Desperate and losing the plot :(
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Topic: Desperate and losing the plot :(
Posted By: josephnia
Subject: Desperate and losing the plot :(
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 8:42am
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Apologies in advance cos I think this will be long...
I don't know what to do anymore, Blake has been consistently waking up every 3-4 hours during the night (at different times) and is hungry each time - he has that 'cough' sounding cry in the back of his throat that he does when he's hungry and he feeds for a good 20 mins or so. We are on a 3 hour routine during the day of wake, eat, play, sleep and he normally has a 1hr sleep in the morning, 1 1/2 - 2hr midday and another 1 - 1 1/2 hr in the afternoon - I always put him down awake and 9 times out of 10 he goes to sleep really easily. He has done a 7 hour stretch at night 3 times (weeks apart) and was doing 5-6 hours but has gone backwards for the last 2-3 weeks so I don't think it's a growth spurt. He was 4 weeks prem and IUGR (2kg at birth) and is now about 5 1/2kg at 18 weeks and is fully b/f. I think he must be waking in the night because he hasn't had enough during the day but how do I feed him more? He has one side then we do a nappy change then he has the other side - he doesn't cry when he feeds or after and for the most part he is a very happy, smiley baby. Does he need a top-up? I'm wondering about giving him formula for his dreamfeed but he has never had a bottle, not even a dummy so not sure how that would go (don't know until we try though). He has a feed usually around 5pm, then at 7pm then a dreamfeed at 10.30/11pm but still wakes at 1-2am and then again at 5-6.30am. I don't drink coffee or coke, just 1 or 2 Earl Grey teas - could the quality of my milk be poor? My diet is ok, could be better but i do have a lot of dairy. Or do I just have to try ride it out? I just feel like I'm losing the plot with lack of sleep and it's affecting everything. Can anyone suggest anything? I'm off to my solids group at Plunket this morning so will ask them as well - I just don't know how much longer I can go on like this 
Sorry for the ramble...my brain is mush at the moment  -------------  
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Replies:
Posted By: BugTeeny
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 9:00am
Solids.
If you're comfortable starting him on solids (the course will give you all the info you need), then I would say that'll make a huge difference. Your milk won't be lacking, I'd say his metabolism is speeding up (is he rolling/moving around more?) and just needs something more to line his tummy. I know Plunket will tell you to wait 6 months, but they'll also tell you the things to watch for in Blake to see if he's ready for solids. (does he watch you eat? Try to rab food out of your hands?). It's super frustrating when they are in a great routine and then it all goes out the window, huh?  ------------- 
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 9:02am
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Hmmmm I'm not sure I would start solids since he was prem.. he wouldn't quite be 4 months corrected would he?
There were posts on making "super milk" some time ago, might be worth a search |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 9:04am
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he may be waking for other reasons and then deciding hes hungry... so is he too warm/cold?
make sure you are drinking enough water and if you are worried about your milk you could check out the recipes section for the lactation cookie recipe. I dont think you need to supplement (but thats my personal opinion and something i have never done). My other thought is maybe feed him both sides before changing, and making sure he isnt up for longer than an hour/ hour and a half at a time. oh and last piece of advice here.... not all babies respond well to the dream feed. I know that eden did for a little while but it got to a stage that the more i was feeding her the more she wanted.... so maybe you could knock out the 7pm feed or the dream feed and just see if he wakes by himself. hang in there.... they change all the time and i am sure that at about 4 mths eden went thru a stage of night waking after sleeping thru too. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 9:06am
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slow poster here... yeah i agree with stacey i dont think solids would be the way to go either... i know that even tho eden was showing the traditional signs like watching us eat etc she didnt really want the food... and i know too that solids wont necessarily make them sleep thru. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: josephnia
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 9:08am
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He has just started rolling form tummy to back and getting better with reaching out for things and holding them. He does watch me eat but still has that thing where he pokes his tongue out when I've tried to give him gripe water with a syringe.
His corrected age puts him at about 3 1/2 months - I'm never really sure if I should go by that age or his actual age? The baby whisperer book suggests putting 4 month olds on a four hour routine but that would mean he'd drop a day feed and I can't see that working for us? Gah, who knows? I'll have a search for that post thanks Stacey  -------------
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Posted By: josephnia
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 9:13am
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Yeah Bizzy, I wonder about that dreamfeed because it doesn't seem to extend his sleep any and as hard as I try I always end up waking him up so it feels like I'm just enforcing the 3 hourly feeds IYKWIM?
