Sleep Sense Program
Printed From: OHbaby!
Category: Have A Baby?
Forum Name: First baby? Second or more?
Forum Description: Want help? Need support? Want tips? Men and women share advice and tips in this supportive community
URL: https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24479
Printed Date: 17 August 2025 at 7:46pm
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Topic: Sleep Sense Program
Posted By: JoJames
Subject: Sleep Sense Program
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 5:10pm
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Because I am at my wits end, I am considering this. Has any one had great success with it? I like the look of the person who wrote it. I'm also not a fan of CC or CIO ------------- http://www.alterna-tickers.com"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: angel4
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 7:29pm
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We are on our 6th night of this programme. It is working really well for us so far but is sometimes hard work. I was anti CC or CIO methods but this book explains things well and made me feel a lot better about doing it.
Dont want to go on and on but.... Henry was waking every hour during the night and only ever sleeping for 40 minutes at a time during the day. I was a walking time bomb and a wreck. He is now waking twice during the night - and thats only because we haven't tried weaning him yet (gonna wait a few more months) and has 3sleeps a day about an hour to an hour and a half each. I am feeling more human again (finally). I would fully recommend it. Other people in my antenatal coffee group are doing it too and all have had positive results. Do you have a copy of the book? |
Posted By: hannibal
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 7:36pm
| Hi, what is this? |
Posted By: angel4
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 7:55pm
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Its a programme to help teach your child to fall asleep on their own
The person who wrote it believes in a clear bedtime routine, some crying and a lot of reasurance. |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 8:17pm
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oh...that sounds pretty much like I did with Caitlyn .
dinner, bath , stories, songs ,kiss cuddle , lights out . Shes always been a good sleeper . except for now ,because apparently "Bon Jovi is in her wardrobe " (I don't know why Bon Jovi) . But anyway, using this type of method always worked well with her. ------------- 
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Posted By: FionaO
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 8:18pm
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been meaning to post, we're using bits of it and find it pretty useful, angel is totally right, somehow explaining about babies crying makes me feel ok when he does cry for a bit, he is settling by himself much better.
We are perhaps taking it a bit slower, sitting with him when he first goes down and we are using a dummy still for now and will progress onto no props but already going to sleep by himself we have had longer daytime sleeps for the first time in ages. ------------- 
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Posted By: tishy
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 9:55pm
What I want to know is it '80s Bon Jovi or '00s Bon Jovi? 
We had a well defined bedtime routine for the girls as well. Made a big difference. Now it's just bottle, teeth, bed, lights out. |
caitlynsmygirl wrote:Posted By: Kels
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 11:05pm
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I heart the sleep sense program. I did the CC method and it totally worked a treat. There was nothing more rewarding then seeing my 7 1/2 mth old smiling and snuggling into his pillow the 4th night of using it. He has loved his sleep times every since and has been a great sleeper ever since too. 18mths down the track my son toddles off to bed and snuggles down so happily no matter what the time is day or night.. Did I mention I heart the sleep sense prog lol
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Posted By: Kels
Date Posted: 11 February 2009 at 11:08pm
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So that is where he is lol Gosh if it were my girl she would have Prince in there, she cant get enough of his music lol |
Posted By: angel4
Date Posted: 12 February 2009 at 9:16am
| just thought id post an undate on how its going for us - last night was our 6th night and henry our almost 6month old son went to sleep within 10minutes (a little protest when first put down but no crying) at 7pm and slept until 2am when he had a feed and then through til 7am (i think he may have slept longer but he could hear people up). I am stocked!!! He has now gone down for his morning nap - he went down at 9am and is out to it. I am so happy with this programme. Im telling everyone about it lol |
Posted By: JoJames
Date Posted: 12 February 2009 at 9:20am
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I'm so trying it, thanks its good to hear success stories. I will start on Monday cause we are going away this weekend. ------------- http://www.alterna-tickers.com">
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Posted By: FionaO
Date Posted: 12 February 2009 at 9:40am
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Angel thats fantastic news!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am mainly using it to help him go down, he has always been good once down and today at 9 I put him down wide awake, sat with him for 5 minutes, no rocking or nothing, he had the dummy for a few mins, i took it out and he fell asleep, just like that - brill. I am going to slowly reduce this time i sit there, but i'm sure putting him down awake helps him stay down longer. -------------
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Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 12 February 2009 at 10:01am
Tishy, I believe its the 80s BJV, because I asked her what hes doing in her room and apparently hes in there singing "living on the stair " which I believe is "living on a prayer " -------------
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Posted By: Redbedrock
Date Posted: 12 February 2009 at 2:03pm
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Bif fan here too, Kels and i were doing it at about the same time, and worked a treat for both of us. I remmebr emailing around my illisicit electronic copy on here. sorry all gone now as the virus ate it. Even now I refer back to it when we have little hiccups. Fay came out of hospital in october (after chicken pox) and her sleep settling ahd gone to pot. 3 nights of the methods and we are back to nromal again. If ( and it's a big if) we have another, I will use sleep sense from the start, not after no sleep for 8 months ------------- http://www.babysfirstsite.com"> 
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Posted By: AzzaNZ
Date Posted: 12 February 2009 at 3:15pm
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We've been following it with our 2 year old. She's been waking every hour since birth.
So far its been going great! We're down to 2, max 3 wake-ups a night now. We did have a hiccup where she got sick 2 weeks ago but getting back into it again now. |
Posted By: angel4
Date Posted: 12 February 2009 at 3:59pm
| i have a copy i can email to people if they want it. Just PM me. Though we are moving next week so may not have internet connection for a bit after we move. |
Posted By: xcoder1997
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 5:02am
can you email it to me? thanks. |
Posted By: bun_in_the_oven
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 7:56am
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i read it... and took bits from it..
if you are at your witts end i would say its a good place to start... really helped us Good Luck |
Posted By: GingerBaby
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 8:14am
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i'm reading it at the moment and will start this weekend so it's not too bad on dh since he has to go to work... wish me luck! -------------  |
Posted By: Mrs_B
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 11:15am
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Mr 10mths has been a terrible sleeper since he was 5 weeks old (I was the 6 week growth spurt that never ended!) He was still feeding up to four times a night, and being in his own room and with me breastfeeding meant I was the one left to deal with it. As of Friday night we went cold turkey with the feeds, if he wakes he gets water in a sippy cup, a cuddle and put back to bed. People have told me it will take 3 nights and then he will get it, my child obviously is the exception to the rule.... -------------  
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Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 12:45pm
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Where do you get the book from? ------------- 
 Oct 11
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Posted By: angel4
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 1:32pm
| Those of you that have PMed me asking for a copy of this. I will have to hunt it down as it is on our old computer. I will send it through as soon as i can though |
Posted By: Nikki
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 2:46pm
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I used it with Jake (at 6 months), who had been an awesome sleeper til he got sick at 5.5months and woke every hour or so for 2 nights, then kept waking when he got better a couple of times a night. It took two nights and by the third he cried for about 2 mins then that was it - he went back to sleeping through and self settling and has been an awesome sleeper since.
We used it last week to get Morgan off the dummy. she was a great sleeper but I wanted to drop the dummy sooner rather than later. It took a week for her to settle better without it, but now she makes no noise or just a little talking / grizzling when she goes down most of the time. she doesn't wake in the night but still wakes early in the morning (so I suspect she is just an early riser and that wasn't the dummys fault!) ------------- DS (5yrs) and DD (3yrs) |
Posted By: angel4
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 7:59pm
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Sent it through to a few tonight. I am only sending it to people i know are on ohbaby and actually post on here regularly. If i managed to miss you pm me again. I had quite a few to send it to and my brain really isnt what it used to be.
Thought i would add that Henry is still a great sleeper 1 year on. And takes himself to bed with no protest. 
