The Plan (Warning: Long!)
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Category: Have A Baby?
Forum Name: First baby? Second or more?
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URL: https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22449
Printed Date: 11 September 2025 at 8:37pm
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Topic: The Plan (Warning: Long!)
Posted By: KiwiL
Subject: The Plan (Warning: Long!)
Date Posted: 13 November 2008 at 5:11pm
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Well, I have had another disastrous breast feeding day. Time and time again Jackson has refused the breast after a super-short feed and then cried half an hour later as he is still hungry. Because of this, he has barely slept either.
I just don't know what I am doing wrong and I am feeling so down and depressed. Jackson's latch is good and he feeds so well at the beginning but then spits the breast out. I have a good milk supply (though I fear it is getting less by the day) and a good flow. I have had a Lactation Consultant visit twice, have been to the Karitane-Plunket Family Centre several times and seen a paediatrician. I have spent hours on the internet and reading books trying to find ways to make things better. God knows I have annoyed the hell out of people here with my constant worrying and questions! I have tried multiple suggestions (though no-one can see anything obviously wrong) but things seem to be getting worse, not better. I have been trying so very hard not to get upset and cry over this, but at the moment I am losing that battle. I just feel completely gutted. For the last couple of weeks I have been "force feeding" Jackson. I just keep latching him on the breast over and over again. On the positive side, his weight gain has improved... that is fantastic, and I am pleased about that. But on the negative side, he gets so mad at me, I hate to say it but I feel mad with him at times and we are sacrificing all other quality time (like play and cuddles) because feeding him can take the entire awake time that he has. I love breast feeding him, and feel so bonded to him when it goes well (ie at the beginning of the feed) but then it all turns to custard and it's not so amazing anymore. So... I have a plan. I am going to continue the little "force feeding" routine that we have until Monday. He is being weighed on Monday, so then I will have some history of how that has worked. Then, for the whole week following, I am going to go back to letting him fully control the feeds. I will let him stop when he wants to stop (though I fully expect sleep and routine to go out the window, as he generally comes back hungry within the hour). Then we will have him weighed again so we can have a direct comparison between the two approaches. I expect him to reduce his weight gain again, back to levels it used to be. If that does indeed happen, then I will look at other options. I expect that to be a formula top up regime of some description - either top ups at every feed, or a couple of full formula feeds per day. Obviously I will need advice on this when the time comes. Realistically, I feel that this spells the beginning of the end. I don't think that breast/formula feeding is sustainable long term (correct me if I am wrong!!) as I think he will eventually prefer the bottle to me. Please don't think that I have anything against people who formula feed, because I don't, but I still feel completely devastated. Breast feeding was the one thing I truly believed I could do well for Jackson and it was the one thing I really, really wanted to be successful at. So, to be honest, I am feeling quite heartbroken. Although I know it is hardly the end of the world, I feel like I am letting him down. So.... crossed fingers, prayers, fairy dust, whatever that, by some miracle, Jackson starts to thrive on his own terms and we can continue as planned. Sorry for the rant... I find it a bit therapeutic to write things down and I could do with a few kind words at the moment. PS... I still blame the bloody teeth!! Everything was going so well until they came along! |
Replies:
Posted By: catisla
Date Posted: 13 November 2008 at 5:17pm
Hey Laurie - just to say  my chicky, and Jackson is a gorgeous wee man so you are doing right by him.
I've said this before, but i really believe the big thing is for a baby to have a relaxed and happy mum. I know you will be upset to give up breast feeding if you need to do so, but this will be off-set by you being much happier, less stressed, and having more quality time with Jackson x ps. sorry - no realistic advice - just a bit of support! pps. i think it is a good plan BTW! ------------- |
Posted By: gemsmum
Date Posted: 13 November 2008 at 6:23pm
No-one can say you haven't given breastfeeding everything!! I'm impressed with your perserverance considering all the issues you have had. Some people do successfully mixed feed (breast and bottle) so don't write it off yet! 
It will be interesting to see what Jackson does when you let him dictate the pace - he may yet surprise you. Does having this plan help? I know I like to have plans in place and it helps me relax a bit. Good luck and keep us informed! Debs ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: Mum2L
Date Posted: 13 November 2008 at 6:56pm
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I haven't had my child yet, but have you considered just feeding EBM in a bottle instead? That way you know Jackson is getting the health benefits of breast milk. I know I am no expert, but it is better than going onto formula.
