circumcision
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Category: Have A Baby?
Forum Name: First baby? Second or more?
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URL: https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28414
Printed Date: 05 June 2025 at 9:21am
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Topic: circumcision
Posted By: Guests
Subject: circumcision
Date Posted: 28 August 2009 at 9:37pm
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Hi guys
We ar thinking of getting bubs circumcised when he's born. I am looking for peoples experiences with it. How old were they ? Where did yo get it done? and how much was it ? Please tell good or bad :-) Ta |
Replies:
Posted By: weegee
Date Posted: 28 August 2009 at 9:53pm
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I won't force my opinions on the subject on you, but just wanted to say I happened to be reading up on this a little earlier today, you might find the article I was reading interesting: http://drmomma.blogspot.com/2009/08/protect-your-uncircumcised-son-expert.html - Peaceful Parenting blog
There's more unbiased info here: http://www.cirp.org/pages/parents/ - Circumcision Information & Resource Pages ------------- 
Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010 |
Posted By: weegee
Date Posted: 28 August 2009 at 9:56pm
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Also if you have a spare hour and are truly interested, this documentary on YouTube is worth checking out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bx89xECfHG4 - Cut: Slicing Through the Myths of Circumcision -------------
Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 28 August 2009 at 10:06pm
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I haven't checked out teh youtube vid yet,
Thanks for the links, feel free to share your opinion, I am not easily offended 
I would like to get a feel for what others think 
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 28 August 2009 at 10:24pm
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glad you posted that weegee, i had lost the info i had on it.
i personally dont see a need for it . there was never any question of having either of my boys done. i dont think it is a very common procedure in nz tho. |
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 29 August 2009 at 2:01pm
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Are you doing this because your husband is? My hubby was dead set we'd be getting Cooper done. He hasn't been & it hasn't been brought up either, I certainly wasn't going to bring it up after my friend showed me an infected circumcision on a baby.
The majority of NZ boys are not done. So if he is done he will be different from the boys in the changing room. I think you'll find it hard to get someone to do it? I think it is usually done around three days? If you can't find someone try contacting someone in the religions that practise it. ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com"> 
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 29 August 2009 at 2:17pm
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I remember when my little brother was done at 2 weeks ( I am 13 years older than him) The looks he gave my mother over the next few days were ones of absolute betrayal. I heard him scream and I was sitting in the car outside the clinic.
It was a place on Lincoln Rd, Henderson. I don't remember the name, or know if they still do it. ------------- 
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Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 29 August 2009 at 2:57pm
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my Dh really wanted it done but only so they looked the same..lol ...i asked the mw and several docs who all said it makes no difference in terms of infections etc and we don't have religious reasons for it so didn't do it.
she also said very few docs do it anymore...two people in my parents generation even had trouble getting it done. ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 29 August 2009 at 6:51pm
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Yeha dh is , we haven't made up our minds yet but i am def leaning towards not . Have talked today to a couple of friends about what they did with their boys and they haven't either.
Thanks for all the advice and opinions 
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Posted By: KitKat
Date Posted: 29 August 2009 at 7:44pm
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LOL I just got really confused- I was looking at your ticker- and saw the 'Our Gorgeors Girl!!!' part, and thought you were having a girl- I was like WTF!
Sorry- Nappy brain. Realised it was attached to the bottom ticker for Ruby. DUH. Personally- I wouldnt... ouchy. 
(Boy or Girl!!! happens yknow!) But hey- nice to see you guys are looking at all sides of the debate/topic/situation etc. Its not something you can take back.....so a pretty big decision On that note- Ive heard that some men- when they are a bit older, go about 'regrowing' a foreskin... hmmmm tricky buisness Id imagine. More hassel than its worth I rekon. ------------- 
http://www.littlegreenfruit.blogspot.com - Little Green Fruit |
Posted By: Emmi_
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 8:46am
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Interesting stuff, my DH and I are TTC, and had this discussion yesterday.. DH is, and I thought we wouldnt, we arent religious, and if there arent any 'benifits' of doing it (cleaner etc) then I would prefer not to, DH doesnt have any reasons why he wants to, 'just does'. The pain thing really puts me off, I dont care if the bub will remember it, I will!
Thanks for the links Weegee! ------------- 
+1 May 09 Angel 
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Posted By: crafty1
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 10:31am
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Talking of regrowing my ex had the opposite - he had his foreskin removed when he was 15 as he wanted to look like the others.
Nowadays it is very rare to be circumcised so yes regrowing will be the thing to do to fit in. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 11:32am
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I think my role as a Mum is to protect my kids from harm so I personally wouldnt cut bits off causing baby pain "just because"
I cant even bear immunisation day lol (and both my kids dont even cry with them, they just give the nurse an evil look)  ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year  http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 11:44am
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Its is something that can be done later if there is a medical reason for it. My grandfather got his done in his 70s due to prostate.
I don't see the point of circumsion. the foreskin is meant to be there and its a form of protection against infection. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">   [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 12:28pm
hehehe my DH did this to improve sensation down there. It certainly seemed like a tricky business lol |
KitKat wrote:Posted By: weegee
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 12:38pm
I had to stop watching the documentary I posted a link to at the 30min mark because they have footage of a bris ceremony and the poor baby's cry was so piercing, it broke my heart  (the mum was crying and the dad was crowing about how his newborn son "took it like a man"  )
Pleased to hear I'm not alone in my views on this one! -------------
Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010 |
Posted By: weegee
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 12:39pm
plus ooh please don't tell my DH but as a woman having experienced one of each I have to say I prefer it uncircumcised  -------------
Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010 |
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 12:52pm
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Hahaha Weegee, TMI!
