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:37pm
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Hey Fiona,
It sounds to me like she just gets a lot of enjoyment out of it. Those cots can really make some great noises when you get them going. Have you considered putting her a a single bed early. I know it sounds a bit scary so young, but maybe the change will help her with this habit. You could still use the cot for her day naps so she doesn't get up and play but try a bed at night with the safety sleep. If she gets up and rocks in that it may not be as satisfying. Otherwise the only other thing I could suggest would be putting her in with you fro a cuddle - anything to stop the habit, but this may be hard since you are expecting. Sometimes I think a short sharp change can be all that is needed to curb a habit - and that is all it sounsd like to me, not autisic but just a habit that she enjoys. The best of luck to you. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 18 March 2008 at 12:41pm
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Yes I have considered the single bed idea. Will wait and see what the doc says. My only reservation is that she still hasn't learned to get down (e.g. can't crawl down stairs etc) so wouldn't want her to fall.
At least rocking in a bed would be quieter! I agree...she does seem to love it. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: .Mel
Date Posted: 18 March 2008 at 1:32pm
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The single bed idea is a good one. You can get those bed guard things from The Warehouse. ------------- Mr Mellow (16) Miss Attitude (8) Destructa Kid (3)
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Posted By: caraMel
Date Posted: 18 March 2008 at 1:58pm
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Or a safeTsleep. I used one with Ella when she first moved into a big bed. just safety pinned it shut and did it us loose so she could still turn over but it kept her from falling out. ------------- Mel, Mummy to E: 6, B: 4 and:
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