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Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 8:22pm
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Thanks Kyla. How old was he when you started. I think it must be great to have a good sleeper! -------------
Oct 11
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Posted By: angel4
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 9:10pm
| he was one week off 6months. I was going crazy waking every hour at night. He occasionally wakes during the night sometimes but very rarely and its generally cuz he's sick or teething or something and it never lasts very long. |
Posted By: aklgirl
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 9:14pm
| Hi ladies, I haven't been on here for a long time with having a baby etc, moving house, no internet etc etc. Anyway I have a gorgeous 3 month old son who is generally placid but as parents we fell into the trap of rocking him to bed. My husband works shift so when he would get home late he would cuddle our son and our son would fall asleep. I tried the "save our sleep" routines and did this for a week and what a nightmare. I have heard people have fantastic results with this but it didnt work for me! For the first time since having my son I was in tears. Basically the routine said wake at 7am, feed, put to bed at 9am (self settle), wake 11am, feed, bed at 1pm, wake 3pm, feed, bath 5.15pm, 6.30pm feed, 7pm sleep, 10.30pm dream feed etc. Well I would wake at 7am, feed a half sleepy baby sometimes! Then he was tired and I would put him down at 9am, he would sleep 45mins to 1hr and wake. I then had to cuddle him to try and keep him sleeping. Then it was a battle to hold him out to 11am for the next feed, then hold him out till 1pm to sleep, again sleep 45min - 1hr. Then he would fall asleep aroune 4pm and I would wake him for bath at 5.15, then trying to keep him awake till 6.30pm for a feed was a nightmare. He'd fall asleep feeding then I would put him to bed and he would wake up crying. The self settling method they use in save our sleep is put him to bed awake, let continuous cry for 8 mins, go back in and pat for 22mins non stop. Prob after 8mins of crying he wsa hysterical and nothing would stop him crying, shaking, etc. So I gave him and cuddle him to sleep! Really I just want help with him self settling and have been so down and depressed with this the last week or so. Hence I am at Mums and on the net looking for answers and came across this post. What is Sleep Sense - a summary of it would be great and is the book called Sleep Sense? Has it worked for everyone you know? Just keen on some advice. Thanks and sorry for the long post |
Posted By: HippyMama
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 10:00pm
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aklgirl - it sounds like you were having a really stressful time trying to implement such a strict routine, I'm sorry it was such a struggle for you. I'm also curious as to why you described rocking your son to sleep as a "trap", was it causing you or him any stress?
Your son is still very young, and I there are a couple of books that I would highly recommend if you are wanting to find other ways to help your son settle at nap / sleep times. The first is 'Sleeping Like a Baby' by Pinky McKay, and the other is 'The No Cry Sleep Solution' by Elizabeth Pantley. Best of luck with finding a solution that works for you both, with the least amount of upset 
------------- Mama to two earth walkers & two angels. Remember, you are not managing an inconvenience; You are raising a human being. ~ Kittie Franz Next Slingbabies! Meet - Friday 4th May !! |
Posted By: aklgirl
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 10:10pm
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Hi Hippy Mumma, I want to get out of the rocking to sleep pattern as this is the only way for him to go to sleep and means everytime he wakes I need to rock him to sleep. He is getting heavy, I get a sore back and it can take up to 1 hour.... I'd like to be able to comfort him but then put him to sleep and let him drift off, so he can then do this through the night and during the day.
Thanks for the books you recommended, I'll give them a try. If others rock there babies to sleep, how long do you do it for, when did you wean off it or did the babies start sleeping on there own? |
Posted By: HippyMama
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 10:30pm
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I don't rock my baby to sleep as I'd imagine it would be pretty time intensive for us too, but we do feed to sleep and it works really well for us - and hasn't created any problems at all. This is not for every sleep though, as if we are out and about she sleeps on me in a sling / carrier which has been an awesome tool, I'm not too sure we would be coping without it!
------------- Mama to two earth walkers & two angels. Remember, you are not managing an inconvenience; You are raising a human being. ~ Kittie Franz Next Slingbabies! Meet - Friday 4th May !! |
Posted By: Mamma2N
Date Posted: 09 March 2010 at 11:21pm
aklgirl, my DD is 11mths and she is generally either fed/rocked or both to sleep - most of the time I just lie in bed with her till she drifts off then transfer her to her cot... during the night she usually ends up in bed with us. To answer your question - we went a little backward! DD was always a great sleeper, sleeping through 12hours by 12 weeks  ... This all changed around christmas and hasn't been the same since  I figure it is only for a short time and sooner or later she won't need/want me to help her get off to sleep. A few weeks ago I tried to in a sense 'wean' her from being rocked to sleep, but it caused far too much anguish for the two of us.. instead I now figure we'll do what needs to be done, go with the flow and accept that for the time being this is what DD needs to help her feel secure
I also wear her daily in our SSC, means I can get on with housework and she can snooze away.. I fully recommend looking into a carrier of some sort - like hippymama, ours are my sanity savers I also know of many people who have had great success with 'No cry sleep solution'
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Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 10 March 2010 at 8:50am
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DS2 was rocked/fed to sleep and we were bedsharing as well. When he was about 5 months he stopped 'needing' to be rocked to sleep, but he carried on feeding to sleep for about another 6 weeks and then he'd only do so intermittently and by the time he was 7 months old he refused to be 'helped' in any way.....in fact he wouldn't settle in our bed and would have to be put in his cot awake at sleep times.
We are a baby/toddler wearing family here too and it saved my sanity more than once. LOL I have done the 'routine thing with DS1 and we were all stressed out and miserable so I am of the opinion that you do what you've got to do NOW so that everyone gets the sleep they need and IF you have issues stemming from what you do you deal with them when they arise or when they become a problem for you. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: kaybee
Date Posted: 10 March 2010 at 11:56am
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every baby is different, for some a sleep 'prop' may become a problem down the track, for others it won't.
I decided to use a dummy with ds from about 4 wks, it has been great at getting him to sleep and I don't regret introducing it, but at only 3 1/2 months he has already started waking throughout the night needing it put back in. The disruption to my sleep means that i am not coping as well as i would like, and i think that removing the dummy now, even if it means a bit of crying as he gets used to it, will be better for both of us in the long run. The Sleep Sense program sounds quite good, I like that it isn't about having to have strict routines throughout the day, which as aklgirl has demonstrated can really stress some people out if that's not their style. And she doesn't tell you to just walk away and leave your baby to scream. Thanks so much for the copy angel4!
aklgirl there is heaps of info on the website, www.sleepsense.net,, they even have a live chat option, i asked them a question and they replied straight away. ------------- 
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Posted By: mollycat
Date Posted: 14 March 2010 at 3:33pm
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Oh wise ones - I need some advice.
We (read I, as DH not that helpful) introduced the Sleep Sence programme awhile back but it wasn't as successful as it could have been because Ryan had pretty severe reflux so asking him to self settle through an attack was pointless. Now that he's at a better stage with his reflux we have just started the programme again (we have just finished night 3) as he had just started daycare and gotten sick and his whole routine went out the window - we were waking at least every 2 hours. Question is - we have also just switched to baby led weaning so I feel that he is justified in having one breastfeed during the night. Am I being ridiculous on this? Or should he be making it through? I don't mind getting up once a night to feed and made the decision to make it the first time he gets up whether that's 10, 2, 1, 12, whatever. My thought process being he knows the first time he gets up he gets a feed but everytime after that he gets nothing but a bit of water and a pat and maybe he'll just learn to self settle after that. Cause I've heard of people saying they'll wait until 4am to feed but that seems counterproductive cause they might wake twice before that and then not realise why the third time they get food...iykwim What do you think? Does that sound reasonable? Phew - that was a bit of a novel. Hope it makes some sort of sense. ------------- http://tickers.cafemom.com"> 
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Posted By: HoneybunsMa
Date Posted: 14 March 2010 at 5:38pm
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I want to know about the sleep sense programme. DD was a great sleeper but is not so much atm I am going to go and try and find the no cry sleep solution if I can at the library and read that and see if it will work for us then I'll buy it. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: tiptoes
Date Posted: 14 March 2010 at 8:28pm
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aklgirl - I was rocking our son to sleep everytime too and recently I got a hammock and when trying to rock him he'd get all fidgety so I'd put him in that and rock him in that instead and he'd fall asleep really quickly. In saying that, he'd fall asleep normally in my arms within a few minutes too so not sure if that would work? Only this last week he started to take an extra 30 mins to sleep at each nap so I extended his awake time from 1 hour (going by tired signs) to 1.5 hrs and he went back to sleeping straight away (rocking in the hammock). So those are a couple of options? You can hire hammocks if you want to trial it to see if it's worthwhile, and we use one of the door frame thingys to save $$ and not use the frame. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com">  
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Posted By: kmarie
Date Posted: 14 March 2010 at 8:30pm
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DH & I also swear by the sleep sense programme. We did try everything else first - we were very much about babywearing and cuddles and rocking to sleep - including Elizabeth Pantley & Pinky McKay's books. Nothing worked :( We got to our wits end cuz at 6mths she was sleeping a max of 25-45mins twice a day then waking 1.5-2hrly overnight and taking at least that long again to get her back to sleep. I remember the night we got to the last straw: she was awake for the umpteenth time and wouldn't settle even when rocked for ages so we put her into her cot and sat there looking at her while she cried thinking 'what more can we do?!' That's when Jo got us on to this programme (thanks Jo!!!).