Not something I've had to consider having had all girls, but I'd probably lean towards getting it done as a boy I grew up with had to have it done for medical reasons at 13 and it was by all accounts not pleasant so I figure rather sooner than later. But like I said, I've never really looked into it and if I did some research I might change my mind. If you do decide to go with it, I have a friend with a newborn who just had him done in the West Auck area so I can find out the details for you. -------------  Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: Red
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 1:15pm
| I have to say I don't understand circumcism. It must have been put there for a reason, so why chop it off? |
Posted By: Twinboys2b
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 3:17pm
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We got the boys done for religeous reasons and as long as you have a good surgeon who uses a good dose of anesthetic then it doesn't 'hurt' the baby. My boys cried when their clothes were taken off & was held by a 'stranger' but the cry didn't change (i.e. pitch or get worse) when the procedure was getting done as they didn't feel anything - I was there the whole time.
I wouldn't have done it if they didn't get anesthetic, I feel for your brother Kellie as he obviously didn't get enough to numb the pain. I don't believe that they 'know' what's happening at such a young age & man does it heal fast, the boys dressing was off the next day. Stright after it I just BF & they fell to sleep & were fine from then onwards, no ongoing pain when peeing or anything. Either the anesthetic (sorry bout spell) was so strong that they didn't have any pain or (& what I think) is that they're just babies & what happens one day they don't remember like you & I. It doesn't seem to be the 'norm' these days but it is done. We had it done by a close family friend (who does it all the time) but otherwise I think it can cost a bit to do. ------------- 3yr old gorgeous ID twin boys. |
Posted By: Twinboys2b
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 4:56pm
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Oh weegee, I have to agree that the part in the video where he says 'he took it like a man' was obviously deaf. Thar nearly made me cry hearing that baby's cry . ------------- 3yr old gorgeous ID twin boys. |
Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 6:18pm
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I remember reading an article about it and a number of the (circumsised) men said ... it's not OK to circumsise females so why is it OK to circumsise males. I don't have an issue if it for religious reasons AND it is done with anaesthetic AND by someone who knows what they are doing but I do think that you need to be really clear why you're doing it.
DH had it done and I still haven't had the guts to ask MIL why .------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 7:31pm
She probably never asked anyone why either, in "those days" (coz we're so old and all ) it was just the done thing, Mum said she took my brother back to the maternity unit to have him done and it was almost like immunisations in that if you didn't do it, Plunket looked at you funny.------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 7:43pm
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Yeah they also liked to leave the kids outside in the fresh air in the pram all day ..
What I don't understand for those of you who do it for religious reasons .. if God didnt want man to have a foreskin, why did he make it? ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: mummyofprinces
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 8:08pm
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Dh was dead set on it. I told him it was his decision but i was not going to be a part of it because I didnt think it was necessary.
I asked DH why and he said he didnt want Jake to be different to all the other boys and get picked on. He asked around and found out that no one he knew with a son had had it done so figured Jake would be the odd one out if he was done and that was that. Personally as bad as it may be to have it done later on, the chances are not that high so its a risk I am willing to take. But thats just me... I wouldnt even know who to ask to do it! -------------   
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Posted By: KitKat
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 8:20pm
heheheheheeeeee Tis a tricky subject to be sure. Again I say- Ouchy. -------------
http://www.littlegreenfruit.blogspot.com - Little Green Fruit |
Posted By: Twinboys2b
Date Posted: 30 August 2009 at 8:45pm
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Lilfatty: I'm not strongly religeous, DH is more so than me. In my religeon it's based on something G-d instructed someone to do any way my view on it is that if they didn't get it done then they would have to do it latter in life if they wanted to be strongly religeous (I'm hoping they won't go that direction he he) so I didn't want to stop that option for them or give them obvious pain latter in life (if that makes sense)? I know quite a few who have had it done latter in life because they chose to become strongly religeous which would be increadibly painful & much more so than being a baby so it made sense for us. ------------- 3yr old gorgeous ID twin boys. |
Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 8:42am
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Ahhh its based on a story in the bible? I havent read it all so I wasnt sure what the reasoning was. ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 10:33am
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From the Herald this morning ...
