fattartsrock wrote: Imagine the outcry if we set up a thread to support BF mums.

I think a thread to support breastfeeding mums is a fantastic idea!  I sure know I could have used one in the early weeks before we got our BFing sorted.

.Mel wrote: I do think that some people are being a tad overbearing with their opinions and there needs to be some respect for all mums.

ChundaMars wrote: I would add that the above applies not just to BFing, but everything really! Why do people (particularly women) get so upset about stuff that doesn't affect them? <shakes head> Don't sweat the small stuff ladies!

Oh, ChundaMars.... you're playing with fire now  

But I have to agree with you both.

.Mel wrote: We are all adults here and we need to take a step back and remember that it's not about what you feed your child, its about giving your child love, cuddles and food! Whether it is from a nipple or a teat shouldn't be relevant. I have said this before and will say it again. This is a public forum and if you put your opinion out there, be prepared for negative and positive responses.

I agree with this completely!

We really shouldn't be judgemental. For those of us who are lucky enough to be able to breastfeed, it is such an awesome experience, but if a women is unable to breastfeed, we should not condemn them. People make judgements on face value sometimes and just because a baby is being bottlefeed doesn't mean that it is any less loved or bonded then a breastfeed baby. My nephew who is 5 now was fully bottle fed, not because my sister didn't want to breastfeed but because she physically couldn't because biologically he wasn't hers, yet she would have given the world to experience the wonder of breastfeeding again. What does get to me is mothers who decide to bottlefeed from the get go just so they are able to drink alcohol and go out. I have a friend who was like that with both her babies and it really disheartens me.

We should be supporting all mothers,whether breastfeeding or bottlefeeding.

FionaS wrote: Have many of you come under direct attack for your choice? i.e. someone come up to you to tell you that you are doing the wrong thing? Or is the attack more perceived i.e. based on your interpretion of what others might be thinking? I know on some issues (not child related) I sometimes feel defensive if someones view on something close to my heart differs from mine. For me feeling defensive is usually a clue that the issue is mine and not the other persons.

Hi Fiona - I had several incidents where complete strangers passed comment to me or asked me (what I would think now to be inappropriate) questions.

Example being - in a parents room giving Oli a bottle at about 6weeks old (he had only just gone exclusively to f/f) when a middle aged woman with 2 toddlers in tow....came right up to me....stuck her face in mine and said "Isnt your baby too little to be on the bottle....stick him on the breast he'll be much happier"....WTF....at the time I just ignored her, as I wasnt in an emotional place to deal with that. I had another comment from a woman at a plunket coffee group / talk who said to me (when Oli was grizzling)...."just stick him on your boob that will quiet him down"...when I repsonded that "actually he is on the bottle" (quite brave of me really) she responded really loudly by saying "you will regret that decision!".

I guess the worse one for me was the lactation consultant at Birthcare who we saw a week after we got home (so Oli was 2 weeks old), who basically told us in a very sharp way that because we had been topping him up with formula he was going to get asthma and allergies.

These comments basically made me so paranoid and nervous about people seeing me feed Oli, that I stopped going out without DH, and thats when the PND set in.

I think "sticky beaks" have a lot to answer for.

ETA: I think that new mummies are emotionally stressed / confused / tired and often people who are well-meaning can just seem to be having a dig. But to honest - its none of their damn business.

Fiona, yep when I had to change to FF Andrew my own plunket told me I shouldn't be bottle feeding him. She didn't even look at the notes my MW sent through .

When we went down to the P&C show in Wellington Andrew was 5 months old and was in the pram having a bottle and some woman told me he shouldn't be having a bottle. I told her she didn't know why he was having a bottle and to leave me alone.

Then when I was BFing Josh in the Plaza in Palmy one of the attendants in the food court was about to come over to me to tell me not to feed Josh in the foodcourt there in a parents room for that. He was stopped before he got to me by his supervisor who told him I was more than intitled to feed him there.

typing one handed with baby on knee and its bath time, but I genuinely wonder where anyone was bashed on the other thread?