Just to give you a bit of background (mostly so you know what you're in for!), we found that it wasn't easy (in fact it was torture) but it was definitely worth seeing it out, even though I was convinced Bethany was the type of bubs who would scream for hours on end before finally falling asleep. We followed it *almost* to the letter using the 'stay in the room' method, then added in an extra step of staying within earshot (and reassuring constantly at first, then less as time wore on) but out of view once we were able to put her down and walk out. The first night of this programme, Bethany took 1hr35mins to fall asleep (it was agony for us sitting beside her cot, but we were at the point where there was nothing else we could try), then she woke in the night and took 2hrs8mins (we felt so mean!!) to fall asleep. And even after all that I felt like I'd had the best night in ages!!!! (Goes to show how bad it had got :P) The next night she took 45mins to fall asleep and slept for about 10hrs, and it just got better from there. So on the one hand this programme is an 'easy fix' but on the other it's definitely not if you're anything like me and swore you'd never let your baby cry themselves to sleep. It's taken time to adjust and Bethany was really clingy for about 6wks (not surprisingly!) but now it feels like we've been doing this forever - and she now chats her way to sleep most of the time, sometimes with a bit of a grizzle. And I really can't tell you enough how much of a difference it made. Bethany was always a happy baby and when she started sleeping more she became even happier - I couldn't believe it! The key is definitely consistency though - Bethany got her first cold a few months after we did the programme and we got too relaxed about how we did her bedtime, which meant we ended up going backwards with everything in a hurry. It took until she was 1 to sort her sleep out again :S So yeah... if you're going to do it, you really need to be able to commit to it, boots & all, to see if it will work for you. Oh yeah, and even when she started sleeping through overnight, her day sleeps were always hit and miss. It's only been since she started walking that for the first time in her life she's having a 2-3hr nap each day. We always treated day naps (in terms of settling) as similarly to nights as we could but I don't think the sleep sense programme worked to the letter for us in that respect. Just so's you know :) Yikes sorry for the essay!!  ------------- 
twins in heaven Oct07 Is 40:11 "He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart." |
Posted By: kmarie
Date Posted: 14 March 2010 at 8:44pm
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Mollycat - I think that if you think he still needs that overnight feed then go for it. Like you said, it does make sense to give it to him at that first wake up, then not at subsequent ones. I guess only time will tell you whether or not he'll get the message and stop waking after that initial feed, or whether he'll keep waking until the day you stop night feeds altogether. The bottom line is, you're the mummy!
To be honest though, if it were me I'd be stopping the overnight feeds - we did this at 6mths with Bethany because of her night wakings, and that combined with the sleep sense programme was what made the difference to her sleeping. I did a mixture of routine/demand feeding during the day so felt that she had plenty of milk to cover her for the night as well. That's just me though. Hope that helps? Aklgirl, sounds like the routine thing really didn't work for you hun! How stressful :( Pre-planned days like that with time frames never worked for Bethany either - all I had to go on was knowing how long she could handle being up at a time, and her tired signs. Whether she'd sleep or not when it was 'time' to was major hit and miss! I learnt not to stress, and if I knew she needed sleep but knew there was no way she's settle, I'd pop her in the sling or buggy or car and we'd keep moving for long enough to give her a decent length sleep. Once she turned 1, I got firmer with giving her a day nap, but for about a month all we achieved was 1hr of screaming then I'd get her up. I don't know what the turning point was but about 2 weeks after her first birthday she suddenly got the idea and since then I haven't known myself cuz for the first time in her life she's been sleeping 2-3hrs during the day! Sorry to ramble on, hope this helps :P -------------
twins in heaven Oct07 Is 40:11 "He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart." |
Posted By: kaybee
Date Posted: 15 March 2010 at 1:12pm
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mollycat - i also think that if he needs an extra feed at night that's fine, I think the Sleep Sense program is more about helping babies learn to get to sleep without props, rather than saying that all babies should be sleeping through the night.
And just a quick update - ds is now going to sleep without a dummy! There were a couple of times where I had to sit there while he cried for 45 mins, but within a few days he seemed to have forgotten about the dummy altogether and now coos himself off to sleep (so cute!). And we are back to just the one feed at about 4am (from 10pm feed) which is pretty good considering he's not even 4 months old yet - so yay! I think the main thing re: Sleep Sense is just the explanation is that they are crying because they are frustrated about not being able to sleep - I found that my sitting with my hand on his chest didn't actually make a difference and he settled in the same amount of time whether I stayed with him or not (max time I would leave him for was 10 mins and then only if he was grizzling rather than really crying). One time he was crying for ages and I felt incredibly bad leaving him to cry, it turned out he had wind, so it turned out my instinct was right! I think there is a definite difference between an 'I can't get to sleep' cry and a 'I am in pain/really upset' cry. -------------
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Posted By: GingerBaby
Date Posted: 15 March 2010 at 5:53pm
I  THE SLEEP SENSE PROGRAMME!!!!!!!!!
My beautiful girl is 5 & a bit months and has never ever been a good, or even ok, sleeper. She has 3 20 min naps during the day, and would sleep 1.5-2hrly at night then wake for an hour before going down again for another 1.3-2hrs. Hard work, and I read every book and sought every piece of advice before getting to this programme. DH and I decided that we'd try this one, and if it didn't work then it was time to bring in the Baby Whisperer or someone like her. Her first night it took 45 mins for her to go to sleep - I always hated leaving her crying but tbh was at the point where if the book says do it (and it explained why she needed to which was really helpful and reassuring, I felt a lot better about it) then that's what I'll do. It wasn't nice but I actually expected her to go all night so 45 mins was a relieve! She didn't actually feed all that much so when she woke at 11pm we left her 15 mins then got her up so she'd 'earnt' it and must have really needed the feed. After that she woke a couple of times over the night but went back to sleep before the recommended 10mins was up.... awesome! DH and I couldn't remember the last time we felt so good! Night 2 she went to sleep within 20 mins, woke at same time for a feed (again hadn't had much at bedtime) then went all night waking at 4am but she grizzled/talked to herself for half an hour then went back to sleep. She didn't get really wound up so I just left her to it to see what would happen. Then night 3, last night, was the same! I AM OVER THE MOON!!!!!!! It's only night 4, so still early days but we have come so far in such a short time. Feel really positive about the next few nights and more ok with letting her cry unless she goes bonkers as I know why she needs to and can tell the different cries. She's now in her jolly jumper bouncing away and tap dancing in the air, laughing away at me. Absolutely gorgeous and this is usually the beginning of witching hour! Day time is still the same but I'd far rather crack night time before rocking the day time boat. Even if we don't get any better during the day I am totally counting my blessings and loving having a happy baby to play with all day. We stuck to what the book said as we wanted to make sure we really gave it our best shot, and had allowed 3 weeks for it to start working. At the same time though I listened to my heart - it told me I needed to be tough and turn off the monitor & close doors so I couldn't hear her tears even though I knew they were happening. I had to do it for me, and hated every second but I would do it again like a shot. And I will with number 2, I'll follow this plan from birth as the alternative isn't worth going to... She was a baby that needed to feed back to sleep, and I think it's been breaking that habit and putting her to bed awake that has been the trigger for her. She's actually reasonably ok about it. When you get to the stage we've all been at (we wouldn't be on this thread otherwise!) then anything is worth a try. Go for it ladies, and be strong. Oops, another essay... sorry! ------------- |
Posted By: mollycat
Date Posted: 16 March 2010 at 2:01pm
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Thanks for the advice ladies. I think I'll stick with the one night feed at this point purely for the fact that he doesn't have a whole lot to drink right before bed and he truly sucks me dry when he wakes up. But really nice to have the opinions!
Loving the programme thus far - have even turned someone else onto it who has a really bad sleeper. ------------- http://tickers.cafemom.com">
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Posted By: kmarie
Date Posted: 16 March 2010 at 2:04pm
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Yay GingerBaby, that's so awesome to hear!!!!! Well done you
Kaybee - you're so right about mummy's instinct and the difference between the cries. And yep, that explanation about crying really helps put it in perspective eh. Yay for your DS going to sleep without a dummy - good on you!
ETA - good on you Mollecat, here's hoping he gets the idea and sleeps the rest of the night away for you after that first feed -------------
twins in heaven Oct07 Is 40:11 "He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart." |
Posted By: mollycat
Date Posted: 17 March 2010 at 7:49am
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Anyone know what this is about?
We are on night 6 of the programme and Ryan is now just waking once at night for a feed - 1am. But then he's been waking around 5 or 5:30. I've just been leaving him and he'll cry for a bit, then fall asleep (I presume cause he goes quiet) for 10-20 minutes, then wake up and cry for a bit, then go to sleep for 10-20 minutes and he'll do this until I get him up around 6.20am. Is this just a phase and he'll learn to go back to sleep? Anyone? ------------- http://tickers.cafemom.com">
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Posted By: GingerBaby
Date Posted: 18 March 2010 at 9:08am
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oh i don't know about that one mollycat, sounds frustrating for you though! i wonder if he's ready - dare i say it - to get up for the day? what time do you put him down for the night? ------------- |
Posted By: mollycat
Date Posted: 18 March 2010 at 2:41pm
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Gingerbaby - he's definitely not ready to get up. HE goes to bed at around 7.30. He used to sleep 7 - 4.30 quite regularly then sleep until 6.30 after that. Then I went back to work and he got sick and it all went to poo. So trying to get him back to schedule is NOT working well at the moment.