Never once in the three and a half years that I have had a baby, then toddler, and now a pre-school boy, has the subject of circumcision ever raised its head - forgive the pun. That's perhaps about right, because only ten per cent of the male newborn population of New Zealand undergo this procedure. On the odd occasion it's done for medical reasons, other parents believe it to be more hygienic, but in the main the reasons are cultural/religious - the babies are Jewish or Muslim (Polynesians are also circumcised but usually later as a rite of passage). As we are not any of the above we follow the "live and let flap" philosophy, as do most of our contemporaries. Funny, really, because most of the fathers of today's young children would have themselves been circumcised, as the procedure was routine up until the late 1970s. But it may not be long before public health officials push New Zealanders to rethink the issue. That's because the Center For Disease Control and Prevention in the US is mulling over whether routine circumcision of all baby boys born would reduce the spread of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. According to The New York Times, clinical trials in Kenya, South Africa and Uganda found that "heterosexual men who were circumcised were up to 60 per cent less likely to become infected with HIV over the course of the trials than those who were not circumcised". Routes of HIV transmission are very different in Africa from the US, and so African studies mainly involve heterosexual men at risk from female partners. Whether this data would necessarily provide answers to the US AIDS problem, which is mainly confined to the homosexual community, is unknown. But what is known is that the tissue in foreskins is more susceptible to HIV infection, and that uncircumcised men have higher rates of many STDs, not just HIV. Is it a reason to preemptively remove them in newborn boys? In the US debate, opponents of President Obama's universal healthcare plans have seized upon this new thrust in public policy to once more demonise his supposedly 'nanny-state' ideologies. Just a few days ago, that final word in all things conservative claimed this, according to Salon.com: "It is President Obama who wants [to] mandate circumcision... And that means, if we need to save our penises from anybody, it's Obama." It doesn't seem likely to me that President Obama wants to remove the foreskins of American males (above his other pressing issues), and I'd hazard a guess that universal circumcision is even pretty low on John Key 'To Do' list. But that doesn't mean the debate might not be one soon coming to a newborn circle near you. ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 11:24am
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Oh Elias is safe then, he wont be having sex .. ever ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 1:50pm
No, Daniel won't either. No hussy is going to take my boy  ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: Jacobsmumma
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 4:48pm
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Hmm, this is defo a touchy subject. Before my son was born I was thinking of getting my son circumsised for all the usual reasons (which are pretty pathetic I now admit) ie its cleaner, he'll look more like his daddy and mates, but after a friend kindly educated me I quickly changed my mind. She also referred me to a link on mums on top which showed a circumsision operation and it was awful. The poor little boy was squirming around on the table screaming his little lungs out. I was so heartbroken and instantly thought I couldn't bear to do this to my boy. It doesn't matter if he doesn't look like his daddy as he won't be looking at his daddy's willy for long anyway, hehe. Plus the hygiene reason is silly too as there's nothing that needs to be done till their about 4yrs old and then you can just teach them to clean themselves the same as you would if you had a daughter.
Anyway, he's your son and you should do what you feel comfortable doing. ------------- 
(9lbs 6ozs) 
(11lbs 4ozs) |
Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: 31 August 2009 at 8:05pm
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Wow the American's really like circumcision though anyway - It's the norm there and there are always ongoing jokes on sitcoms and the like about foreigners with 'turtlenecks'. So chances are it wouldn't be a big problem to turn the public anyway. Although talk about a 'nanny state' sheesh!
However, surely condoms are better than removing the foreskin in terms of preventing HIV?
I saw a documentary on circumcision once and the doctor likened it to removing the eyelid from the eye. It's there to keep the penis lubricated and safe from contamination. I know of a guy who did get a circumcision as an adult though because his foreskin was unable to be retracted so he couldn't clean it properly and it was getting infection after infection. -------------  
 
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Posted By: X
Date Posted: 03 September 2009 at 2:19pm
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DH is circumcised & he strongly wanted to circumcise our son. I was dead against it (didn't see the point of it really & didn't want our son to suffer), but DH carried on & on about it & eventually I gave in. I don't have a willy & DH does & I decided you have to pick your battles & this was going to be one I chose not to win. So we had our son circumcised at about 5 weeks I think. We were both in the room & he had anaesthetic & believe me he didn't scream out & screech in pain or any of those things. He honestly didn't feel it. Our surgeon used the plastibell method which doesn't involved cutting-the foreskin is stretched over a plastic bell & it's blood supply is cut off & the skin dies & just falls off. The plastibell comes off itself after a few days & there was no infection or ongiong pain or anything like that. And I really do belive that our son suffered no ill after effects from the procedure & won't be scarred for life! I wasn't for the procedure, but it's done now & that's just that. I'm not sorry we had done-it was important to DH & sometimes you have to let others have their victory. I can't see our son ever blaming us for having it done, especially if we explain that we had his best interests at heart.
I know there are a lot of people out there who are anti the procedure, but I think as long as you make an informed decision & you have it done humanely then that is your business. We are all just doing what we think is best. Hopefully I have a girl next so DH & I don't have to have this argument again!
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Posted By: Shelt
Date Posted: 03 September 2009 at 5:21pm
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My sister has a 3.5 year old who now has a medical reason for getting it done. He's had infections in/around the tip of his penis since he was a few months old. After the umpteenth infection he was referred to a specialist who said his foreskin is too tight and doesn't retract and so was harbouring lots of bugs that were causing the infection. He needs to be circumsized to stop the infections but the policy in NZ is not to do it till the boy is in his teens as the foreskin can grow back. He also said the things that lots of other have said ie he'll be different and that might make him self consious, and that it will be hard to find a doctor to do it even though there's a good reason. So now my sister is stuck coz she doesn't really want him to have one but he needs it and the doctors won't do it till he's at least 13 (and think how traumatising it will be to a 13 year old compared to a baby who won't even remember), and meantime he will continue to get infections every so often and there's nothing she can do about it. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Ant
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 4:20pm
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I know two people who had it done older for medical reasons (one at about 12-13yrs, one in his early 20's), and while it wasn't pleasant from all accounts it hasn't seemed to traumatize them any. At the earlier age the main trauma seemed to be that his mum was in the room
For the other it was well anaesthetised and he didn't seem to have any problems with it healing. Needing to have it done later does seem uncommon, so for me that wouldn't be a good reason - just like I wouldn't remove tonsils or an appendix just in case. I understand people having it done for religious reasons but I don't really understand why you'd do it otherwise. If the person wants it done themselves when they're older then that's their decision. I guess I see it like any other form of body modification and likely less painful than healing a tattoo or piercing, but something that is generally permanent so should be a decision they make for themselves. Especially when it affects something so personal as their sexual pleasure and identity. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: my4beauties
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 7:08pm
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We haven't had our boys done, wasn't an issue. I think I asked Dh if he wanted Rico done, but he said no, so the subject never came up with Jett. Dh is, I think it was just ritual back then, and his parents weren't religious at all at that time ------------- My babies: R (9),G (7), J (5) http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 7:19pm
considering the foreskin isnt designed to go back till 3 or 4 i find that a bit weird! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 9:28pm
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The possibility has been raised that Kyle will need one, but our doc said you can't tell for sure until closer to age 5. He's had an infection, but luckily wasn't too serious. Hopefully he won't need to have it done.