Thanks for the suggestions guys, I feel better knowing that at least there are things I can try. You know the saying ' the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result' ? - that's how I'm feeling at the moment! -------------
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Posted By: MrsMojo
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 9:16am
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Michaela went through a major growth spurt at around 4 1/2 mths and I felt like I was constantly feeding her. She'd get so upset and scream to be fed and I had to drop everything and feed her. I co-slept and fed in my sleep so that wasn't so bad but the daytimes were a write off with constant feeds, several times I'd be driving somewhere during the day and had to pull over, park and fed her in the backseat. She'd also been a colicky baby and this went away at 4 months so maybe she was enjoying food more too. I decided to start her on solids thinking that my milk wasn't cutting it but the solids didn't help either, she was just extremely hungry. The good news is that for Michaela the stage was short lived (about 2 weeks max) and then she got back into routine. -------------  
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Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 9:23am
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Ethan didnt sleep through till bout 6 months and not every night till 2 weeks ago.. and he is FF.. and for him solids didn't make much of a difference(though they do for a lot of bubs we know) 6-8 months of being the only one who gets up all night every night really did my head in so though I don;t have any advice I totally feel for you.. ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: BugTeeny
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 9:57am
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Oops, I didn't read your post properly - I'll retract my solids comment
I didn't realise he was born early, sorry. (although, having said that, I guess Hannah's one of the exceptions where solids worked wonders for her - and I know my milk was in full-swing production, too). I hope it's just a stage he's going through, where he's just always hungry. I hope it settles down soon to give you a bit of a break. -------------
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Posted By: aussiegirl
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 10:54am
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I went to a course on the Growing baby 4 - 6 months, and the educator stressed that at 4 months, most babies go through a change of sleeping patterns and the best thing to do is ride it out! Feed when they are hungry and like Bizzy said, keep him up for the hour and half, feeding on both sides.
She also said it doesnt necessarily mean they are ready for solids even though they could be showing some of the signs...its all confusing being a mum, hey! I really hope Blake settles down for you soon, Jo, and this stage doesnt last too long! It sounds like you are doing a great job  -------------  Mum to Hayley **30.6.08
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Troods
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 12:14pm
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I don't think solids would be the way to go just yet. Did you get a Prem Babies Feeding Guide from the hospital or Plunket? There's a calculation sheet in there to help you decide when to start. You calculate the dates falling 16 wks after birth date and 16 wks after due date, then find the mid-point between those two dates, which will give you the earliest date it's suggested to start considering solids. It's only a suggested starting date though and best to look out for the other cues. But then it says the latest date baby should be ready to start solids by is 7 months after birth date.
It sounds like what Blake is doing is completely normal, esp if he is still a happy smiley baby. Ems was exactly the same. I even had the same nightime feed change routine that you describe. I just rode it out because I figured she was having a growth spurt, and being prem and IUG as well I wanted to make sure she was getting plenty of feeds when she needed them. Eventually she settled down to longer stretches of 5-6 hours then 7-8 hours. But now at 7 and 1/2 months she's doing the same thing again. Did an 11 hour stretch a week ago, but gone back to 7-8 hours then only 5-6, and now all over the place so again I'm just going with it until she's ready to settle back to longer stretches. Also, I tried dreamfeeds but found that they didn't really make a differences so I ended up dropping them altogether - Ems was just one of those babies that they didn't work for. Sorry for the long post but hope it helps. ------------- 
 Missed MC July 2011
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Posted By: Troods
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 12:19pm
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Sorry, me again. The feeding guide I was talking about is called First Foods for Premature Babies - looks like it's by Auckland City Hospital and the Auckland District Health Board. I was given mine by the KidzFirst nurses who followed up Ems care after she was discharged from Middlemore NICU. Maybe you could try to contact Auckland City Hospital or the Health Board to find out more. -------------
Missed MC July 2011
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Posted By: josephnia
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 12:21pm
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Thanks everyone, just got back from Plunket and the Karitane nurse also suggested dropping the dreamfeeds, make sure I'm eating well and resting (!?) and to try the Family Centre. She did say he might be ready for solids but when I reminded her he was prem that kind of changed her mind I think. She also said about feeding only one side at a time to make sure he gets the hindmilk but I think I'm feeding him long enough for that to happen, at least on the first side if he gets both (if that makes sense!)