------------- http://tickers.cafemom.com">
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Posted By: mummymonster
Date Posted: 18 March 2010 at 4:49pm
I might just look up that web site. Though I'm starting to have my doubt that whether DS sleeps or not has very little to do with me. He's a twice a night waker these days. He slept through for 3 nights in a row and I thought I'd won some kind of prize, but alas he's back to 2 wakes a night  ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Febgirl
Date Posted: 19 March 2010 at 4:38pm
Has it been colder the last few nights to co-incide with the early waking? Apparently if your baby starts waking at 5am when it used to be later then it's most often cold waking them... ------------- Two little girls under 2! 
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Posted By: kmarie
Date Posted: 19 March 2010 at 7:47pm
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Bethany did that for a while when she was about his age. I think it co-incided with doing the sleep sense programme too. We did exactly what you're doing! Our goal was to get as close to 7am as we could. If she woke any time after about 5am we'd hold off going in cuz if we did she'd think it was time to be up for the day. Like you, we'd leave her for those initial few early morning 'wake ups' and end up getting her up around 6:15am(ish). I can't tell you how long it took, but I can say that eventually she got the idea and stopped waking so often before that point. And even started sleeping past it!! So hang in there - I think you're on the right track ;-)
Actually now that I think of it, her sleeping in later came once we started putting a heater in her room on low... it's probably too early for that yet but maybe something like an extra layer (clothing or bedding depending on which is most likely to stay on him) &/or socks etc.? Let us know how you go! :-) -------------
twins in heaven Oct07 Is 40:11 "He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart." |
Posted By: HoneybunsMa
Date Posted: 19 March 2010 at 7:56pm
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Ok I tried the stay in the room method, mainly because DD is in our room because we're living with my parents. She cried crazily for over an hour, my brothers ex came into the room and told me to leave and I did and 20mins later asleep! I tried her nap first and half an hour and abit of encouragement and asleep for 1.5hrs she hasn't done that for AGES! Last night grizzle asleep, today for a nap shout at me then sleep, tonight shout at me when I walk out of the room lol then grizzle 10mins later and asleep! I can't believe it. Only thing I've got to kill is the 5-6am wake up she settled herself about 3times this morning then she woke up crying and I gave in and fed her. I like that cuddle in the morning and she is really hungry and feeds for about 10mins which is a normal feed for her so am thinking she might not be ready to cut it out yet. Hmmm. Thanks for the programme ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: mollycat
Date Posted: 20 March 2010 at 7:14am
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Gargh! Major setback here. I was so tired that for the last two nights I've resorted back to the dummy. Gutted! But when he wakes up in the night he'll often cry for 1.5 hours before finally just conking out from exhaustion. Is this standard with other babies? The first 4 nights went great and I saw huge progress and then he started to do this whole crying for hours in the middle of the night which is doing my head in.
It has been colder here but I'e bundled him up in warmer cloths and with extra blankets. Although - last night, using the dummy he managed to go until 5.45 without a feed so I'm thinking he could probably go all night without a feed so maybe that's where we start. He's going to sleep fine initially but those wake ups are torture. Any advice - success stories? ------------- http://tickers.cafemom.com">
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Posted By: mollycat
Date Posted: 20 March 2010 at 7:29am
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So, also wanting to know how long it took some people to see true results? Did you see good results only to have it go backwards and then have it go forwards again?
I'm thinking I need to start over tonight with no night feeds and give it a good 2 weeks to see results. Also - did anyone else experience their bubs crashing their heads into the side of their cot. Any suggestions there? Should I get cot bumpers? ------------- http://tickers.cafemom.com">
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Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 22 March 2010 at 9:25am
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Hi ladies. RE: the 5am(ish wake-ups). What would you do if you are hoping to eliminate night feeds, but baby wakes at 5 or 5.30. You know baby will go right back to sleep and sleep until 8ish if you feed, BUT you also know that then that will be considered a night feed and hence they will expect feeding whenever they wake in the night? Do you hold off on feeding until the time you want to start the day, or do you feed and put them back to bed?
Ash used to sleep through, then she stopped. I found she got into a pattern of waking at 5 for a few days then she'd drop that back to 4am, then to 3am then to twice a night. I was really happy with the 5am feed but let's face it....they can't tell the time. So is it fair to not feed before a certain time in the night? Or is it more fair to not feed at all until the day you want to start the day? ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: jswan
Date Posted: 22 March 2010 at 4:17pm
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Hi mommies. Sleep! Its such a big part of our lives now that we have babies, isn't it? A couple of you have mentioned the new 5am waking time and wondering how to fix it. I'm not a sleep sense user, but did a lot of my son's sleep training based on the DreamBabyGuide by Sheyne Rowley and she had two good points that I think will be topical for the recent posts.
1) 5am wake ups. There are two ways that we can affect the time our babies wake. Both are from the prior day. The first is what time you put your baby down for a morning nap. For a 7am start, a morning nap shouldn't be before 9am. Anything before 9am encourages an early waking the next day. The other, is the last nap of the day prior. This last sleep should never be past 5pm (this assumes baby goes to bed around the 7pm hour). I was dubious about both of these statements until I noticed the mornings my bub was up with the birds, I had put him down at 8:15 or 8:45 in the morning. I started extending that out, no matter what time he got up which was usually 5:45am, until we got the nap for the morning to be after 9am. I also make sure that if he is still sleeping at 5pm that I wake him up instead of letting him sleep on. TBH, it has taken a good two months to shift him from such an early waking to a now 7 - 7:30 waking. 2) Mollycat asked about the one night feed for her bub and this book made an interesting point about that. I too was at the point of trying to stop night feeds, just introduced solids, etc...the thing to realize for under 1's is that they only understand their waking state. They don't wake up realizing they have been asleep for xx time. Which is you why you may find if your baby falls sleep in the middle of a big WAIL, he/she is likely to wake up with a big WAIL as all they remember last was that crying they were doing, even if they've just finished a two hour nap. So to try and distinguish for your baby one waking is a feed but others are not doesn't usually work. (according to Rowley's book). But that if you teach your baby that night feeds are on your clock, when you wake the baby up, they can learn much quicker that their own wakings are for self settling back to sleep. We liked that philosophy and even though Wyatt could wake sometimes at 10pm, 1am, 3am, or god only knows, we decided to dream feed at 11pm. Then any subsequent wakings we knew he was 'full' and should resettle himself back to sleep. We did three nights at 11, then moved it back by 15 minutes to 10:45 for 3 nights and kept that up until we were at 9:30. At 9:30, after 3 nights we stopped, and he was fine not bf'ing overnight. Maybe you'll find some use out of those bits. Her book is huge but she's got some really good cause-effect insights for managing our bubs that I found turned things around for us and certainly gave me a lot more confidence about managing my son's sleep and not just being a victim to his whims of the day or night. |
Posted By: FionaS
Date Posted: 22 March 2010 at 6:05pm
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Great info thanks jswan! I'd read about the first nap / last nap thing but am lazy...today for e.g. she just got up from her last nap. Whoops. I do find she sleeps better if she is down for the night by 6.30. ------------- Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley |
Posted By: mollycat
Date Posted: 22 March 2010 at 6:34pm
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Those are some really interesting points! Hmmm...might have to give that 9am nap a try. Will be hard to stretch him that far but I'm sure we can do it. Might have to put daycare on the case if they can.
I've just decided to stop BF at night because he's proven he can go 10/11 hours without a feed and it was just confusing him. The last two nights have been better than we've had so hopefully a couple more weeks can see even more improvements. ------------- http://tickers.cafemom.com">
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Posted By: FayeG
Date Posted: 22 March 2010 at 9:29pm
| gosh so long since i have been in here...but ds been rocked to sleep is taking too much out of me. he sleeps through the night so obviously self settles at night, during the day though he wakes after one sleep cycle.... but for all sleeps i have to rock him, then gently put him in the cot hoping he wont wake. he is 4 months and a big boy so i struggle with the rocking... my dh cannot stand ds crying and is happy to rock to sleep...i was out for the day yest and dh let ds sleep on him for all his day naps...argh... i've read sleep sense but my ds just screamed to hyperventalating. after 45 mins i had to pick him up as he was chocking himself and so wound up....he has reflux i suspect and very spilling to sometimes choking on his milk so i am worried about leaving him to cry without me when he gets so wound up. im at my wits end. my dh doesnt see the issue with rocking to sleep but for naps etc when im alone its too hard for me. i can rock ds for an hour to get a 30min nap.... those using sleep sense hoe hysterical did your babies get, for how long etc...i'm going to have to do it on my own without dh....who by the waqy is in bed now while i am rocking ds.....sorry for rant.... |
Posted By: LILLIS
Date Posted: 23 March 2010 at 1:11pm
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hi all
is someone able to send me a copy of this? I have read through the posts and it looks like it is working for a lot of you. Our bub is still small but sleeps through some nights and not others, sleeps well some days and not others and i have no idea what to do to fix it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: errii
Date Posted: 23 March 2010 at 6:32pm
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I was also wondering if I could get a copy of this program, seems you are all doing really well with it.