As for getting it done for other reasons, it honestly was never even discussed in this house, but then DH isn't done, as far as I'm aware it has never been common practice in England and has only ever been done for medical reasons or for religious ones, but not the Christian faiths (as far as I am aware anyway). ------------- 
 
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 9:37pm
| Daniel has had 2 infections there but thats from him playing with it lol |
Posted By: MrsH
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 9:41pm
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A foreskin growing back? But surely.... oh nevermind.... ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Shelt
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 9:42pm
I'm just repeating what my sister heard from the specialist - I know nothing about it since I have a girl! Maybe since he is over 3 they can tell that its too tight and not going to be able to retract? ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Georgiegirl
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 9:48pm
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This is my new subject to learn about.... sheesh and there seems so much to learn!
My Mum suggested that I look into this issue before it became too emotional for DH and me. From reading all the above information, it seems like it predominately is a course of action to prevent reoccuring infections.....which leads me to think that it is possibly the healthiest option.... but I am not sure yet... I've still alot to read and think about. I keep hearing the God argument, ie God wouldn't have made the foreskin if he wanted us to cut it off.... My question is how many women who think this way shave their armpits or wax? Loving this thread.... it is a real guttsy topic and a hard one to discuss with people face to face.... http://www.limetwists.com/ticker/"> 
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Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 10:04pm
Was that a serious question? I wouldnt lump cutting hair in with cutting off a part of a penis  ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: Georgiegirl
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 10:21pm
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Lol LIlfatty,
Of course it was not a serious question... it would not lump them together at all. However it is still the same argument.... Serious or not. To argue that circumcision is wrong because god put foreskins there on purpose, is the same argument men could use against getting the snip, or women could use against hysterectomys, or even to argue against removing wisdom teeth that are prone to causing infections. hmmm please dont think my mind is made up...I am finding these debates really thought provoking. http://www.limetwists.com/ticker/">
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Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 04 September 2009 at 11:35pm
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Ive seen a few penises (not a lot but have known a fair few guys who get there gear off when drunk or competitive) and to be honest i dont really know if id know the difference they all look funny - maybe ive never seen one.
Didnt get Josh done and to be honest the convo never came about i really didnt think people still did that in NZ so didnt even think it was an option. I can understand medical reasons but not 'to look like the other boys' but more so because i didnt realise there were still boys getting it done. It is an interesting read this thread tho -------------   
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Posted By: RachFizz
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 1:37am
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We're not even TTC yet but this convo came up not too long ago. Im lucky in that my DH is un-circumcised so don't have to worry bout snippin it for them to be the same (if we have a boy).
He said he wouldn't want it done but not sure if it's so that they're the same or if he just doesn't see it as necessary? My lil bro didn't have it done either so i've always thought that i'd stick to what my family had done! I think i could handle seeing the bub in pain if it was necessary (after doin microbiology papers i believe vaccinations are absolutely necessary!!!) but, for me, circumcision's really not. As for the God argument, I'm a christian so I believe that circumcision is unimportant now, though it used to be law ? (still not that clued up with the old testament )
Nothing against ppl who get it done for their own reasons, just do ur research i guess and know that yeah it probly is circumcised males that stand out now- if that matters to you..------------- TTC#1 since Apr11 On hold for study! |
Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 1:46am
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We didnt get Caden done, I didnt want him to have to go through the awful pain of having it done, thats why my mum didnt get my youngest brother done.
I think its there for a reason, so it stays. ------------- |
Posted By: X
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 9:25am
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I think it is safe to say this is one of those issues that people feel very strongly about-one way or the other! I think you just have to do the research & then make a decision on what feels best for you.