CadensMum wrote: This is really a topic that shouldnt even be causing arguments, its a mother choice as to how she feeds her child. Im pro BOTH

Me too!

Wow havent even been in the other thread, must have a look too see what the fuss is all about. So far im guessing it was the BF ads which I absolutely love!! They are well done and the promotiong of breastfeeding is awesome.

MrsMojo wrote: fattartsrock wrote: Imagine the outcry if we set up a thread to support BF mums.   I think a thread to support breastfeeding mums is a fantastic idea!  I sure know I could have used one in the early weeks before we got our BFing sorted.

I was thinking that when I read through the other thread but then thought it couldn be done without arguement.  It would be good to have one to support mums that are having probs and want help without it being a place to lecture....but I think I am not living in the real world.  

I'd like to qualify that by saying I am not against people choosing to FF but  I would like to see mums who want to BF but need help getting that help too.

I think it just comes down to peoples own thoughts and feelings about FF. and like you said Emma if they arent secure in their choice to FF then any bfeeding promotion gets their backs up.

I have never been on the other side of not being about to bfeed  but in saying that I have been to hell and back breastfeeding my children, esp the first 2. It was painful, I cried solidly for 2 weeks everytime I feed Sades, had chronic infections and was even told by my GP to stop but I continued and am proud of it.

I am not anti FF, well to a point I am but that is a different story, as a plunket nurse I am very much pro bfeeding (as per contract) but I am more pro choice and will always support my FF families without question or judgement.

Maya wrote: At the risk of being shot down in flames I'd even go so far as to say that only a very small percentage of breastfeeding mums are critical of bottle feeding, yet a huge number of bottle feeding mums seem awfully defensive when it comes to breastfeeding. You have the right to formula feed your babies without a doubt, but we have the right to breastfeed ours too without being labelled as pushy.

I agree with you on this Emma.

I don't understand what the problem is TBH.  Before joining this forum I'd never come across opinions re breast/bottle feeding expressed so strongly.  I understand that the well being of our children is very important to all of us but what I don't understand is why people get upset that others are making different decisions for their child.

BTW.  I used formula for Michaela's daytime feeds from 5 months onwards and I have never felt the need to justify my decision, nor did I have any trouble finding the information I needed to bottle feed part time and I have more reason than most to BF because my specialist advised that to help prevent her from developing coeliacs I should not introduce gluten until after 1 year and still be BFing her when it is introduced into her diet.

I agree 100% that breast is best (I breastfed until about 15mo) but there is a place for bottle feeding and formula too.

ButterflyMum wrote: I think emma put it best if you were truely sucure ind your desion then some silly add should not affect how you feel. I BF Alan for a month and hated it had no problem's jsut did not like it. with Mikey I enjoyed it for the first 2 month's then started to hate it again had no trouble just chose to stop not once did I feel the need to defend my desion.   Maybe i have that look cause no stranger said anything to oh and most of my closest friend's BF. so I say do what you ahve to do or wnat to do and everone else can sod off. I dod thin FF Mum's do tend to get defensive or offended far too easily. JMO

Deborah what an awesome person you are, I think it takes a lot of guts for mums to be honest and say they hate Bfeeding and for a lot of people that is the case and their given right. Big ups to you hun and I hope you had a lot of FF support around you.

fattartsrock wrote: Yes there is no specific BF bashing per se, but I get really annoyed whenever someone says something about BF you get (some of) the FF brigade in going oh it makes me feel bad, or I get sick of it being in your face, its pushed too much. or Whatever. If you are so secure in your decision to FF Stop justifying yourself and making some of us BF mothers feel like we can't celebrate the joys of BF for fear of offending or being seen as pushy. All the pro BF ads on tv or in print or whatever isn;t out there to make you feel bad or inferior, that is entirely your own feelings and not the intention of the BF nazis or whatever you call us. The DHBs are obliged to push it as it is part of the WHO code. To CLARIFY my position. I am PRO FEEDING. Any kind of feeding. I am very pro breastfeeding, however I would never ever say to anyone anything negative about FF. I myself overcame huge mountains to breast feed,and believe it or not I didn't want to beeastfeed before I had Jake, at all, and was gutted when it looked like I would be unable to. That surprised me. What rips my nighty is the constant need to justify why you formula feed. Seriously, people only "pry" cos they think they are being helpful. Just say I didn't want to BF and they will run a mile. If you didn't want to BF, at least have the balls to say so instead of making up excuses. So yes, I am pro feeding, but very pro breastfeeding, and to be honest I do feel a little bit sad when people won't even give it a go, but I would never say anythign to anyone, because I firmly believe it is your choice.