I am currently battling a 4.5 month old that has reverted to wanting to feed every three hours over night and I cant take anymore as she was sleeping 10 + hours until she got a really bad bug. Any help would be fantastic as we have tried not feeding and trying to re settle and she will just scream until I give in and feed. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
Baby Alistair 7/1/09 |
Posted By: ScottishPixie
Date Posted: 24 March 2010 at 2:06pm
I'd love to hear any advice too! My wee man is just over 4 months and although he has never slept longer than about 4 hours at one time at night I've been managing somehow. I recently resorted to CC (he broke down my resolve to do attachment parenting, and so here I am) but it only worked for 4 days, now he's stopped doing good daytime naps and , started waking after every sleep cycle and I'm at my wits end and he's going hoarse which makes me feel even more stink. I've stopped going out anywhere cos as soon as I meet anyone I know (or don't) I end up breaking down. I found that sleep programme online but it's pricey. I just found something I imagine is similar in a book called 'the sleep easy solution' that I got out of the library (think I have most of the books out about sleep in the Hutt Valley!). I don't know what I'm asking, I'm just joinng you all in solidarity I guess 
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Posted By: mollycat
Date Posted: 24 March 2010 at 2:14pm
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I have a copy of the programme - PM your email and I'll send it through. ------------- http://tickers.cafemom.com">
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Posted By: kmarie
Date Posted: 25 March 2010 at 2:07pm
BIG hugs FayeG, I do know how you feel! Bethany was a hysterical screamer too when we started the programme. I think she was refluxy and a chronic choker too, but I can't remember if she actually choked during this programme or not. The first night she carried on for 1hr35mins before falling asleep - then woke at about 2am and after we checked her nappy, offered her water etc., she screamed even louder than she did the first time, this time for 2hrs8mins. Believe me, it was absolute torture and DH & I both hated every minute of it. But in the long run it was worth it. For us, we did the programme because she wasn't sleeping through the night at all, and we needed to break the whole cycle. By the sounds of what you're saying, he is sleeping well through the night but it's just that initial settling that is going haywire. Have you considered looking at Elizabeth Pantley's 'No Cry Sleep Solution' book for ideas? Perhaps a gentler approach will work for him, since his sleep is actually already sorted? There are some threads on her book that you might find helpful to read through. Maybe you could think about easing him into the idea that you have your snuggles/rocking sitting down, which will be easier on your back. Also, do you have a firm routine leading up to bedtime? With Bethany, ours consisted of the typical bath/teeth etc., then reading 2-3 books, then snuggling her in our arms and singing a song before tucking her into bed with her. (We couldn't bear to do absolutely no rocking, so even now we still rock and sing her a song last thing before bed with her cuddlies.) Otherwise, if you can bear to leave him to it (we stayed in the room, I couldn't bear the feeling of deserting her) then maybe it is worth letting him totally cry himself out and seeing how long it takes. The first few times will always be the worst, but then he should start to grow calmer because he'll know what's coming and that you aren't going to change what you're doing. Remember, you can reassure him by voice and touch over those first few days, it's probably important that you respond calmly when he chokes, gently reminding him to breathe. You could even blow on his face without taking him out of the cot to startle him into breathing again. In the end though, only you can make the judgement call about whether or not it is worth doing it this way. Also, to be fair, you may find that this is a very difficult approach for you, especially since your DH is not supporting you in it. When it comes to letting ds sleep on you (or DH), I went with the philosophy that if we were out, the rules were allowed to be different at times if they needed to be, but at home we stuck with putting Bethany into bed. Maybe you could see if DH will compromise with you on this, and take ds out if he doesn't want to put him to bed, that way he hopefully won't keep associating home with falling asleep on someone? Sorry to blab on, I hope some of that makes sense and might help a bit? Hugs to you mums who are looking into the programme, I know how hard (not to mention torturous!) lack of sleep can be. Mollycat, sorry to hear ds started waking for patches in the night, must have been torture! Has he stopped doing that again now or are you still looking for suggestions to help him stop? -------------
twins in heaven Oct07 Is 40:11 "He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart." |
Posted By: kmarie
Date Posted: 25 March 2010 at 2:18pm
You sound sooooo much like how we were feeling! I always said I'd never let my baby cry herself to sleep, and I always loved letting her sleep on me. So I guess I was all for attachment parenting in that sense. At her worst, for more than a month before we found the sleep sense programme, Bethany would wake every 1.5-2hrs and take at least that long again to settle. And she never slept well during the day - for the first year of her life she'd sleep a max of 25-45mins at a time, 2-3 times a day if we were lucky. By the time she was about 10mths old, we were lucky if she'd manage that once a day :S I just want to say that I totally sympathise! We too hit burnout point, it was when she was 6mths old. Although we didn't try CC because we found this programme in the nick of time, I distinctly remember one time she was up for the umpteenth time, nothing would settle her, so we put her back in bed and just stared at her as she cried wondering what on earth else we could possibly do. That's why the sleep sense programme gelled so well with us - it started at exactly that point with us being in the room with her while she cried, and explained the philosophy behind why she was crying in a way that made sense and really helped. She did end up being hoarse for a little while which felt so mean, but the phase did pass. Anyway, by the sounds of it, you might get a lot out of it! My last post mentioned how much crying it took the first night to get Bethany sleeping - it did improve vastly and quickly after that. By the third night she actually slept 9hrs straight, we couldn't believe it! Totally surprised me because tbh I thought she would take a lot longer to cotton on to the idea. Hugs and hang in there hun, sounds like you're doing an amazing job - on very little sleep! x -------------
twins in heaven Oct07 Is 40:11 "He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart." |
Posted By: mollycat
Date Posted: 25 March 2010 at 3:34pm
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kmarie - you'll never believe...or should I say I wouldn't have believed it - but DS slept through the night last night! It was his first time ever doing it so quite an accomplishment. For us, I decided to cut out all night feeds and I can't be in the room with him if he starts crying. For Ryan it was worse if I was there - like holding a lolly out of reach. He's really learning to self settle and he's even got a cold at the moment so we are very impressed.
Can't believe we cut out the dummy, night feeds and had a sleep through...bliss ------------- http://tickers.cafemom.com">
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Posted By: ScottishPixie
Date Posted: 25 March 2010 at 5:29pm
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Kmarie thanks so much for the reassurance Isn't it lovely when someone tells you you;re doing a good job?!??! My DH (D???) is leaving all the decisions to me and moved out of our room the night wee Fin came home so it's lovely having people giving any kind of positive feedback for what's turning out to be a pretty lonely job. Love being a mummy tho, don't get me wrong!
Mollycat wow! Awesome to hear that things can get better! People like me hang out for success stories like yours
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Posted By: HoneybunsMa
Date Posted: 25 March 2010 at 9:30pm
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We are doing so well here! DD goes to sleep within 10mins of being put down with some crying but mostly grizzling. She sleeps through till 5 at least sometimes 6 or later and then she feeds both sides, which since she is a one side feeder I am thinking that she really needs the feed. Thats fine as she wakes up just about the time that DP gets up to go to work so she gets cuddles with dad before work as well ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: kmarie
Date Posted: 26 March 2010 at 1:31pm
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HoneybunsMa, that's so great to hear! Yay
Mollycat, that's brilliant! Here's to more of the same from here on in!!
Forgot to say yesterday, jswan, thanks, your ideas made a whole lot of sense - some parts are things I picked up by trial and error with Bethany but it's good to hear them put so clean cut. Others I hadn't come across and will tuck them away for when this one arrives ;) Judging by your ticker, am I right in thinking you're due in May? We'd love you to come and join us in the Due in May thread if you have the time :) -------------
twins in heaven Oct07 Is 40:11 "He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart." |
Posted By: jswan
Date Posted: 26 March 2010 at 2:54pm
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Thanks kmarie! I found the DreamBabyGuide a real clear and easy book to follow and its about positive routine management so she covers everything from solids, communication, sleep, play...its a long book but I got it from the library and its been very helpful.
Yes, I do go on the May thread occasionally, but its not often the topic is one I can contribute to...lots of scan dates, etc. I'm also in the Jan 09 thread a lot because my first was a Jan baby. Its a lot to keep up with all of these! :) You must be due end of May? How you feeling about 2 under 2? |
Posted By: kmarie
Date Posted: 26 March 2010 at 7:17pm
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Great thanks jswan, I should write that down and see if our library has it cuz it sounds like it would be worth flicking through before this one arrives :) Yep, I'm due 21st May, just had a scan today that confirmed the placenta has moved so no c-section for me which I'm relieved about. As crazy as it might sound, I'm really looking forward to having 2 under 2! Bethany already dotes on babies and I think she'll be a lovely big sister which is so neat. I know what you mean about the May thread, it took me quite a while to get my head around it cuz they're so chatty! If you ever do want to poke your nose in & comment, you know you're always welcome to ;) How about you - when are you due and how are you feeling about 2 under 2? -------------
twins in heaven Oct07 Is 40:11 "He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart." |
Posted By: mollycat
Date Posted: 27 March 2010 at 12:57pm
Well, we had that one night wonder and now we're back to multiple wake ups but I can't really judge cause Ryan's sick and it's also been oddly hot at night so he's getting too warm. But I still have hope since he slept through once that he knows what to do. hard to sleep with a snuffly nose and sore throat though - poor thing ------------- http://tickers.cafemom.com">
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Posted By: kmarie
Date Posted: 27 March 2010 at 1:16pm
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Doh - it's so hard when they're sick eh, poor Ryan :( And at this time of year the temperature is so hard to judge anyway! Hope he gets better soon x -------------
twins in heaven Oct07 Is 40:11 "He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart." |
Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 30 March 2010 at 5:14pm
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Ok today is day one on the Sleep Sense Programme. It was during a nap and he cried for 30mins so I had to get him up and will try to settle him in an hour for his night time sleep. I am dreading it. He seems fine after getting up.... but it's just so horrible. He become inconsolable during it - my touch or my voice seems to make no difference. It's amazing what emotions you go through... I just want to cry as well it's horrible and I question what I'm doing and whether it's ok and whether it's just another textbook and not right for my baby...
I just don't know if I can listen to my baby cry for 2hrs! I know my DH will not be able to do it at all until he's over this stage, so it's hard on my own! Some encouragement, please!! Nathan was waking 1-2hrly last night and didn't seem hungry and Pamol made no difference, just thinking he can't settle himself. Is happy during the day so not sick. But all the old ways of settling him are starting to not work - refusing the dummy and not even wanting me to cuddle him, so I guess he is ready for this? ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: angel4
Date Posted: 30 March 2010 at 5:33pm
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newlywed - it sounds like he is ready for it hun. That what my son was doing at about 5months. waking every hour it was insane!!! The first night he cried for 3hours (we did the going in and reassuring every 10mins because i couldnt handle being in the room) the second night 1 hour and the 3rd night it was 10 minutes. The first night he woke once and i fed him. the next ones (if memory serves me) he slept through. Once he was sleeping better at night his day naps got better too. oh and we did wean off the dummy at the same time.
I would like to say that my daughter who is 3month old - we have kinda been doing this from the start - leaving her to put herself to sleep and she sleeps 12-13hours through the night. Just started this week. Good luck and be strong hun. Cry if you need to - i know i did. And maybe set a timer for telling you when to go back in so you are less tempted to sneak in early. |
Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 30 March 2010 at 6:16pm
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Wow we did the 30mins routine thing (some things I used to do with him but had got lazy) before bed and then down all geared up for a 1.5-2hr cry and within 5mins he was asleep! I mean he's literally been up for 4hrs because he wouldn't go down for his nap so who knows what will happen tomorrow but at least he got himself to sleep!!! Wow - the evening is my own!!! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: ScottishPixie
Date Posted: 30 March 2010 at 7:01pm
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Hey Newlywed
My wee Fin is almost exactly the same age as Nathan (16th Nov) and I've made today the first day we're gonna try this thing . . . I'm pretty much by myself too cos DH moved out of the bedroom leaving me to do the whole night routine/settling thing by myself. I've not finished reading hte book but asked him (DH) if he'd settle the wee man in the middle of the night just to try to break the pattern but he's not keen so I;m not sure how I'll go. I would feed Fin until he sleeps, sometimes he wakes up to 3 times a night I guess we won't know how it's gonna go until we try it - I'm the same as you, and every other mum I reckon, listening to them crying is horrible, and I have to confess that I join right in with the crying!
Fin's usual bedtime routine is OK it's just the middle of the night stuff that wrecks me. Then he woke this morning at 5am and cos his naps are very short (usually have to leave him to cry for a horrific amount of time, if he settles at all) I feel dreadful. Enjoy your evening!!! You deserve it! Put your feet up if you can I have to go sort the laundry and cook dinner - oh joy! 
I'll be keen to hear how you go tonight with it. I'm not sure if my resolve will hold at 2 and 5 am but we'll see! |
Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 30 March 2010 at 7:50pm
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Hi pulgtpixie
Well, how about we support each other day by day with this thing then? Nathan woke up about 30mins after settling him and has taken 1hr to settle. I actually made the mistake of picking him up about 40mins into it because I was wondering if wind was making him not settle off (he often gets wind with lots of crying) but he didn't have wind. And started screaming again when I put him down. So at that point I walked out of the room and he started to settle much quicker - stopping and starting with the crying rather than constant crying. So I'm considering that.... I'm just glad I was there for most of it because I didn't want his crying to be about me abandoning him. For the most part - I could see that he was crying because he was tired and didn't know how to get himself off to sleep. Tonight I plan to wake him around the 11pm mark to do a dreamfeed and then trying not to feed him the rest of the night. I will let him cry 5-10mins and then feed him because of his age and because he's not on solids yet. Good luck! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: ScottishPixie
Date Posted: 30 March 2010 at 9:48pm
Sounds like a plan, although DH doesn't think we're at a stage we can leave him to cry yet due to the advice we've been given so I'm already feeling shaky. Happy to let him grizzle for a little while tho when he wakes initially just to see if he's actually hungry or just in between cycles. Good to hear you;re of the same mind Interested to hear you wake him for his dream feeds too - we'd been doing ours at 10.30 and not waking him. A friend suggested today that I wake him for it - a little nervous about it but may well give it a try to see what happens . . . 
DH said he wouldn't go in to settle the wee man in the night cos he feels it's a feeding issue  But . . . was in shower earlier and heard Fin wake and start to cry so maybe i took a little longer on my ablutions than absolutely necessary and, lo and behold, in went DH Left them to it and all's gone quiet!!!
Good luck for tonight newlywed! Kia kaha
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Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 9:38am
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Well we had an amazing night. If DH hadn't woken Nathan up at 5:45am this morning, he probably would have slept for a lot longer. He woke up himself at 11pm, so I fed him and he slept right through to 5:45am without a peep. Tried waiting the 5-10 mins and at times thought he was going to go back to sleep, but no - and DH asked me if I was going to feed him etc (ugh). So I fed him and got him back to sleep for our sleep-in that we have every morning (rather than a 3rd nap at the end of the day). So he did really well!
DH might be around today when Nathan is going to sleep - dreading this as he's totally unsupportive, even though I know that this is best for Nathan - he had such a good sleep and is such a happy baby today. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: ScottishPixie
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 9:42am
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So how'd'you go newlywed?
I'm not sure I got it right - when we went for the dream feed at 10.30 he was not to be roused so I put him back in bed, then he woke at 11 demanding to be fed. So I fed him. Then he woke again at 1.30 so I left him for 10 but he meant business (so soon?!?) so I fed him. Then again at 4 and then 5.30. He's always needed fed a couple of times a night but four and a half months in and it feels like he's leading me a merry dance . . . 
Hope your night was ok 
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Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 9:53am
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pugltpixie - see post above
Think to get that sound night's sleep you'd have to do the crying technique during the day and before bed not just when he wakes at night. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: ScottishPixie
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 10:08am
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Oops! Didn't notice your earlier post newlywed! Great result for you though!!! Despite DH!
Yeah need to read the whole lot before jumping in with both feet I think - so you're meant to start during hte day? I didn't realise that! Also did you wake Nathan for his dream feed? I just lifted Fin after he cried for half an hour for his first nap of the day - I'm too soft I think . . . I think being this tired it's harder to hear those cries . . .
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Posted By: kmarie
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 2:32pm
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Aw hugs pugltpixie, it's not easy eh :P I think you'll find that consistency is the key, with both day and night. For Bethany her day naps didn't necessarily last long even once she got the idea, but I think it really helped that she could associate the same thing with every bedtime, and know when it was time to sleep. I think the same probably applies (as mollycat found recently) with what you do for their wake ups during the night. If you're doing the dreamfeed so that he won't need any milk later on (regardless of whether he takes the dreamfeed or not), then maybe you just need to stick with not offering him any milk later on, otherwise he'll think that every time he wakes he needs milk to be able to go back to sleep. Does he take water in a bottle? We started offering Bethany water in the night when I stopped bfing overnight, so at least she had something thirst quenching. Just a thought?