We have a friend who had to have it done later in life (age 18) because his foreskin was too tight & he had very painful erections & he said it was AWFUL to have it done later. He said the healing was painful & there was the embarrassment factor & the fact that he was sexually out of action for ages. But then, I agree that not everyone has problems alter in life.... We are from South Africa & it is really common back there....I have never seen an uncircumcised willy (not that I've seen many willies!). I tried to argue with DH that our son would be the odd one out here, but DH felt he wanted him to look like his daddy more than look like his peers. He argued that really how often was our son going to be comparing willies with others. DH also brought up the decreased risk of contractiing HIV & STD's & also a decreased risk of circumcised men passing HPV to women (which leads to cervical cancer). He had done his research. We went back & forth & back & forth & then as I said in the end I just gave in. There are arguments for both sides of the story. I wanted to say that the surgeon who did our son's has retired, but there is a place in Blockhouse Bay where they do the plastibell method (which is definitely what I would recommend over the surgical method). If anyone wants their number I'm sure I could find it for you. Good luck-it's a tough choice! |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 11:45am
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As a parent I couldn't allow myself to cut any part of my child's body without good reason. Relgious ones don't wash with me, but then I'm pretty secular in my views. I don't get the 'he'll be different from other boys and be made to feel self consious' do boys and men really go around comparing their penises to see if they're cut or not!! surely if they're comfortable to be in a position of having their penis on display any self consiousness is a mute issue. I shave my legs and arm pits cause it looks and feels nice. and for my pits its less smelly ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 12:14pm
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......I often wonder what it would be like to have a penis ....does it , like , hit the side of their thighs when they walk , if they don't have underwear on ? hmmm....
------------- 
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Posted By: catisla
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 12:44pm
LOL - Do you mean the outside or the inside of the thighs? ------------- |
Posted By: catisla
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 12:49pm
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Just out of interest - i am also secular in my thinking - why do people think circumcision is ok for religious reasons, but not for other reasons? There are many things that used to be done (and in some parts of the world still are done) for religious reasons that most people in NZ would find repellent (eg. stoning of adulterers, female circumcision, allowing muslim men to starve their wives if they do not give conjugal rights). Is male circumcision likely to go the same way from a Western view point?
PS - i do not want to stir up a religious argument! I am all for freedom of religion and freedom for non-religion ------------- |
Posted By: X
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 1:13pm
How do you feel about pierced ears? No medical reason for those, pain is involved & there is a risk of infection..... Just playing devil's advocate here... |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 1:29pm
haha , I meant the inside, but if we're playing "woman's /man's fantasy " the outside too -------------
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Posted By: LJsmum
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 1:38pm
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great topic and we are discussing this again .... at the moment.
We had our son done about 2 or so years ago using the plastibell method must have been the same doctor that did your son odettenz, he was in remuera but has retired now. I wasn't that keen on it but DH is and was, so as he has the penis and knows more about them we had it done. I did a lot of reasearch before hand but back then there wasn't as much info on the net as there is now. At the time two others families in my coffee group where having their sons done too. Had lots of opportunities to discuss and debate. It's aslo a family tradition on both sides, meaning both sets of parents are keen for it to be done. Now we are expecting another son and the issue has come up again. Everything is fine with DS1 no problems, we made the right choice with the best interests. Dh wanted DS all our DS to look like him and plus he thinks it's cleaner, bettter. E.t.c Now i think boys and men don't compare their junk do they? So the whole to look the same doesn't wash as do two ever look the same anyway! So i'm saying nope not necessary, plus it's fazing out now as the years go on.... -------------  
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Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 1:49pm
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I wasn't able to get Jakes done early on and I'm really disappointed. We were looking around for someone to do it before we got preggers and I'm just starting to look again. If we have another boy he'll be getting done too.
I think its cleaner and it doesn't hurt them if its done right and of course everyone else in the family is done
I got really pissed off when I was enquiring about it and the people I was asking would give me really rude responses and feel like they had the right to grill me over my reasons and talk down to me about how it wasn't necessary. Other than personal preference theres actually no good reason for people having a problem with it. The general medical consensus is that male circumcision means less issues down there on average than uncircumcised anyway so I don't know why theres a debate. Either way theres no major issues. -------------   
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Posted By: X
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 2:12pm
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Milo1 we also used the guy in Remuera-he was such a nice man. It's a pity he's not doing it anymore. Apparently there's a doctor in Blockhouse Bay who does it using the plastibell too.
Babe-I agree with you completely. I think that it's a choice you make for your child, & you make it with their best interests at heart. It's not like we're just butchering them without thinking. We've done lots of research & it does annoy me when people act like you are a bad parent for doing it. On the other hand I can totally understand why some parents don't want to have it done & I respect them for their reasons. Hell, if DH hadn't insisted on it I wouldn't have done it either (just like Milo1). But DS hasn't had any ill-effects from it & at least now I don't have to worry about teaching him to keep it clean, worrying about UTIs etc. It's such a personal decision. I think we all just have to recpect eachother for making the decision (whether it is for or against). I think we've all actually been very good in this little discussion...no-one has gotten heated or insulting or anything. We all deserve a little pat on the back. Yay us! |
Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 2:12pm
There actually was a discussion on ear piercing not long ago, and most Mums would not have this done until the child was old enough to decide for themselves, because yes it hurts! Also an ear piercing can close over, once you cut off a part of the penis its a tad harder to get it back again
What I don't understand is the argument that it hurts more to cut off a hunk of penis when its an adult penis .. is the anesthetic different because from what I gather from the stories from people who have did it their child felt nothing, so how can it hurt a man but not a baby. Does it have something to do with the fact an adult can convey that it hurts and a baby can not? ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 2:15pm
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foreskins are there for a reason... and men with circumcised penises have less feeling in them...( i dont agree with it being done for religious reasons any more than i do any other reason. i think its a rather convenient cop out!) ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: X
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 2:17pm
| Lilfatty I think it's that the recovery is much worse for an adult man. Babies heal really well & really quickly vs grown ups. Plus the willy is cushioned by the nappy & they move around less (they're not walking around with their willy chafing against their pants). |
Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 2:27pm
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Yeah and the nerves aren't as uhm sorted down there for babies as they are for men. Sorry lol can't think of how to say it properly!! -------------
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Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 3:50pm
I originally wrote that I don't have an issue if it's for religious reasons. I don't know the Jewish faith well and don't know why it was important (I think it was a sign of obedience). However, after thinking about it, I would never support FGM for religious reasons so figure I'm being hypocritical if I support MGM for religious reasons. I did read an article about regrowing the foreskin (it was in Canvas last year). One guy talked about putting a film canister (you know those black tubes film came in) over his penis and stretching the miniscule foreskin over the canister. Gradually it grew back. The mental images were just . So what's that in your pants or are you just happy to see me? ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 4:01pm
| Removing the foreskin decreases sensation. DH reckons hes had way way way way more sensation since growing his back. He had started that before I met him. I must admit I found it totally weird and bizzare that he would do such a thing lol. Hadn't heard of the film canister thing! DH used some special type of O rings lol. |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 4:51pm
The same, I paid to get my own ears pierced with money I'd earn't my mum never had pierced ears herself and wasn't much of a jewelery fan. Same with my belly and tongue piercings I got them done myself. Unless something is life threatening, I do see what right I have to 'touch' (not sure thats the right word) my childs body in that way. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 4:56pm
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I don't get the argument that its cleaner either, as the foreskin is there to deter dirt and grit getting into the urethra and causing infection. Its not just for sensation but also for protection.