The Plunket guide for solids for prems is to start them 6 months from their birth date so that's another 6 weeks or so for us. -------------
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Posted By: josephnia
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 12:29pm
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Thanks TrudandEm, we never got any info, maybe because he was in SCBU not NICU? We were at NSH the whole time.
Oh, and weighed him today, he's 5.72kg, he's put on 640gm in a month - is that enough? That would be about 160gm a week. Are there any guidelines as to how much they should be gaining? -------------
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Posted By: Troods
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 12:50pm
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SCBU and NICU is one in the same - depends who you're talking too. The nurses at Middlemore referred to it as one or the other or even NNU. Strange you didn't get the info sheet. Plunket will tell you 6 months from date of birth for starting solids, but the Kidzfirst nurses told me that sometimes this can be too long for premmies, because premmies have had to learn to suck and feed earlier, they are sometimes ready to start solids earlier too. I found the pamphlet on the ADHB website - here's the link (hope it works) http://www.adhb.govt.nz/newborn/Guidelines/Nutrition/PremSolids.pdf
He's a good weight for a premmie and IUG baby, and the weight gain sounds normal too. I think your doing everything right and have a good milk supply. I used to worry about my milk supply but turns out it was and still is fine. Ems hasn't been weighed in a while so I don't know her weight but I think she has only just ticked over 6kg (think she's going to be a petite'un though, just like me )-------------
Missed MC July 2011
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Posted By: josephnia
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 1:17pm
Thanks for that, that pamphlet is really interesting and Blake ticks off a lot of the readiness questions. According to the pamphlet the earliest date for solids for him would be 4 October, and the latest 30 Dec so I guess anywhere in that range is ok. I think I'll leave it for a couple of weeks, see how things go and try introducing a little bit then. Thanks so much for the info  -------------
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Posted By: Troods
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 1:21pm
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No probs. Glad the pamphlet helps. I found it really helpful. I just started slowly with Ems. Didn't rush things. If she wasn't interested I would leave it a few days or a week before trying again. Good luck -------------
Missed MC July 2011
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Posted By: aussiegirl
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 1:28pm
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Good luck with the Family Centre, Jo
the one here in Hamilton really got us on the right track when hayley was 7 weeks old
On average Hayley has put on around 160grams per week over the last month, Plunket were happy with that ------------- Mum to Hayley **30.6.08
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: busymum
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 7:48pm
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I haven't had premmies, but I noticed growth spurts at 3 1/2 months and at 4 1/2 months. For the first one (which is what I would suggest to you now, because you had a premmie) I needed to ride it out, have lots of rest, eat and drink really, really well (mw suggested complan and also milkshakes with coconut cream in them ) and feed on demand.
With the second growth spurt (and I would have thought it would be ok for you to do this in 2-4 weeks time), that's when I introduced solids. I am surprised that Plunket recommends introducing solids at 6mos for premmies because that is what they suggest for full-term babies also. But 4-6 months is actually ok if your baby is ready. (Again, I'm talking about full-term babies here.) ------------- |
Posted By: Snappy
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 8:12pm
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I had a post like this similar about a month ago! Mr Jackson was up several times in the night (sometimes every hour!). I tried the family centre and she suggested 3x solid meals, and leaving him to cry if he woke in the night. (i did this once and it was horrible!) I gave up in the end and decided to ride it out....
One night I took him to bed with me, with a dummy, and rocked and rocked him every time he stirred and he slept through... For some reason this broke the pattern and hes now eating really well during the day (5x feeds + 2 solids) Im pretty sure he wasnt getting enough during the day as he was only on the breast for a couple of minutes. Im only up once in the night now I really hope it gets better for you... you have my sympathy! ------------- Mummy to two beauties... Formerly Kaiz. |
Posted By: tishy
Date Posted: 06 October 2008 at 9:45pm
I'm glad you said this as we've the same in our house as well  Aoife wakes bright and chirpy before the birdies between 4 and 5 and Eimear about an hour later. We had 4 in the bed this morning as I was refusing to get up before 6:30
Jospehina, we started solids at 6 months and the girls were 5 weeks early. I don't think they were ready any earlier. Now at 8 months Plunket seem to treat them just like any other 8 month old, regarding what they should be eating. That solids guide I found useful as well. |
TrudandEm wrote: