Who just saw the news?
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Topic: Who just saw the news?
Posted By: MissAngel
Subject: Who just saw the news?
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 6:37pm
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About some quack saying that women shouldnt have pain relief during birth because they dont bond with thier babies if they do
what a bunch of CRAP! Crikey.. I was drugged up to the eyeballs and I had no problems whatsoever bonding with my child.. Hippies again. GAH ------------- Alex, Thomas and Lily http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: hannibal
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 6:58pm
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I think it was some guy who said we shouldn't have pain relief and the women was saying we should!
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Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 7:13pm
perhaps we should go back to the days of no pain relief for surgery too
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Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 7:26pm
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wasnt it a midwife who has had children that pushes the no pain relief idea? I was only half listen while cooking tea but i heard that she in some ways has the support of the midwifery council because they believe people are too quick to jump at the drugs. They also believe that if in the case of a traumatic birth with no drugs it will also impair bonding (which i fully agree with).
I think i will watch the story again on the website before i say much more tho -------------   
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Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 7:29pm
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I know there are side effects of the drugs etc but also there are medical reasons why people need them, and also why baby needs the labour managed etc sometimes.
I do believe that pain relief is given too readily (this coming from someone who had an epi!) but I don't think it affects bonding at all. I can't believe that a man (or a woman who has not actually been through childbirth), regardless of his credentials, can honestly comment on it all like he knows what it could be like. I don't think ANY of us knew just what we were in for when we signed up to do this lol I'd never listen to a man telling me about childbirth. Maybe if we all let men pass oranges through their penises without any pain relief then they could comment, until then, shut up! 
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Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 7:35pm
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I saw the article on the news, and I have to say it was hardly groundbreaking stuff - society has been divided on the merits of pain relief during labour/birth for as log as it has been an option!
Having experienced both a drug-free and an epidural delivery (and one somewhere in between with a failed epi ) I have to say that drug-free births are overrated!
I'm one of those freaks who actually enjoys giving birth, and it was a really empowering experience giving birth with no pain relief, even tho it was overwhelming and I went into mild shock afterwards, it was really, really awesome. But with my first birth I had a very long latent first stage (30+ hours) and I wouldn't have had the energy to give birth if not for the epidural which gave me enough of a rest to be able to push on (excuse the pun). I do have to wonder too - if me gave birth, would all births take place under general anesthetic?  -------------  Maya Grace (28/02/03)
 (02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: Febgirl
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 7:44pm
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Here is the original article if anyone is interested:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/jul/12/pregnancy-pain-natural-birth-yoga - Article ------------- Two little girls under 2! 
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Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 7:59pm
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Ok it was a man and i dont agree with it being a rite of passage but i do think it can affect bonding in some cases just like tramatic pain free births can affect bonding. I do believe we are too quick to jump at the drug option i know i fully intended on asking for drugs as soon as i got to hospital and i dont agree with planned c-sections (if there is no reason other than convenience)
They cant say no drugs what so ever it should be taken case by case as everyone has a different labour experience but we also shouldnt have to suffer for the sake of suffering - its a hard one i think its hard not to be on the fence about it -------------
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Posted By: angel4
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 8:14pm
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i think too many women go 'into' labour planning on using every drug possible. Its about our mindset. Why cant we go in planning on not using drugs and then if its really really bad decide to use them.
I sometimes feel that i dont really have a right to comment on this type of thing though - i had a drug free labour (gas is a drug) so sometimes wonder if maybe mine wasnt as bad as some women have - i dont know and have know way of knowing. I do however think that drugs are very readily offered though and i dont think this is a good thing. I was being offered drugs the whole time i was in hospital (son was born at 36wks) and on numerous occasions said that if i needed drugs i would ask for them and yet still kept being offered. Gas, epidurals, pethidine and other drugs have been normalised in western culture - which i think is a real shame. However i dont think its as bad in NZ as it is in some other countries |
Posted By: emz
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 9:18pm
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I agree with you on the offering of drugs, angel4. My epi was ordered as soon as I got to hospital (Ok yes they needed to slow the contractions as baby was distressed blah blah blah) but that was before an internal or anything which I thought was just ridiculous (obviously after the fact, I fully trusted my mw at the time - not now!)
I have to say that I wouldn't have coped without an epi but hope, like most people do, that this time I won't have to use any/many drugs. It's one of those things though - every labour is different, every woman is different. If it was so black and white that every woman could have a healthy baby and be healthy herself during and after labour then drugs would have never been an option. unfortunately that's not always the case. |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 9:28pm
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i dont think there is anything wrong with wanting all the drugs you can get(like i did) i was in such major pain and having been in the hospital for a week and induced twice and blah blah blah.. to get over the worst pain I have ever had in my life i had an epi and then all the pain relief afterwards...
but i do respect others and their choices and think it's very weird a man (havent read the article though) would say that about bonding.! I have had no troubles bonding with my child I think if it was in excruciating pain the whole time that may have been different for bonding? for me personally I needed epi for medical reasons but also if i could go pain free then that was a great option for me!:) but as Emz said everyone is different.. but i definitely think they should be able to take no for an answer as well!:) ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 9:31pm
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Im having an epidural for my next birth , I could not actually have another baby if that wasn't an option .
Both Ty and C were born without pain relief, and im still waiting for my medal , I do not ,and will not (unless its a really really quick labour ) want to do it without pain relief again . Edited to add, nor do I feel bad or guilty about that decision , and dare I say it , if it affects bonding with my baby for a couple of days, SO BE IT . The thought of actually giving birth again without pain relief fills me with fear , and even tho im sure I will forget the pain , I simply wont do it without an epidural again , unless I don't get there in time . Just like breastfeeding and formular, when I go to Caitlyn's school , I cant tell which kids were born with no drugs and which were . ------------- 
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Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 9:42pm
*starts shaking with fear * can you please pretend you didn't say that ...humor me , please, that never happens REAAAALLLY right ? they always work (lie to me dammit ! :-P ) -------------
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Maya wrote:Posted By: Mamma2N
Date Posted: 14 July 2009 at 11:04pm
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Totally agree with everything you have said angel4.. But just to add, I certainly think that women should have a choice.. Pain relief should be apart of labour/birth, however I don't believe it should be offered so readily..
I planned a drug-free birth (did give into gas and would have it again - any day of the week in fact ) and I loved every part of my birthing experience, especially the fact that I can recall every moment of it.
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Posted By: rachelsea
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 9:24am
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I also enjoyed my drug free birth experience and would do it again, but agree that the drugs should definitely be available to those who need it! (Oh, but next time I won't bother trying the gas, seeing it made me vomit!!) ------------- DD 4yrs DS 2yrs http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: mummyofprinces
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 11:40am
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I think no one can make that decision but the woman giving birth.
I personally wanted a drug free water birth but as Jake was being monitored as IUGR from 34 weeks and I developed PE this was not going to happen. I had to be be induced, drug number 1. For 35 hours I soldiered on but once they broke my waters the contractions went from nothing to OMFG in 30 minutes, so I took the gas.... 3 hours after ARM I took the epi. I dont regret that I was becoming hysterical The pain became so intense so quickly I was shaking and starting to hyperventilate. If I had not had the epi I think I would have had issues bonding with Jake. I did apologise to him after he was born for exposing him to the drugs so early in his life, I dont think he will hold it against me. Next time around I am taking it as it comes. If baby is healthy and I am healthy may be I will get my waterbirth. If I get contractions like I had with Jake before 8cm chances are I will take the epi again, but maybe not as strong this time. -------------   
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Posted By: mummyofprinces
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 11:42am
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Oh and Kelly, my sis epi only worked on her V, she felt all her contractions but not him coming out. Sorry hun, they are not fool proof! Mine on the otherhand took all the pain away very quickly. I still have a crush on my anaethist. -------------
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Posted By: jazzy
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 11:56am
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Well I think pain releif is something you decide when it is time.
A friend of mine had all her babies without pain releif, she poped them out after a few hours of labour, oh how I enved her & other women who could do that. My plan for my first was no pain releif, tough it out, have a baby, hmmm not so easy for everyone so I found out, after hours & hours of labour pains, medical teams doing invertergations, I had a epi & an emergancy c/section. So what I leant from that & used for the next 2 times was gas, & pethidine make me very sick, so did not use them again, (i vomit anyway), epi are a must for me. I tried v deliverys all 3 times, & put up with the pain, failed inductions & had to have 2 emergency c/sects. So next time, I will have an epi, & most likly a c/section. Hats off to all that can do it without pain releif & don't have complications that demand it. For the rest that want / need it, I say do what is best for you, you don't need to be in unbearable pain to bond with you baby & enjoy the birthing process. 
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Posted By: NovemberMum
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 1:24pm
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when I discussed my birth plan with MW I said I wanted to use as much natural pain relief as possible.\
I did end up using gas it did get to a point where I was begging them to give me anything I couldn't have pethidine as I had gone form 3cm to 7cm in 30 minutes and would have had to wait about an hour before I delivery with an epidural so instead I just sucked on gas while having a ventous birth. I will say though that despite the pain as soon as my daughter was in my arms I "forgot" about it. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: noisybaby
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 3:02pm
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I had a drug free induced birth and I didn't think it hurt much at all. I never screamed or cried. I do think sometimes that the pain is all in your head and you are capable of managing it without pain relief. But I do believe some people think its gona hurt too much before it even happens and opt for the drugs without actually seeing if its managable to begin with.
Theres always gona be people for and against things. Just do whats best for you. Only you know what your capable of |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 3:18pm
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Mine wasn't in my head ,it did hurt, still managed to get through it , twice, but I did not enjoy it at all .
Didn't help with Ty's birth that id been having contractions for the past 4 days and was exhausted . So next time , drugs all the way (and the epi better blimming work  ) and i have no problem whatsoever with that decision , I hate giving birth .-------------
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Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 4:21pm
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Noisybaby, you must be one of the blessed few with a high pain tolerance in birth.
This thread has reminded me of the ripping pain of my stomach, the birth itself wasn't bad, ie the pushing out bit but sh*t the lead up to that was excruciating & I was lucky that I only had about an hour of extreme pain with short hard contractions. I certainly screamed at times the rest of it I was trying to block it cause I didn't want to scare the full birthing suite. I'm definitely scared of the possible next time. I didn't have time for drugs this time so next time would be worse. Honestly a man talking about pain in childbirth is ridiculous, let alone being a midwife...how can he have the concept of it! ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com"> 
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: noisybaby
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 5:47pm
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hey i'm not saying it was all in your head but so people are influenced by what other people say. Have you ever noticed that there are hardly any people that actually talk about having an enjoyable child birth experience but they are nearly always about tearing, stitches, blood, drugs and things that went wrong. then people start to think that is the norm with childbirth. i knew it was gona hurt but i didn't let it scare me. your own mind is the most powerful drug available just most people don't know how to use it. I used breathing to help manage it. Most people use the drugs. I was actually put off epidurals by the idea of a needle being inserted into my spine. to me that sounded like it would hurt more.
i do still stand by the idea that everyone has the right to choose. its just a shame that drugs seem to be the main one offered |
Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 7:47pm
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omg what a load of bull what is that dr is on about!
I had pethadine, gas and an epidural in the last few hours of my horrendous labout and I had NO problems what so ever bonding with caden. When they first handed him to me it was instant, everyone else faded out and it was just me and Caden
*shakes head* some of the crap they come out with these days! Makes me so mad, Nothing wrong with having pain relief during labour! ETA-Oh and the pain definitely was not in my head! It HURT like a mother lol, I dont wanna do it again lol!! ------------- |
Posted By: mummyofprinces
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 9:06pm
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The pain wasnt in my head either, one minute I was standing in the shower singing to myself and dancing a little jig through my hurty contractions the next minute it was like I was being ripped apart.
If the next labour is like the first I will be having another epi and I have no problems saying that. I hope its not like that though, I want a labour like yours noisybaby. Very jealous.-------------
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Posted By: scribe
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 9:09pm
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Grrr that makes me sooo angry - I didn't see the programme but how dare a man (or a woman who hasn't given birth) say women shouldn't have pain relief.
Like someone else alluded to, I didn't have any pain relief (except for DH's acupressure) and rather than enhance bonding, it could have jeopardised bonding - as I came away from the birth experience (induction, ventouse) bordering on traumatised. Noisybaby, I don't necessarily agree that drugs are the main option offered - during labour I felt that my MW was actually trying to prevent me from having an epidural (I think my DH would back me up on this one), and prelabour they encouraged TENS machines, waterbirth etc rather than drugs. I think with the move away from GP care to MWs the 'birth is a natural experience' message is definitely out there. While I believe that, but I also believe that it is a very painful natural experience and, in this modern day and age, women shouldn't have to go all that pain when they don't need to. I am only giving birth again if I am guaranteed an epidural! |
Posted By: weegee
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 9:28pm
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I'm of two minds about this one. Keep in mind that I'm coming from a position of having had an intervention filled birth experience so I'm by no means anti pain relief etc.
I just wanted to say I know what noisybaby is trying to say. It's not that the pain is all in your head, but the fact that women are scared of labour and expect it to hurt so much causes them to tense up and THAT is what causes the pain. Google "Fear Tension Pain Syndrome" if you want to know more about it. It's what hypnobirthing is all about trying to avoid. The theory is if you're able to relax and go with it it actually won't hurt so much. (I started hypnobirthing but then felt silly so didn't continue with it, read the book etc but didn't do the preparation I needed to, so when I got to the hospital I remember thinking "I'm not sure I thought through this", clammed up and it all turned to custard from there.) I think the main point in this though is that every woman should have the right to choose what they want in childbirth, if that means drugs etc then that should be their prerogative, if that means an all natural home birth then ditto. Nobody should be able to say that they know best for anybody else - especially a man who is effectively saying "harden up"! 
What I liked about seeing that on the news was when the story finished, the male newsreader opened his mouth to say something, obviously flummoxed, and the female newsreader said "I think it's probably best if we don't discuss that one"!!!
edit spelling ------------- 
Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010 |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 15 July 2009 at 10:33pm
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I had no idea what labour was going to be like , so I didn't have a mindset that it would hurt, I didn't read anything about labour when I was pregnant with Caitlyn , so it wasn't a pain i was expecting , and therefore definetly not in my head .
Second labour for the majority I tried to use visualisation techniques , picturing him as a baby , not me being in labour , this worked for a while, then the pain in my body took over . I know some people enjoy giving birth , thats great for them im not one of them -------------
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Posted By: rachndean
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 12:03pm
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Aparantly there is a video on Youtube, where they used a machine to simulate labour on a guy. My friend was telling me about it last night. I think that horrid horrid man you is preaching about drug free birthing should be given a dose of that!!!! Then we can see how quickly he changes his tune
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Posted By: sally belly
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 12:30pm
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I know what you're trying to say noisybaby. I have a friend who, while pregnant, kept saying that she wanted an epi straight up. I just thought she should wait & see how her labour went before deciding (not that I told her so!). She ended up having a c/sect... . Anyway, it was her choice of course.
Last pregnancy I did yoga where we focused a lot on breathing & relaxation techniques. I was able to use these techniques during the early stages of labour but when the going got tough, there was no way breathing was enough of a relief/distraction for me!! I remember the silly lady who took our AN classes saying that brushing your teeth or gripping onto a hair brush could be useful distraction techniques Umm, I don't think so lady!!
I definitely agree that we women should have the choice to have pain relief or not. And a man adding in his 2cents doesn't really help as he will never experience giving birth & until you've done it you really don't know what it's like... ETA: my MW has already told me that this time round I'll be given an epi reasonably early on in case a c/sect is needed in a hurry, in case of "stress" on my previous c/sect scar etc. Part of me was quite relieved to hear that... -------------    
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Posted By: Snappy
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 12:44pm
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I had an epidural with Janaya, barely felt a thing and was pretty much offered it as soon as I got into the hospital. I had no issues with bonding, I cried when she was born.
With Jackson i had gas (which didnt work) and I was rather traumatised when he came out. I didnt even cry or have the urge to hold him initially. I spent a lot of time just lying there thinking over and over about how blardy much it hurt! Sounds like women have now got another reason to feel guilty about not doing things the natural way... |
Posted By: Glow
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 1:43pm
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Thats a bit off. Do we want to be the home of the last hippies?! We all have the freedom of choice & shouldnt be made to feel bad if you didnt want to or couldnt choose/go the naturalway
Sometimes if there wasnt a choice, there wouldnt be any other way  Yes a natural birth would be the ideal & have seen how empowingly wonderful the experince is but it is not the be all & end all
------------- Mummy of Two Boys B: 2004 K: 2007 |
Posted By: angel4
Date Posted: 16 July 2009 at 4:54pm
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i think its awful that this man is saying that drugs will affect bonding, as if us mums dont have enough to worry about.
i am sorry if my first post sounded that drug free was the only way to go - i do not think that at all. I just really feel that it should be each womans decision and that the medical professionals should respect that. I think that pain could be just as traumatising to bonding as drugs if you cant cope with the pain. A woman who is too exhausted to even hold her baby cant breastfeed or cope with all the changes happening. I dont think this MAN has any idea what he is talking about. I must confess an epidural scared the crap out of me - so am actually in awe of anyone who can have it lol. A needle into my spine scared me a lot more than labour. At one point during the birth i remember thinking that i might like to take something (gas was what i was thinking) but then i was too scared of vomiting lol and decided this pain of the contractions was at least familiar - weird logic i know. I am one of those people that actually enjoyed labour and birth - but please dont think i have it all easy as my pregnancys arent a walk in the park - Maybe im some kinda weirdo that enjoys pain dont know but for me it was a very real experience and i cant wait to give birth again.
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