Knowledge good or bad
Printed From: OHbaby!
Category: Planning Pregnancy (trying for baby)
Forum Name: Planning Pregnancy (trying for baby)
Forum Description: Trying to get pregnant? Going through fertility treatment? Just planning your first or second child? There are many people out there in the same boat to help and listen and share with
URL: https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26077
Printed Date: 21 August 2025 at 2:17am
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Topic: Knowledge good or bad
Posted By: sweetpea
Subject: Knowledge good or bad
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 3:02pm
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I wasn't sure where to put this or what to call it.
i've been thinking do you think we are better off today then say our mums or grandparents with all the knowledge/ information avaliable on concieving etc. or not. |
Replies:
Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 5:40pm
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IMHO not really ..
I know NOTHING about TTCing so never went through all the temping, charting, worrying that I see so many of you ladies go through in this section. So .. in my case ignorance was bliss ... as I may have miscarried many times, just not known about it, because i didnt know when I ovulated etc etc. However .. I do think that science has progressed to a point, where we have a greater advantage than our parents did (in terms of fertility treatments, and from what I gather the government funds it these days). Sorry if I sound so vague, ive just never TTC'd (my DH just needs to wink at me and he creates a baby) so dont really know what the government provide for people who are having trouble with the issue .. but I think ive heard they help .. im sure that is a change from our parents lifetime too  ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year  http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 7:24pm
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Yes I think we are better off. If I was unable to have a baby (which was becoming a possibility), then at least a lot of the time it would be possible to determine why - and if it was fixable then it would be fixed. If it was not fixable then at least there are other options.
Having TTC for about 18 months, I have learnt heaps about my cycles and what to look for and also learnt where I could have been making mistakes and that information has obviously been invaluable. I do think that sometimes women test too early and then go on to have chemical pregs which can be devastating. Things are different now - what did people do in the olden days when they couldn't conceive-they adopted a baby? Not exactly many babies to adopt these days tho could argue that if medical science hadnt altered then maybe there still would be-less abortions and so on? Who knows? All I know is that I am grateful that I have conceived after trying for so long and honestly dunno if I would have if I had left it up to chance!! ------------- 
 Oct 11
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Posted By: LouD
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 7:25pm
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It would a nice world if we all could just fall preg without having to TRY
we started charting etc when we hadnt concieved in 12months........Im glad that this knowledge is around otherwise we could still be BDing and missing the days etc..........and we did everything poss to get preg and we got preg the first month of charting and BDing at the right time and MCed that, but then got preg again the next month following the same rules If the world was a perfect place no one had to TRY then that would be fine, but its not so im glad the information is out there for us........... I feel better off for it...............except not eating KFC cos im too scared in the first 12weeks to do anything wrong.........after 12 weeks i will relax a lot |
Posted By: MindyW
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 7:28pm
I def think its better now that we know all this stuff! I work with a lot of elderly ladies who could never had children, I have PCOS and have the opportunity to have fertility treatment..... I think thats cool
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Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 7:39am
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I'm with LilFatty actually I don't think we're that better off. The positive advances are balanced out by the negatives as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather be able to adopt a child if I couldn't conceive than go through the stress, pain and finance of IVf, etc. Thats rarely an option these days though because with scientific 'advances' have come huges rates of abortions. I also think there would be alot less problems conceiving if people were living more simply (which they were before all the scientific 'advances'). I'm in the position of being able to conceive but miscarrying regularly so yeah I know it can be heartbreaking but thats my opinion.
Nobody take offence please -------------   
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 9:05am
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I think things are better, women who wouldn't have been able to have children even 20 years ago, now can thanks to IVF and better understanding of how conception works. I'm not sure that TTC is any different, we simply know more about it and are aware of what's going on. A woman who couldn't concieve even 20 years ago, would have been considered 'barren' and consigned to being childless. Maybe my own parents would have been able to have children if IVF was avaialable 35 years ago, but it wasn't and the DPB wasn't readily available, so I was adopted by my un-wed catholic birth mother at 2 weeks of age by my parents. Adoption was realitvely common place in the 70's. I'm not sure I age with society's attittude towards teenage mum's keeping their babies, I've seen how well adoption can work both for the birth mother and the baby. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">   [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: Kazzle
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 9:16am
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when i feel pregnant with Rhiannon we knew nothing at all, we just had sex, didnt even know i was at the right time....
then when i had my miscarriages i had to start watching my cycles as i need to know asap that i was pregnant so i could start treatment, and depending on how you look at it, during that time i did too much research and i think i just learnt too much, as the saying goes a little bit of knowledge goes a long way, unfortunately for me i had a lot of knowledge and i just ended up more and more stressed, but in the end its all worked out ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Kicker
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 10:14am
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Coming from the side of having suffering infertility for six years - i definately think its better having more knowledge, it makes you have a better understanding of what is happening with any treatments you are having, instead of feeling overwhelmed at such a stressful time.
I think that it empowers you to try everything you can to enhance your fertility before heading to the doctor, specialist. I agree with who-ever said about early testing and chemicals, but most people know that it is not ideal to early test, its not the 'knowledge' that makes them test earlier its the anticipation of a positive result.
Unless you are in this position i don' think that you know what you would do, to be honest. It is fine to have these ideas but unless put into the position you do not know.
Are these legalised abortions you are talking about?? What about all the backstreet abortions that happened years ago and probably still go on today. I actually think that with scientific advances if you chose to have an abortion you are in much safer hands and the mortality rate is lower.
... oh so thats were i personally went wrong all those years of TTC-ing!!!!! -------------  
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Babe wrote:Posted By: sweetpea
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 10:41am
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Its interesting to hear everyones different viewpoints on this topic. It was never meant to be a heated debate just a general query. TBh i think all posts have a point that i have to agree with at least somewhere along the line.
If technology/medical advances were around when my Dh aunt was around then maybe it would have saved her from the heartbreak of having numberous mc. In the end they adopted something thats easier to do 50 odd years ago then today. I guess that while most of us today proberly dont think about charting and temping until we are a few months down the track and still no BFP ( there are exceptions) the nowledge that we gain through doing this can be helpful if we have to seek medical help to concieve. There will always be those who choose not to go down the medical intervention path for numerous reasons those people may either choose to go down apotion path or will be happy within themselves that they can't have children and will carry on living their lives. I do believe that the stresses of todays life is a contributing factor to infertility i know of peopleswho have been told they can't have children and choose to go on with their lives take a hoilday and come back pregnant it is well document the effects of stress on our bodies. |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 11:30am
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The difference being of course is that now IVF is an option, where as 20 years ago it didn't exist. As for adoption that is now harder as there aren't enough babies available to adopt. Personally I prefer to know what's going on with my body etc, simply not knowing and not being able to do anything about TTC I would find really difficult. I'd be interested to see the statistics on infertility to see if women and men today really are more infertile or its simply that now there is a way of measuring and recording it. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: sweetpea
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 11:55am
| i think its more likely to be that people are seeking help more today then ever before. Its become more affordable and asscessable to ask for help its also not a taboo subject today like it once was. There is also far more technology/help avaliable. |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 12:14pm
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I’m quite happy to be TTC now rather than in the past! Sure, our medical advances have increased our understanding of how it all works, but I don’t think anything much has changed the pain that trying to conceive can cause when there are complications.
In the past, some people got pregnant when their husband looked at them – just like some ladies do now. People who struggled to have children still struggled – they just didn’t know why quite as well as we do. Some of the things we know can help us fix the problem. Others can at least give some sense of closure – if I can’t have children, I’d much rather know why. I think we tend to forget that the pain of anxiously waiting for AF to turn up (or not turn up) month after month would have been just as stressful, if you’d been trying for months on end. Not being able to test wouldn’t mean you wouldn’t focus on it! Also, now we know more about ovulation, people with irregular cycles don’t have to go through the ‘am-I-or -aren’t-I’ at the end of every cycle quite so much before AF shows up. Also, even if you disregard the above, the end result of TTC is hopefully a baby – and I know the medical advances in pregnancy and childbirth mean it’s a lot safer for Mum and Bubs nowdays! On a side note that’s kinda related, I’m so, SO glad I live now and not 100 years ago or so, when expectations on women were very different. Now, if I can’t have children, there are other ways I can focus the time and energy which I’ll put into raising a family if we do have kids. Back in the day, ladies didn’t have those options. If you couldn’t have kids, you’d pretty much failed at life. I’m not a rampant feminist in many ways (no offence meant to those of you who are) but I think we live in a much healthier society as far as that’s concerned. -------------   
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Posted By: sweetpea
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 12:35pm
| i have to agree with you on that last paragraph in particular hopes. Also you are right today if we can't have kids we can at least find out why and make our decisons from there. |
Posted By: Shezzey
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 6:38pm
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Babe It is easy for you to say that you wouldn't go the ivf route while you are holding your own baby. Do you realise that it is just as difficult to adopt a child - "stress, pain and finance"? Why do you think there are scientific advances? It cant be that some people with a simple life couldn't fall pregnant naturally??? oh, and... Don't take offence please |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 6:59pm
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I think it's hard to fully understand the amount of pain that must come with not being able to have children until you've been there. I'm only just starting to worry, and sometimes, it hurts like hell now. I can't imagine what it's like to have gone years without success... and like I said before, I seriously doubt the actual pain/stress/worry has even changed over the years for couples struggling to have children. It's just changed form, as it were.
So I don't think we should knock other's choices. We've decided we'll give pretty much anything a go, if it comes to it. But other people have their own reasons for making the choices they do. I think the one thing we do know is that the same thing doesn't do it for everyone. That said, I think we're lucky to live as we do now. At least we have both options. If people want to go down the medical track, they can. If people want to adopt, they can try that to. Neither's sure to work, but at least we have options, huh? -------------
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Posted By: MindyW
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 8:19pm
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I agree with Kicker etc. I'm sorry but until you know the pain of not being able to conceive...
If I have to go down the IVF path I will, if i dont thats great! But I will 100% support those that go down that path! Simple lives or not! ------------- My Beautiful Little Emily http://lilypie.com"> 
We've Waited for You Forever! |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 8:42pm
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My last comment for the night... your 'simple lives' comment did seem to press a few buttons, Babe. I'm sure you didn't mean it to hurt anyone's feelings. But for people who are very sensitive on this topic (as people tend to be, when something's hurting), it's easy to take that as if you're saying 'if you'd just simplify your life, you could have a baby'. In other words, 'Your doing something wrong. Something I did right, since I have a baby'.
I don't doubt for a moment that you didn't mean it that way at all. But this is kinda a touchy topic. I think I kind of get what you mean by that comment, but it kinda hurt a little too. -------------
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Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 10:01pm
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What the heck is a simple life anyway? I honestly have to say that people in the olden days probably didnt have it much more simple and certainly didn't have it any easier and there was heaps more women and babies who died in childbirth...give me the modern 'unsimplified' days anytime.
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Oct 11
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Posted By: yummymummy
Date Posted: 23 April 2009 at 10:21pm
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I think yes, we are better off - def yes!
I used charting when TTC Emma and we were one of the lucky ones to concieve quite quckly. She was born however 2 months early and thanks (great big THANKS) to research and technology, she's here with us today. Knowledge and information are vital I think and it's great to be able to get understand better why things are the way there are - as oppsed to saying something like 'it wasn't meant to be' as may have been the case 100 years ago. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 24 April 2009 at 8:48am
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I'm sorry to all who were affected by my comments.