I am a member of a Livejournal community called breastfeeding ( http://community.livejournal.com/breastfeeding/profile - linky ) and the people on there are fantastic for advice. All the entries from July onwards have been locked, so you need to join. The link I have provided is the profile page of the community and how to go about joining. For me personally, if my child does do what yours is doing, and I more than happy just to be pumping my milk and feeding it to him in a bottle. I only see formula as an absolute last resort. Hopefully you can sort it out soon ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: FionaO
Date Posted: 13 November 2008 at 8:01pm
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You are a super wonderful mum, just don't forget it. We are currently mixing bottle and breast ok, so you never know that might work out ok. I find it a little frustrating what a happier baby he is after a bottle but I am starting to think that happiness and calm is what really matters.
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Posted By: denny25
Date Posted: 13 November 2008 at 9:04pm
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hugs
all i can say is i know how you feel - it is heartbreaking. |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 13 November 2008 at 9:16pm
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Aw don't beat yourself up you have given it more than a fair chance, and also maybe next week when things are a bit more relaxed and he can set the pace he might surprise you and start feeding better (fingers crossed for you that he does). I was also going to suggest EBM instead of formula if you want to top him up, expressing would also help you keep your supply up if you are worried about it dropping off. But if you do go the formula route it isn't so bad, most important thing is that he is loved and fed (by whichever means necessary).
I also know what it is like to wean earlier than you had hoped and expected to, it is totally normal to be upset about it and we are all hear to listen to you and give you cyber hugs whenever you need them. ------------- 
 
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Posted By: Nefertiti
Date Posted: 13 November 2008 at 10:09pm
Teeth?  ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: choco69
Date Posted: 13 November 2008 at 10:42pm
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i know you feel really frustrated by all this, and it's understandable
my sister went thru with with her eldest, when he was 6 weeks she gave up force feeding and changed to doing formula every second feed, so she still got the bonding and benefits for him of breastfeeding and she got the benefits of him being full, her doctor told her it was because he was growing quickly so his growth wasn't being sustained by her mlk - and the bonus is she kept breastfeeding even when he started on solids and only stopped when he was 13 months. She had no problems with her other 2 boys so she has no idea why he was unhappy with just breast milk, sometimes babies can be fusspots hang in there you are doing a superb job under very trying circumstances 
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Posted By: KiwiL
Date Posted: 14 November 2008 at 8:34am
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Thanks for the comments guys. I have real trouble expressing, not sure why. If Jackson hasn't fed off a boob, I can only get about 40ml from it. I feel like I am doing something wrong. When I express I have a warm drink, try to relax and look at pics of Jackson, but I still do a terrible job.
So - not sure how to make that better! Nefertiti - yep! Teeth! Jackson had two teeth erupt at two weeks old. One of those caused ulcerations under his tongue, and the other came through at a really bad angle and caused his little gum to swell. It made feeding awful and he would wimper in pain when he ate. In the end, over the course of two visits a week apart, both teeth were removed. The one causing the swelling was really loose and had to go, but I still regret having the other pulled as it looked fine. But, at the end of the day, the ulcers were too painful for him and I don't see what other options we had. Anyway, our feeding was great before hand, but during this he started feeding less and less (and losing weight), and we've never quite recovered, even five weeks down the track. Part of me wonders if his wee stomach shrunk and he's never stretched it properly again. It also means that his suck isn't very strong and he tends to chew, which isn't great for my flow. What made it worse, and started the whole force feeding game, was going to Plunket and, after weigh-in, being asked if I was sure I "was trying hard enough?" In other words, their opinion is that I wasn't trying hard enough, which was just gutting. And it started a real spiral of unhappiness. It's just so disappointing. 
The more I think about it too, the more I wonder if in fact my supply has diminished or is currently diminishing. I am going to start pumping after every feed again for a few days to see if I can build it up. It's tiring though! (Edited to add the bit about Plunket) |
Posted By: KiwiL
Date Posted: 14 November 2008 at 8:39am
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Oh, and we've decided to stop the force feeding game immediately. Because Jackson gets so upset, we figure that we have to stop that now.
The last thing I want is for him to associate breastfeeding with being angry and upset as I think that will be just as damaging. Plus, it seems a huge amount of effort for just a few more mls of feed. DH thinks we should go to one formula feed before bed as of next week. His theory is if I know he is getting one nutrient-rich meal a day, at least, then I don't need to worry so much during the day and just let him feed as much as he wants to during the day. I am pretty sure that's the way we will go (as in, one full feed a day as opposed to multiple bottle top ups), but would appreciate thoughts as to whether we should start now, or give it another week after Monday. We had a nice (albeit short) feed this morning, with smiles and cuddles (and vomit on my chest, but hey!) and it just felt so much better. But I worry he hasn't eaten enough of course. |
Posted By: aussiegirl
Date Posted: 14 November 2008 at 8:51am
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You are a for persevering for so long.
to you...it sounds like you and your DH are working together to make the right decisions for Jackson and your family.
Take care of yourselves  -------------  Mum to Hayley **30.6.08
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Nefertiti
Date Posted: 14 November 2008 at 9:32am
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aww the poor wee chap! I hope this improve from now on! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: FionaO
Date Posted: 14 November 2008 at 10:34am
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Cannot believe Plunket said are you trying hard enough, you have tried so hard at all of this. It makes me sad they would say something like that. -------------
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Posted By: MrsMojo
Date Posted: 14 November 2008 at 11:01am
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Re: Expressing have you tried expressing off one boob while Jackson feeds off the other. When he stimulates let down it shoudl work on both sides which means the hardest part of expressing is done for you. Re: bottle/breast mixed I managed to breast feed and bottle feed for 10 mths so if you do decide to start using the bottle please don't think of it as the beginning of the end. Good luck. -------------  
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Posted By: KiwiL
Date Posted: 14 November 2008 at 1:24pm
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Thanks to everyone for the support.
I read today about the amount of formula a baby should drink. It says at 2 months baby should drink 120 - 180mls! Jackson only drinks 95ml of EBM, so I suspect he needs to increase his appetite. Any suggestions? I do express while Jackson is latched, but still don't seem to get much more! |
Posted By: xLUCKYx
Date Posted: 14 November 2008 at 2:01pm
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Hi kiwilaurie - wow you have done such an amazing job! so many would have given up long ago!
It may help to know that many do find success with a combo of formula and breast. When I went back to work Gabrielle took formula feeds during work hours and breast at other times with no probs. Not the same for every baby but you never know. Also - every baby is different with regards to their appetite so don't worry about Jackson having a wee bit less. My best piece of advice for you is to stick to your plan with just breastfeeding him for the rest of the week. Try not to stress too much if he doesn't feed well as this will affect your milk supply - just go with the flow. I would try and stick to a three hour routine. Feed, play - sleep then feed after three hours. I used to have to distract Gabrielle as she was a snacker wanting to come back for more an hour later but I stretched the spaces between feeds out 15 mins at a time doing things like walking around the house or getting the mail. It let her build up a better appetite. Also I started using a dummy at about 6 weeks - sometimes they just want to suck. Also sorry if you have heard this all before!! I just saw this post and thought would share my two cents. Wishing you all the very best!! ETA - I also think the idea of a formula feed before bed is a good one to try out! Or EBM - warm flannels or a hot shower before expressing helps and it's important to be relaxed :) Good luck! |
Posted By: peachy
Date Posted: 14 November 2008 at 5:16pm
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Maybe its his lack of appetite as opposed to problems with you and b/f that are the root of your problem? I am pretty sure he won't want to starve himself when you are offering good milk on tap!!
Maybe he's just going to take a good few months to build up a good appetitie and start to have good weight gains? A friends baby has had very slow weight gains and she has persevered and struggled with b/f. Her baby is now 4 months old and is gaining weight like a trouper, but he has only just started gaining good weights in the last month, she's finally happy with b/f and is going great! Just some suggestions really, you have made a fantastic effort, so pat yourself on the back you have got this far! The best thing that helped me b/f was relaxing, the more stressed I got over feeding, the more problems I had  ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: tropics
Date Posted: 14 November 2008 at 6:07pm
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Hey hun
You really have done so blimin well you really are a
Dont pay to much attention to the tin of formula Jayden never drinks the amount on the tin (180ml) he will drink between 80-150ml per feed and usually around 100ml so always well less than the amount on the tin. I believe that bubs will drink what he needs to drink really I know youve been to a pediatrician but do they not think its reflux? sorry if youve said this before? but Jayden has reflux and when its playing up he doesnt want to drink much and I have to force feed him until his meds are working again! I also expressed and its blimin hard work! I eventually dried up but hey I figure you can only do what you can do and you really have given it your best hun! at the end of the day you both need to be happy and enjoy each other however way you do that is totally your decision ------------- http://lilypie.com">    [/url]
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 14 November 2008 at 7:54pm
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I'm sorry you're having to go through this hun.
Don't worry about the formula tins - Jack never drinks the right about and he's fine. I will say one thing about expressing though - it is really, really hard work if you choose to express full time (as someone mentioned above and said it was better than formula). I could only last 3 weeks before my supply diminished because you have to express close to a feed so you keep your supply up, but often things come up like an unsettled baby etc. Part time expressing/FF is doable as is BF/FF but I just thought it best (as the previous poster said they had no experience about the issue) to share my experience. I found there was no time to spend with DS as I was pumping. Maybe what MrsMojo (I think) said about pumping off one side while bubs feeds off the other might stimulate more. Hugs hun, what will be will be and you really need to remind yourself you have done your best. Feeding is a two-way street - you both have to be good at it to make it work and obviously you're doing well so don't feel like you have failed Jackson at all hun. |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 14 November 2008 at 8:37pm
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Just another one here to say that my wee one never drank as much as the tin said, never even close to it. Also he would never get into a 3 hour pattern the most he ever went between feeds was 2 hourly, this was on the breast and also when weaned at 3 months. He only went 3 hourly once solids were introduced. Some babies just need to feed little and often.
I expressed full time for 4 weeks and did half and half for about 6 weeks so it is doable but then my boobs went off like sprinklers for the pump or for Spencer or from me just thinking about feeding Like Emz said though sometimes things can get in the way but I found the best thing to do when mixed feeding was to pump off the side Spencer wasn't feeding from and then when expressing full time I would pump every 3-4 hours and would try to do it when Spencer was asleep . I invested in a double pump as well so could express a whole feed out in 10 mins. Also I didn't dry up from expressing I stopped cos I kept getting infections so it is possible to keep pumping for long periods so long as you aren't infection prone.
With your plan I also agree with whoever said just let him have the week, don't introduce any top ups just yet and just see how you get on with the more relaxed attitude towards feeding. And don't panic about not getting much out expressing, some women just don't it doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with your supply. If that doesn't work then I think your plan to give a formula feed before bed is a good one, that way he only has one bottle a day so boobie will still be the norm and he is less likely to reject you for the easier bottle and you never know a few weeks down the track you might be able to dump that bottle feed again. -------------
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Posted By: KiwiL
Date Posted: 15 November 2008 at 9:05am
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You guys are awesome!! There is so much hope in these comments. You've all given me a bit of your time and I can't say how much I appreciate it.
But to be honest, I am not sure I have it in me much longer. Jackson is just refusing the breast time and time again after just a few minutes of sucking. We had one feed last night, where he swallowed greedily for 13 minutes, so I know what a full feed should be like. Every other one over the last 24 hours has been rubbish. I don't understand why he is not starving. When I am not trying to give him the breast he is really happy. I thought he might have a sore throat, so I took him to the doctor but he said everything looked fine. So, I have these boobies just full of milk and I can't even express it as I am so upset and stressed. I just don't see how this can continue. |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 15 November 2008 at 9:27am
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This might sound a little odd but have you tried feeding him in the bath? The water will relax him and you and if he refuses then just let him snuggle into you for bit so he gets the skin to skin without the stress of feeding. Might help you relax a bit as well as they can definitely pick up when mummy is stressed out. -------------
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Posted By: caraMel
Date Posted: 15 November 2008 at 9:45am
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Great idea Marisa!, Benjy loved feeding in the bath!
------------- Mel, Mummy to E: 6, B: 4 and: 
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Posted By: KiwiL
Date Posted: 15 November 2008 at 10:07am
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That is a good idea - he loves the bath, so I will give that a go.
I'm over my big cry at the moment, and the upset has been replaced by determination again!! I am such a rollercoaster of emotions at the moment.
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Posted By: KiwiL
Date Posted: 19 November 2008 at 8:55am
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Well, Jackson was weighed on Monday, and put on 200g in the last week.
I was pleased with that, so have moved to phase two of the plan - just letting him feed for as long as he wants. It's a little stressful, as feed times have got shorter again, but I am trying to just relax and not get upset at all. Hopefully he surprises me and keeps gaining at a good rate. Will keep you posted.... |