Couldnt have said it better myself and the high lightered part always get my goat. Thats is why Debs again you are awesome for being honest and that deserves respect!!

I agree with you too Fattartsrock

LOL Biz I practiced on all my kids too but once they got bigger and my boobs were bigger than their head it was much easier to conceal lol

I regret giving up breastfeeding Alize and wish I was still breastfeeding him. I miss the closeness and the morning breastfeeds in bed. I miss being able to shovel it into his mouth to keep him quiet when a good programme is on or Im on the phone lol.

Peanut wrote: Crap, just typed a whole thing and it didn't go thru. Just to jump on in I agree with the comments on needing to justify and having the balls to own up to not wanting to. I decided not to BF from before my DS was born. It was not my thing, filled wth dread and just couldn't bring myself to do it. I am 100% confident in my decision. i have never had anyone question me or force there views me. Maybe I look confident in what I am doing or maybe I am just lucky that no one has said anything to me. If people ask I just say "yip, he is formula feed" no one questions furthur and I don't feel like anyone has looked at me rudely because of it...or if they have I have been too wrapped up in my own world to notice. I agree that alot of the comments etc re breastfeeding are taken as an attack by those that are ff. No-one can make YOU feel bad unless YOU let them. I also do get sick of all the messages out their re breastfeeding but purely because they don't interest me rather than making me feel guilty. Does that make me selfish probably but hey! At the end of the day I am just grateful to have a happy healthy wee boy.

Well said!  I think you have hit the nail on the head Peanut.  You havent felt guilty and noone has commented to you because YOU are confident in your decision.  And I dont know if that necessarily makes you selfish as you obviously have issues around the concept of breastfeeding (I am saying that nicely not in a sarcy way) and that is totally your business.  YOU made an informed mature decision on what was going to be best for you and your baby....end of story...WELL DONE!

LOL Steph I gave up when he was 15mths old and now it feels sooo long ago. He still goes for it tho but has no idea what to do with it, all he knows is it is his safe place to snuggly his head in when he is sad, hurt, scared or just happy to see me lol

these posts have really got me thinking about why there is such a divide in attitudes.  I was thinking, what else would be a good comparison and I thought of vaginal births versus c-sections.  Like the Breast is Best idea, we all know that VBs are best (in most cases) but there are still women who cant and have to have CSs.  We support them without question (unless they are celebraties not wanting to lose their ridiculous figures).  Do people who had to have CSs feel bad and guilty about it like those who have been unable to BF?  I wouldnt have thought as much as there is SO much more support and assistance.  So what is it that makes BFing so different.

I am asking as a genuine question rather than an opinion. I just think it is interesting that it is such a big deal and I think a lot of good points have been brought up.  Will we ever agree to disagree or will this arguement always exist?

Dont even get me started on the discrimination of having a c sect... it is alive and kicking, well was when I had DD1. I dont believe you can make comparisons to BF vs FF and VB and CS. My daughter was not breathing, had to insubated and given oxygen and rushed to neonates to keep her alive after being stuck in my pelvis trying to the huffa out. Now I tried as hard as I could to have her VB but her life was in danger. Deciding to breastfeed of FF wouldnt put her life in that much danger, she wouldnt have ended up in resus or neonates if I had chosen either way so IMHO def not a good comparison to make

I successfully BF my 3 children.  I wanted to do it, I was able to do it, I found it conveniant and easier than fussing with sterilising bottles. 

Until I came on this forum (this is the only one I come on, so have no idea about what else goes on in other forums), it never occurred to me that there would be so much debate about the issue.  It still baffles me about the debate that goes on regarding the 2 ways of feeding your children.  I've never judged anyone who FF, and would never question it with a mum who FF their child.  I wouldn't call myself a PRO BF either.  I weaned R & G when they were about 11 months old, onto formula.  I didn't bat an eyelid about it, and felt it was when i was ready for them to move on from BF.  I still BF Jett due to his allergy to formula, and he's very much a boobie lover and doesn't easily take a bottle.  But I was hoping to have him weaned from BF when he was one, although I don't think this will happen now.

Anyway, my point being was that if I wasn't on this forum and reading these threads, I'd be obilivous to this BF vs FF debate, because it's never entered my world before. 

fleury wrote: Bizzy wrote: MOST (ok read that as very nearly all) people have a choice in regards to breast or formula. As one of many adopted children, for obvious reasons, FF was and is the only option. There are many other different reasons including medical where breast is simply not an option.

Fleury there is an option for adopted mums to breastfeed their adopted babies, I have a 2 year old that is still feeding from his adopted mum at work.

WRXandJosh wrote: I dont think i read your post peanut ill go back now it prolly appeared when i posted (it takes me ages and i miss a lot im easily distracted) Well Kels it can be compared there are people who are pressured so much into breastfeeding it is actually harming their baby some to the point of dehydration because people tell them they must stick with it and there are heaps of medical reasons why people cant BF same as CS so why should anyone feel bad about FF or CS is my point? Just as babies must come out one way or another they must also be feed one way or another. But in society a CS is acceptable to a lot more people than FF and people dont come up to you and ask quite as freely which exit you baby took. Both feeding and arriving for a lot of people cant be controlled which way it ends up so why arent they all viewed as normal?

There is no way Breastfeeding a baby is a medical emergency or a life threatening situation that will suddenly harm the life of a mum, baby or both.

I think you have missed the whole point and yes there is some who cant for medical reasons cant bf but believe me in my line of work I have researched, eat, slept and dreamed BF and the complications and believe you me, none come close to an emergency c sect.

AND for the record I am NOT anti FF what I am is anti liars, people who make up excuses to not BF and say blah blah for medical blah blah, then get shyty when BF things are around because it causes so much guilt for them. I stand by and commend mums like BUtterflymum (Debs) who said plan and simple tried it and it wasnt for her.. What an awesome person to be able to be honest and not all whoa as me I cant etc etc..... I bet she would love to love BFeeding but she doesnt so never did and good on her for making an honest decision. SHe made the best choice for the health and well being for her and her babies..

They are given drugs from GP to help with hormones changes (which you dont neccesarily have to do) as anyone could feed a baby long enough and milk would come in whether or not it was their baby. Breast are amazing things!!!!

She did described to me breastfeeding with a tube beside her nipple going into her babies mouth supplimenting the feed while her boobs woke up and done what they were designed to do . I found it all very fascinating as I had learnt it in class but never really thought about it beyond on paper IYKWIM.

Kels wrote: Dont even get me started on the discrimination of having a c sect... it is alive and kicking, well was when I had DD1. I dont believe you can make comparisons to BF vs FF and VB and CS. My daughter was not breathing, had to insubated and given oxygen and rushed to neonates to keep her alive after being stuck in my pelvis trying to the huffa out. Now I tried as hard as I could to have her VB but her life was in danger. Deciding to breastfeed of FF wouldnt put her life in that much danger, she wouldnt have ended up in resus or neonates if I had chosen either way so IMHO def not a good comparison to make

Kels, I was never meaning to belittle the reasons for CS I was just trying to think of another big difference between mothers and thats the best I could come up with.  I think I was meaning noone cares that you had to have a CS.,...just that you are ok and your baby is ok...but people care how you feed your baby.  It intrigues me that the latter is the case.  I hope I didnt upset you.....I never meant to I guess I am not that good at getting my thoughts out the way I mean them (which is just curiosity at how people tick)