------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 5:25pm
| The cleanliness comes down to the guy, sure if hes lazy and never cleans himself properly then it probably is cleaner without it but thats a poor reason, IMO |
Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 6:54pm
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:shrug: I don't see how people can judge whats a 'poor reason' or not in a situation. This is something that comes down to what each parent feels is important so obviously its a pretty wide judgment to make when people and their beliefs, etc are so varied.
Suggesting that using a religious reason is a cop-out is also something I find borderline offensive. What in the heck is a cop-out about it?? Ok you may not agree with circumcision but, being a person who does circumcise partially due to religious reasons, I am insulted that you would even go there. Have you who choose to not circumcise considered that I, being pro-circumcision, might think you are making less than a good choice for your boys? Would you take it well if I said the argument to not circumcise is because you're lazy? Or because you are less hygienic? Feel free to share your opinions on whether or not you agree but is it necessary to share why you think people with differing opinions are wrong?! -------------
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Posted By: catisla
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 7:09pm
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Babe - I am not the person who said it was a 'cop out' but what the poster could mean by that is that by circumsising for religous reasons you may be doing it simply because your religion tells you to, without thinking through the full ramifications.
I am not for one minute suggesting that this describes anyone on here who has circumsised for religous reasons - just trying to describe a possible view point
Personally, as an atheist, i believe that children should be free to choose their own religion (or not) when they are old enough to understand what it is all about - i do not agree that children should automatically be assumed to be the religion of their parent. This is the reason why i will not baptise/christen my children, but equally not stand in their way if they want to be baptised/christened when they are old enough to make an informed decision. Please all note, the above is not intended to cause rows or offend anybody - just my (very) humble opinion and i realise it is one of very many valid opinions sorry - gone a bit off-topic ------------- |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 7:26pm
thanks susie - thats exactly what i meant but i got distracted while i was typing it (the kids were causing havoc) and i wasnt even sure that i had even posted it or not! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 7:32pm
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i must say tho i dont know what the religious reasoning behind circumcision is... cant even begin to grasp why even!? ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 8:21pm
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Was that your post Bizzy? I wasn't having a go at you I had forgotten who posted it I guess this is why these topics can get heated - not always easy to think of the ways a post could be meant when the first reaction is personal IYKWIM. There are alot of practical reasons behind my faith encouraging circumcision and I feel that those reasons are still valid today. There are proven health benefits to circumcision, it just happens to be not so socially popular here in NZ at the moment. Alot of things that aren't 'comfortable' are now socially uncool such as spanking/corporal punishment, self-control, etc but that doesn't mean theres anything wrong with those practices (inc circumcision). Anyway thats heading off topic
I totally understand where you are coming from as an atheist Susiec. Since I firmly and absolutely believe in my faith it makes the most sense to me to bring my children up believing it as well so same theory really except since you don't believe in anything it makes the most sense to bring your children up the same. Not much point in having a faith (or specifically not in some cases ) if its not so much a part of you that you automatically instill that faith or non-faith in your offspring. -------------
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Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 8:27pm
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And just a comment on FGM v circumcision - FGM does not have any practical application nor is it symbolic of anything holy. It was created by man as a form of control and religion was used to push its acceptability rather like Islam and the killing of the infidels.
Circumcision, like I said in my previous post, has widely accepted and scientifically proven practical benefits (especially considering the times the practice originated) and it is symbolic in the Jewish/Christian religion of the circumcision of the heart which is a spiritual thing. -------------
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Posted By: tropics
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 8:37pm
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I havent read the 4 pages of posts, but my friends in oz who have boys around the same age as Jayden asked me if I was going to get Jayden circumcised and it hadnt even crossed my mind as it had never been brought up, but apparently across the ditch its the "done" and "in" thing! its the minority (that im lead to belive) over there that isnt done. ------------- http://lilypie.com">    [/url]
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Posted By: Twinboys2b
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 9:25pm
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Golly gosh, where did this get too? Tetchy tetchy - put your hand up if it's that time of the month!!! lol anyway...