Being tired sure does make it harder though, I know exactly what you mean. All I can suggest is to keep in mind that if you do the tough yards now, you'll start feeling less tired which will be 100% better for both of you in the long run! Big hugs, hang in there hun! x Newlywed, stoked to see you're managing to stick with it and get amazing results. It's always such a relief to find out that it really was worth the agony of letting them cry when you know they ended up with a really good sleep. -------------
twins in heaven Oct07 Is 40:11 "He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart." |
Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 4:37pm
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Yes kmarie I agree with what you've written there. I hope it encourages you pixie (need to shorten heehee) to hear at least my experience. The 1hr crying last night was tough, I had to do little mantras to myself in my head to keep me going, and it was worth it as he finally started settling himself to sleep.
The biggest triumph has got to be this afternoon. Despite the fact that I took him into bed with me this morning for a nap, this afternoon, I put him down in his cot for a sleep and wrote a shopping list to give to DH to go out and do the groceries because I knew he wouldn't cope with him crying... and Nathan just babbled to himself. When I went out to give it to DH and did a few things, Nathan went quiet. When I went in to check on him - he was fast asleep! NO crying, NO grizzling and asleep in 5mins!!! Then 45 mins later after a sleep cycle, he woke up, and I left him to grizzle off and on for 15mins (not really crying)... then back to sleep... he's still asleep and due to wake up in about 25mins. Awesome! A bit worried about putting him down tonight as DH normally works evenings but Wed is his day off so he will be around and really unsupportive so fingers crossed there won't be too much crying tonight. I do encourage you to read the chapters that talk about the reasons for this approach. For instance, there's no point in picking him up after 1/2 hr crying coz otherwise all that crying is for nothing. Honestly - I thought my 1hr was 2hrs but when I worked out the clock it was just 1hr so I know how you feel! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: ScottishPixie
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 4:43pm
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Thanks kmarie I'm so pleased for newlywed but it's hard to hear of literal overnight success when we're still struggling . . . I just don't feel like the natural mother I always hoped I'd become. Early days I know
I wasn't happy to leave him crying for too long because a lactation consultant told me he's not yet developmentally ready to go through the night without feeding. We saw her due to feeding problems about 6 weeks ago ut they're sorted now. It's just that he's asking to be fed more often than he's fed during the day . . . ?!?!? So I'm confused. Go with the expert opinion or look to self preservation? SHe sent me an email re 4-5 month old babies getting distracted during the day feeds and so needing more food at night . . . Anyway, don't want to hijack this thread for my own personal gain, I'll sign out now! |
Posted By: ScottishPixie
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 4:47pm
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Hey newlywed - we keep overlapping our posts! Re sleep cycles, he's only ever able to do one at a time and I left him for 15 mins this afternoon but to no avail. I just put him down again 50 minutes ago and left him to cry but DH (who works from home) just brought him upstairs. I thought he'd gone quiet cos of hte approach. Cross purposes eh?!?!
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Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 31 March 2010 at 5:32pm
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Pixie it sounds like you are stopping and starting with your approach so it's likely your baby is getting confused. You need to either do the sleep sense programme or not do it - not do some of it some of the time and not others, otherwise all that crying is just making you and him upset and not accomplishing what you want it to.
The programme actually says to try 5-10min crying at night time and if he doesn't sleep, then to feed. Personally I will do a dreamfeed at 11pm-ish and let him cry around 5am when he wakes and see if he'll resettle - or feed him if it's closer to 7am that he wakes up. But there's no point in leaving to cry even for a short time, if you haven't managed to ever get him to sleep after crying (for naps or at bedtime). I think take some time to figure out what approach you want to take at this stage and only start it when you're truly decided. I would say it's the consistency issue that is affecting your results and you don't sound ready or sure yet. Just remember that there are lots of opinions out there, including Plunket. You've got to wade your way through all that advice and figure out what you believe is right for you and your baby. When Nathan is 6mths old, and established (not just tasting) on solids... I will start cutting out his dreamfeed and be more insistent on cutting out the 5am feed if I can. Or that's the aim anyway! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Mum_mum
Date Posted: 01 April 2010 at 12:24pm
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Hey ladies, havent been on for a while, been so busy but now need the guidence of all you lovely ladies.
Miss M was sleeping through the night until about a month or so ago. She is now waking up to 5 times a night and nothing will settle her except a quick breastfeed. She does feed herself to sleep every time and i know this needs to be stopped. Is the sleep sense program something that can help with this, and getting her to not wake up so much? She only ever sleeps for 45 mins max during a day nap so shes defiantly not over sleeping! Any help? TIA ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
Angel baby - May 2008
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Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 01 April 2010 at 7:49pm
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Hiya Hannah
I think it could help. I am told (not sure it's true but it seems a common theme!) that at about age 5mths, babies wake right up after a sleep cycle, so they start waking up frequently at night. A sleep cycle is around about 45 minutes which is why your baby wakes after 45mins during the day. Sleep sense teaches your baby to put herself to sleep so that if she does wake up, she knows how to go back to sleep. My experience of sleep sense so far has been really positive. I think any of us would be happy to email it to you if you PM us your email address to read it and see if you're interested! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 01 April 2010 at 7:50pm
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Pixie just wanted to add - hugs to you! I was so tired today and was really hard being with Nathan while he cried so I do empathise xo ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: kmarie
Date Posted: 02 April 2010 at 9:26am
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Hugs Pixie, I know it's not easy :( Especially with conflicting advice!
I don't know what you're doing already but have you thought about working on a feeding routine during the day so that you know he's being offered enough milk? The reason I ask is because if you know he's being offered enough full feeds during the day (and when I say 'offered' it doesn't necessarily mean he will take them at first), then I think there's no reason why not to drop the multiple overnight feeds. The theory being that he'll figure out that he has to have his milk during the day instead. He may seem really hungry while he works it out, but I think you'll find that he settles into the idea if you work at it? To give you an idea, I think at 5mths I was aiming to feed Bethany approx every 3-4hrs and I'd do my best to stretch her out that much (just by distraction), cuz if I feed her much more than that then she'd tend to snack instead of having proper feeds. Don't get me wrong - I'm not talking about a strict routine really, just a slight variation on demand feeding. It was at around 5mths that we dropped her overnight feeds I think, because, like you, she was having longer and fuller feeds during the night than she was during the day. I was ultra aware of making sure she got enough from me during the day, but drew the line during that overnight period. Eventually she did get the idea. Oh - and if you're worried about weight gain, she was always little for her age, so some might say I should have been even more concerned about dropping overnight feeds, but I figured that she was healthy so it was fine. And it was :D Sorry for the ramble, hope that helps? Hugs x 
ETA - Hannabil, I second newlywed's advice, it really does sound like the sleep sense programme could work for you. -------------
twins in heaven Oct07 Is 40:11 "He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart." |
Posted By: mollycat
Date Posted: 02 April 2010 at 10:13am
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(sob sob....sigh) Assuming sick babies completely negate all the progress previously made. We had 5 - FIVE - wake ups last night. I am soooo over it! ------------- http://tickers.cafemom.com">
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Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 03 April 2010 at 11:46pm
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Molly it's hard when they're sick. When Nathan had a throat infection I didn't want him to cry at all and it was so hard getting him off to sleep... so I feel for you!
I'm having mixed results with Nathan. I have to admit that I don't stick to the rules completely. Putting Nathan down for naps during the day are much harder than putting him down in the evening. I'm assuming the only difference must be the routine we go through at bedtime, the fact that he's really tired, and the fact that it's getting dark. He cried for 1hr at naptime today. I got him up for 20mins and then put him down again and he went to sleep with his dummy in his mouth, because I have decided I wanted to use his dummy to settle him to begin with - it inevitably pops out and he starts crying, but it's just my way of letting him know it's bedtime. I guess we tweak it to suit ourselves for better or for worse! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Mum_mum
Date Posted: 06 April 2010 at 11:49am
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I know what you mean about nap time - im struggling with that too and end up just letting her nearly nurse herself to sleep or she won't nap! Even if i leave her she will cry for a while then start playing with her feet and socks
Ah well, night time is going really well though so thank you Newlywed for the info. Maddi cried for 3/4 hour the first night, 2 grizzles the next and 5 mins last night. I really didnt think it would work that quickly. She is still waking up to feed but not as many times now so maybe twice, i try to only feed her once but she wont have a bar of going back to sleep without it and at 4am you don't want a crying or wind awake baby who thinks it playtime! ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
Angel baby - May 2008
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Posted By: kmarie
Date Posted: 06 April 2010 at 10:04pm
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Aw hugs Mollycat! From someone who remembers what it was like... we did the sleep sense programme with Bethany when she was 6mths old, and she did amazingly well until she got her first cold ever at about 8mths old (right at the same time as we moved house). We were lenient for quite a while cuz we felt she needed it, but in the end it bit us in the backside because she decided she needed it on a permanent basis
The hard part is that it took until she turned 1 for us to get her sleep sorted again. At that point (although it felt really mean) the only approach that worked when she was sick (or teething) was the process of elimination. We didn't ignore how she was feeling - I'd make a point of giving her extra cuddles etc. during the day and before bedtime, but then we stuck with the routine we'd established based on the sleep sense programme. We made sure she had pamol/bonjela/water & anything else she could possibly have needed or wanted, put her to bed, and left her to it knowing we'd done all we could. Unfortunately it did mean leaving her to cry - which was horrible cuz we thought we were over that side of things - but in the end it was the only thing that made her bedtimes - and our nights - sane again. I think that by that stage I felt she was old enough to understand that we really weren't deserting her (we talked her through things) and it was simply a protest on her part, like that chapter about crying says. Going back only tended to make the crying worse, so simply had to leave her to it and grit our teeth and bear it
It took a month or so - I forget how long exactly. I found out I was pregnant during this phase, which of course made it feel even longer cuz I was feeling rotten and she was screaming instead of sleeping during the day too. But out of necessity I think we stuck to it, and now she goes to bed happily. If she gets upset, there is always a reason for it (rather than simply protesting), and if she doesn't calm down by herself, these days we can actually go back in and it helps. Some nights we've ended up going in countless times before she falls asleep... the great thing is though that she'll still always sleep through. It's bliss! Anyway, not sure if any of that helps. What we did was kind of a bit further down the track than the sleep sense programme I guess. Once you get to a certain point it makes sense to adapt it to how it suits you, but the hard part is knowing when - and how - to do that without compromising the hard work. I don't know if it would've helped for us to do those things earlier - I guess that's why I'm mentioning it to you, so you can decide for yourself. Big hugs, hang in there!! PS isn't it crazy how you can cope and cope and cope with basically no sleep for months on end, then when they start sleeping through and go back to waking up, the night wake ups can make you hit rock bottom?! -------------
twins in heaven Oct07 Is 40:11 "He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart." |
Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 06 April 2010 at 11:30pm
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kmarie - it's your body adjusting. I haven't had more than 5hrs sleep at one time since Nathan was born 5mths ago, and even if he sleeps longer, I inevitably wake up!
The last two nights Nathan has gone to bed without crying - it's amazing. I'm quite sure it is the routine, so I make sure I read him a book and sing him his bedtime song, white noise and bedtime blanket and so on during daytime naps and he inevitably cries for a while (maybe 10mins), but I leave him to it. Sometimes just going in once to reassure him. But I struggle more with the morning sleep getting him to go into his 2nd sleep cycle - so he inevitably wakes up after 45 mins and refuses to go back to sleep, and I often end up getting him up. But I've noticed he can stay awake a lot longer than 2hrs now fairly happily and he has a big sleep in the morning from 5am-9am (lucky me!) so I'm not overly worried about it. Anyway, I should stop blabbing - I just can't say enough about this Programme - so pleased at how well and how quickly it worked for us! I still hate his crying and the tears rolling down his face break my heart. And lately he has been saying "mama" when crying/grizzling...!!! But I think it's resulted in a happier mummy and happier baby in the long run. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: FayeG
Date Posted: 07 April 2010 at 9:14pm
| Hi just want to say that I have finally had success. My DH had a weekend away and as he couldnt stand our sons crying I got Mum over! Good old Mum! I bath, feed then Mum would take my DS to his room, play his lyllabye and then quick cuddle and into bed. The first night she stayed with him crying - at times hysterical for 45 mins. The second night 15 mins and the third night nothing.... and this has been the case for a week. Sometimes he cries when I take him up to his room, but I just cuddle him till he calms down then put him in his bed and he goes to sleep. He does wake about an hour into the sleep, I was feeding but tonight I just played his music again and off to sleep he went, lets see if he sleeps through as he has been! However day times, I get 3 - 4 x 30min naps and he doesnt self settle.... I do nothing different..... and he wakes after one sleep cycle where at night he self settles..... any ideas/help..... |
Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 08 April 2010 at 10:14pm
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Hi Faye, I am struggling with the same problem. I let Nathan cry for a little while - it doesn't always work. I have mixed results. Sometimes he gets hysterical and I have had to calm him down any way I can, but afterwards he was ready to go to sleep. Sometimes I've got him up (depends on what the time is and what we're planning on doing that day). And sometimes he's just whimpered a bit and gone into his next sleep cycle. Perhaps for our babies they're still mastering it and hopefully with time and patience and a bit of crying, they'll work it out. But I'm keen to hear others' tips as well that have been through this before...ie. how long would you let them cry? Don't remember them mentioning this in the programme. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: kmarie
Date Posted: 17 April 2010 at 7:26pm
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As far as I can remember, the programme was about letting them cry until they fall asleep, as long as that takes. That's what we did at night (much as we hate, hate, hated it!!). The first night she cried for 1hr35mins, then woke in the middle of the night and after we checked nappy/offered water etc. she cried for 2hrs8mins before falling back asleep. The next night was about 45mins and then she slept for about 9hrs straight. The third night was about 15-20mins and she slept about 10hrs straight and it kept improving from there. We did the stay in the room method and kept reassuring etc. but still felt awful about it - until we started seeing results and could at least tell ourselves that it was definitely the best thing for her. Being cruel to be kind I spose you'd say :P
The day naps we kind of followed the book and to be honest every so often she'd fall asleep after 15-20mins but more often than not she'd just cry for the 30-45mins I put her there until I gave up and got her up. During the day I based the amount of time I left her there on the amount of time she'd typically sleep for. She never slept more than 25-45mins at a time anyway, so I figured it was pointless to make her stay in bed any longer than that, esp if she was just making a fuss! Does that help answer your question? Bascially, in my experience, what makes this programme work is the fact that you do leave them to cry until they finally fall asleep. Anything less than that - at night time at least - I imagine ends up being quite confusing for them. Daytime is more complicated though, and tbh we survived on little or no sleep until she started walking at 13.5mths old! :S But that was just for Bethany, cuz by then we knew nothing less could work cuz we'd honestly tried all the gentle methods with no success :( It's different for everyone, especially since every child is so different. If what you're doing is working for you and Nathan, I say definitely keep it up :-) -------------
twins in heaven Oct07 Is 40:11 "He gathers the lambs in his arms and carries them close to his heart." |
Posted By: E&L+1
Date Posted: 17 April 2010 at 7:56pm
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newlywed your little boy is about the same age as my daughter. We are just going through this programme atm. Esme was fighting her naps badly so we (read I) left her to it one day and she cried for 35 minutes then fell asleep. I can't let her see me or she gets really worked up so the stay in the room doesn't work for us. So I just kept peaking at her and verbally reassuring. Now I leave her for 15 minutes if she's crying and just visually check she rarely cries for more than 15 minutes before falling asleep during the day now. If she wakes up after a short sleep I will leave her unless she is crying in which case I just get her up after 15 minutes, if her cries are dying down at this point I'll leave her for another 5 mins. She is gradually getting longer and longer sleeps, I don't worry too much as long as 2/3 sleeps are decent ones now. It's much better than the short ones we were having.
Night times are tricky I will leave her for 15 minutes and she will often fall asleep but if her cries escalate I will feed her but I change her nappy before putting her back down so that she goes to bed awake. In saying that 2 wake ups and only feeding for 1 is much better than the 3+ with feeding everytime! 15 minutes is the magic number for us but it is a really long time to listen to her cry it tears me up everytime! ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 18 April 2010 at 9:47am
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Hey peops I don't have sleeping probs with either of my boys TG but I'm always interested in new info JIC so can someone send this through to me please??? -------------   
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Posted By: mandz
Date Posted: 18 April 2010 at 10:03am
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I would love a copy too please - if someone wouldn't mind? I have gone through some sleep issues with DS2 (luckily DS1 is a dream!). I think I have them sorted now but just in case as he grows developmentally this changes.
He wouldn't go to bed (at bedtime) although would originally self settle during the day and in the middle of the night just fine. Then we thought we had the bedtime sorted but it all disintegrated including nighttime and daytime. Now after leaving him to cry during the day (only if he didn't sound upset - just grizzling and never for more than 10 minutes) for one day only we appear to have had a breakthrough. The other thing I found with DS2 is there is absolutely no point in trying to get him to go to sleep if he is grizzling/crying when I put him into his cot. So what I do is start to tickle him and make him laugh (I know everyone says you need to wind them down to sleep but DS1 is the same - goes to bed really well if he is happy and laughing). Then I can just leave him and he goes to sleep by himself from wide awake no problems at all. And we have been doing this now for almost 2 weeks so pretty sure it is not a fluke. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
Zack Robert Henton - 29th December 2009 |