To clarify the 'simple life' part - The advances of technology in the form of cellphones, laptops and other such devices have been suspected for many years of lowering the sperm count in men. The forms of contraception available have, through the developmental process and even now, caused fertility problems (I know this because its personally happened to me) and I guess this is more society related than scientific but the rates of obesity have shot through the roof which in turn affects fertility. There are issues that have absolutely nothing to do with klifestyle such as endo, pcos and the like. I have family members who have suffered the heartache of those conditions and I hurt for them and all you who are wanting to conceive and having problems. I think legalising abortiona and even just having them become so much more socially acceptable is really sad! There are so many people who would love to adopt a child and would make awesome parents but there are less and less babies out there because of the abortion rate. This would defin itely lower the 'pain, stress and finance' involved in adopting as many other epople have also said it was alot easier a few decades ago. Now finally to clear up the IVF issue!! I was told at 22 that my reaction to the pill had sterilised me. Devastating yes, life-changing yes, unbelievable yes. It was terrible for me I love children and desperately wanted a family of my own, always have since I was 6. Amazingly enough I was 3 weeks pregnant when they told me this and I managed to carry my son to fullterm. There were tons of complications, medical and personal and I almost lost my baby a few times (inc when my body started having a reaction to the pregnancy and I started fitting and my body was closing down and trying to stop supporting my babies life). I have since been told that I should be able to conceive but the chances of me carrying another baby naturally conceived to full-term are slim to none and after 3-4 mcs its hard not to believe that. That being said I am still going to TTC and have faith that my God has His hand on things. I know that I'm truly blessed to have my beautiful, miracle child and anything else is icing on the cake. I have been told that IVF and uhm artificial implantation? may help the cause but thats not a road I'm going to take so yes I do have that option and I have made that decision. Lastly - everybody is entitled to their opinion and next time you read 'nobody get offended please ' take note! Remember that this is a web forum and you actually don't know what another person is going or has gone through to get where they are. I certainly haven't shared everything I've gone through on this forum (hell I barely talk about it in RL) and I respect the fact that you all have experiences that have shaped your opinions. Background for opinions isn't always put down in a post so maybe ASK why someone has written what they have instead of REACTING.-------------
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Posted By: Kicker
Date Posted: 24 April 2009 at 10:10am
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Babe - no offense was taken, but if you are going to throw general statements out - such as the simple life one - and you don't want a personal reaction... maybe you should try to clarify what you meant. You don't need to put personal details into it, but explain as you did above about the use of cellphones etc.
Infertility and TTC are very emotive topics and will elicit a repsonse, sensitivity and tact go a long way. Enough said from me. 'No offense intended' -------------
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Posted By: GuestGuest
Date Posted: 24 April 2009 at 12:46pm
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Kicker, I agree.
Babe, what you are saying is very provocative, the areas of IVF, infertlity, abortion and adoption are all very sensitive areas - and you can times the sensitivity by one hundred on a TTC forum so you can't expect people not to take offence just because you say "no offence intended". |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 24 April 2009 at 1:05pm
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Thanks Babe - I appreciate your openness and your comments.
TTC does make us so ridiculously sensitive. The amount of times I've wanted to scone someone IRL for something simple that they didn't even mean in an offensive way (or probably even think about!) is silly. To be honest, I need to toughen up a little - but that can be hard to do!!!! -------------
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Posted By: MindyW
Date Posted: 24 April 2009 at 5:29pm
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Babe, I wasnt having a "go" and I value your opinions the same as I do with other peoples opinions- one of the reasons actually why I feel I get so much out of this forum.
It is important to highlight that they are just that..opinions and everyone has I right to have their own and I'm sure, no i'm positive, that nobody wants to take that away from anyone else here. However, it is important to know that topics like abortion, IVF, "Artifical" (as you said..I think it was artificial insemination) pregnancies are very emotive and stemming from those issues is usually a lot of pain and hurt and feelings of loss and grief. I understand that you have had a rough time of things too, as have many of us on here. I'm personally currently working through a lot of issues of feeling completely incompetant for not being able to do what my body should be able to do naturally... it is very hard. I just think that it was natural that people would be hurt over some statements that were made, and giving you the benefit of doubt I'm sure they werent intentionally hurtful. Just know that its a very sensitive topic as others have expressed.  ------------- My Beautiful Little Emily http://lilypie.com">
We've Waited for You Forever! |
Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 25 April 2009 at 9:18am
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All good then glad that was cleared up!
**I've edited this as I've run my posts past a few different people and while I'm sorry that people got upset I don't believe that I said anything insensitive, tactless or hurtful. I stated an opinion to a question that was asked and my reasoning was completely valid and scientifically backed up. I wish everybody luck on their TTCing journey** I'm sending baby dust to you all *sprinkle sprinkle* -------------
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Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 25 April 2009 at 9:21am
It was artificial implantation Mindy where they implant the egg INTO the wall or something. Can't remember the exact details and I think it had a trickier name  -------------
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Posted By: Shezzey
Date Posted: 25 April 2009 at 11:18am
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Hi Babe, Its All Good Now I thought is was cute when you said : I'm sending baby dust to you all *sprinkle sprinkle* |
I have learned along the way that I am entitled to my opinion but it doesnt give me permission to be insensitive or tactless. Posted By: MindyW
Date Posted: 25 April 2009 at 5:33pm
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lol I think the "sprinkle, sprinkle" was a nice touch
------------- My Beautiful Little Emily http://lilypie.com">
We've Waited for You Forever! |