No one is ever going to get anywhere discussing religious beliefs, you do what's right for you. I'm no preacher & neither should anyone else be. The only thing worth discussing (In my humble opinion) is the health benefits... the more research that is carried out the more knowledgeable people can be in making an informed decision. No longer does society just go along with what's the 'norm' which is great & that's down to people being gaining knowledge from independent research done into these things (although I know a lot of research isn't 'independant' as such). Such as back in the day formula feeding was the society's norm for a while, mainly due to marketing from bus. corporates. However, as more & more research was/is done - society has become knowledgeable that if your healthy well & able then breast is best. And… before someone jumps down my throat no I am not comparing BF/FF with circumcision just using that as an example to explain the text above it. So I just realised I haven't really added anything to the discusision but there is heaps of crap on here anyway ha. ------------- 3yr old gorgeous ID twin boys. |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 9:33pm
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yep babe that was my post... didnt feel got at - and hope i didnt offend anyone. ( i realise it wasnt well worded tho!)
well have just been doing some reading and OMG ! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: MrsMojo
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 9:50pm
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My religion is exactly why my husband won't be getting the snip and I won't be having a hysterectomy. The only time that's ok is for health reasons. Luckily the catechism doesn't have an opinion on shaving, apparently hair growth is just not a hot religious topic DH and I discussed circumcision long before our son was a twinkle in our eyes. DH wanted it done because he is and I said NO (conversation was slightly longer but that's the gist of it). End of story, subject was never raised again. I think the "so he'll look like me" excuse is ridiculous. I do understand if people are doing it for health reasons but not as a pre-emptive measure. That makes about as much sense to me as pulling out all your teeth to ensure you don't get tooth decay. -------------  
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.Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 05 September 2009 at 10:00pm
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You know what the ironic thing is ... despite my posts swinging between "it's OK if it's your faith" and "no it's not OK" ... it's actually not something I'm that bothered about And the reason I raised the FGM thing, is that it's something that men post-circumcision have raised (I wouldn't have thought of that on my own), and I totally hear that there is a difference in that FGM causes ongoing health issues, severe pain, difficulties with childbirth etc. I didn't mean to offend, but when I heard that discussion in the media, I found it quite challenging for my beliefs/views.
As with most parenting things (barring the abusive, unsafe and downright harmful), generally I trust that the parents are doing the best for their kids and don't intend to do them harm so therefore do I really need to have a strong opinion on it (and shout the opinion from the treetops). Ah yes, I will continue to sit on the fence
And I've found it quite an interesting discussion without too many fistfights - I enjoy hearing people's rationales for their views (I often have a view but struggle to give a rationale) so thanks  ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 06 September 2009 at 10:02am
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I wasn't offended over the FGM thing I just thought I'd clarify what the difference is and attempt to give a quick explanation of the background of circumcision thats all.
I personally don't see why there is even a debate (not on OB I mean in general). Its just one of the many different decisions we as parents have to make. There aren't many if any parenting decisions in the western world that cause huge physical issues for our childrens future (not including abuse). There are always going to be things parents don't agree on but thats really where it ends. Its not a huge moral dilemma... -------------
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Posted By: LJsmum
Date Posted: 06 September 2009 at 10:33am
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i agree it's not a huge moral dilemma... it's a choice.
I have read with interest everyone's opinions and have come to the conclusion having one son that is done and we will have one that isn't , (if I win! Dh is keen, but for the sake of our marriage he's backed off.!) that's it's not a big concern some boys have skin there and other's don't. I don't think DS1 or DS2 is going to be upset that one is and one isn't everybodies different anyway. Everyone's entiltied to their opinion and either pro and against it is just like any other paretning issue what ever we beleive we always have the child's best interests at heart. -------------
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Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 06 September 2009 at 1:49pm
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what is FGM? Is it female circumcision? -------------
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Posted By: catisla
Date Posted: 06 September 2009 at 4:10pm
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better known as Female Genital Mutilation ------------- |
Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 06 September 2009 at 9:48pm
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i thought thats what it stood for - in some countries/tribes they believe you cant have children until you (females) have been circumcised all those poor women go through that pain because someone made that up. -------------
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Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 07 September 2009 at 10:44am
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in short there is a lot of medical proof that (except in occassional circumsatances) it is not more hygenic to be circumsised..
Even though i dont agree with it I talked to a lot of doctors and did a lot of research so I could be well armed when DH tried to talk about it to me:) as lots have people have said it's just another of those millions of decisions we have to make on behalf of our little ones.. ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: Georgiegirl
Date Posted: 07 September 2009 at 2:50pm
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Wow... what in incredibly lively debate.
I have read all the comments and notice that people keep bringing up religion. Has anyone had this procedure done to their little boy for religious reasons? Or was it for health reasons? From the comments I have read, the FOR arguement doesn't contain much religious conponent...however the AGAINST does? Strange.... are we listening to each other? I have had a brief discussion with DH and I think that we generally more natural people v's intervention orientated. It was me playing devils advocate with the shaving comment...LOL purely to show that if the arguement "God put it there it should stay" applies to both situations. I've found this to be a really interesting debate.... but I don't think this is a right or wrong issue..... it is a personal choice. http://www.limetwists.com/ticker/">
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Posted By: lilfatty
Date Posted: 07 September 2009 at 2:54pm
Although in fairness hair malts and falls out, I dont think random parts of the penis do
ETA - Do you know you can put your ticker code in your profile so you dont have to add it to every post? ------------- Mummy to Issy (3) and Elias (18 months) I did it .. 41 kgs gone! From flab to fab in under a year http://www.femininefitness.co.nz/category/blog - LFs weight blog
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Posted By: Georgiegirl
Date Posted: 07 September 2009 at 5:23pm
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Really ??? thanks LIlfatty... that would be much easier!
Ta |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 07 September 2009 at 11:17pm
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*sings * Hey there Georgie Girl ...
...sorry , I couldn't resist, im such a DICK ! -------------
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Posted By: Georgiegirl
Date Posted: 08 September 2009 at 8:01am
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LOL good call caitlynsmygirl...
My Mum used to sing me that song when I was little... and I've been nicknamed Georgie ever since! ------------- http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/279456"> 
TTC#2 8th round of clomid 100mg 1 failed IUI. Waiting for IVF now. |
Posted By: Ant
Date Posted: 08 September 2009 at 9:20am
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I'm curious - a goodly number of people have said their DH's want it done or not done so their boys look the same as them.
Is this really a big issue? Is being cut or not such a huge part of their identity as males? I just can't imagine, if a son of ours had to have it done, that DH would be worried they don't look the same. I don't look the same as my mum. We are different sizes, I have no idea what her breasts look like (I'm sure I've seen them but who remembers these things), and I have a vague memory of us having very differently coloured pubic hair. I've never really given a thought to whether or not my genitals look like my mum's. DH mentioned once growing up seeing his Dad's penis and noting it was very large - something about knowing his would likely never be as big. But they are just not the same build, so it makes sense these things would be proportional. They would never look remotely alike in that department, more than the basic alikeness every man has. For those who've had this discussion with their DH - why was it so important they look the same? Is it some kind of male bonding thing? Some shared experience - like having the same birthmark? ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 08 September 2009 at 10:04am
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Michhell, I found that strange as well, I can't imagine it being something my Dh would be concerned about. But honestly it's not even something we have discussed, it was never a consideration. Kyle may need to be done for medical reasons (his foreskin is tight, but hopefully it will resolve as he grows) and DH's reaction was "rather him than me" lol.
I personally don't think hygiene, or doing it just in case they need it done as an adult is a valid reason. I also don't think religious reasons are valid for removing a part of the body (male or female). But then again I'm an atheist so I suppose I would think that -------------
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Posted By: AzzaNZ
Date Posted: 08 September 2009 at 10:06am
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Wow, a 5-pager! Thats impressive!
If my children want body modifications then they can do them when they are old enough to decide themselves. That goes for circumcision, ear-piercing etc. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
http://intermittentblogger.wordpress.com |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 08 September 2009 at 11:12am
lol I asked exactly the same thing and he just said he thought his son would think it was strange they look different..no real reason:) ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: AzzaNZ
Date Posted: 08 September 2009 at 11:16am
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But a little boys penis will never look like an adults penis.
In fact I dont think any two adults penises will look the same either. Gosh, can you imagine if we wanted our vaginas to look like our mum's vaginas? ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
http://intermittentblogger.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Ant
Date Posted: 08 September 2009 at 11:31am
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I'm seeing this conversation now...
DH: So, it's really important to me that our son's penis looks like mine. Me: Babe - describe your dad's penis for me. Seriously. What shape is it. Does it bend? Any moles or marks? How much does it look like yours? No idea? Well, it appears it doesn't really matter then does it. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: KitKat
Date Posted: 08 September 2009 at 1:58pm
LOL!!!!!! DP winced and crossed his legs when I brought the subject up- not that we are remotely thinkng bout it- I was telling him about this thread. I know of people who have had probs w the foreskin not retracting- so it needs removing to avoid infections etc- by I dont see the valid reasoning otherwise. I actually think its very unfair on the poor child. (among other strong feelings I have against it) IMO Would you chop their ears off if dad or mum had none? Or the bible said so? Or it looked more aesthetic? Its a very personal decision.... -------------
http://www.littlegreenfruit.blogspot.com - Little Green Fruit |
Posted By: flakesitchyfeet
Date Posted: 08 September 2009 at 3:35pm
In the risk of starting another page, I've always wanted to spend a day as I guy...I wonder how far up a fence I could pee!! -------------  http://lilypie.com"> |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 08 September 2009 at 7:44pm
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I know !!! and at the risk of being even worse, I wonder what it would be like to "jerk off "
runs away to join the immature club -------------
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08 September 2009 at 8:10pm
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lol caitlynsmygirl me too , its not immaturity, its curiosity !!
Its really interesting to see how far this has gone and to read the debates and opinions. I honestly didn't know much about this before and can say know I am very informed. |
Posted By: Georgiegirl
Date Posted: 09 September 2009 at 8:12am
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I was talking to DH about this last night again..... he was not done..... and we agreed not to do it. unless it is suggested for health reasons... although we are both open to the little op if it is medically suggested...
I guess for guys it is hard to be unbiased on this issue.... ------------- http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/279456">
TTC#2 8th round of clomid 100mg 1 failed IUI. Waiting for IVF now. |