Fatal dangers of cold sores to newborns
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Topic: Fatal dangers of cold sores to newborns
Posted By: ?Lolly?
Subject: Fatal dangers of cold sores to newborns
Date Posted: 16 January 2010 at 5:19am
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Have also posted this in the http://www.ohbaby.co.nz/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30986&PN=1&TPN=1 - Pregnancy forum
I have just been up with one of my girls and came across this group on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&gid=20099106759 - Warning pregnant mothers about the fatal dangers of cold sores to newborns and it's been bugging me every since. I had never heard of this condition before. I just felt a strong urge to come post on here 'just in case'. What happened to Charlotte's precious little girl is heart wrenching and I would hate for that to happen to another baby. This is her story *Warning tear jerker* Our baby daughter Mira died on 28th November 2007 from herpes simplex virus 1 - the common cold sore virus. She was just 10 days old. It is so so rare here in the UK - only 6 babies a year die from this and it is so easily preventable. I had never had a cold sore before Mira was born, but shortly after her birth I was so exhausted and run down with a throat infection that I developed a tiny cold sore on my bottom lip when she was 3 days old. It disappeared almost overnight and I didn't think anything more of it. Mira was a beautiful, perfect, healthy baby - but when she was 8 days old she became a bit restless and difficult to feed. We took her to the GP twice, and she was also seen by a midwife and an on-call doctor in the two days before she died. Her symptoms were so non-descript that nobody knew what was making her so poorly. She had a low temperature, her eye was a bit sticky, and she wasn't interested in feeding. She was just so peaceful and sleepy all the time. She had no marks, blemishes or lesions on her, definitely nothing that would have made anyone think that she was being attacked by the cold sore virus - it was just quietly working its way through her little body with no outwardly noticeable signs. She took a turn for the worse in the evening of 27th November, and we rushed her to hospital, where she stopped breathing. The doctors tried to save her, but by then the virus had overwhelmed her tiny body and they had no idea what had made her so ill. She grew her angel wings at 4.20am on November 28th, 2007 - just 10 short days after she'd made such a long-awaited entrance into the world. The post mortem results came back as herpes simplex virus 1 - the cold sore virus. Up to 85 per cent of adults have this virus, and it's harmless in adults. As it was my first ever cold sore, I had no antibodies to pass on to Mira, so her tiny body was unprotected. It was just incredibly bad luck that my first ever infection coincided with the birth, and I unknowingly transmitted the virus to Mira in the first few days of her life. I read so much when I was pregnant, but had never seen anything at all about the dangers of this type of simple condition. This is why we want to raise awareness and increase public knowledge. It's too late for Mira, but I just want nobody else to go through the devastation that we went through at losing our beautiful 10 day old daughter, and the pain that we'll carry around in our shattered hearts forever. Please, just help us by passing this information on to anyone you know who it may help - pregnant women, family members of newborn babies, health professionals (we were surprised at how little was known about this even by some of the top medical experts we have been in contact with since losing Mira). 
Sorry for the depressing post, I just really felt like I needed to pass this message along. Em  ------------- Captain Chaos (5) & the Trouble Monsters (2!) 
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Replies:
Posted By: palomino
Date Posted: 16 January 2010 at 7:08am
| scary stuff! |
Posted By: monkey33
Date Posted: 16 January 2010 at 10:23am
So sad  ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Muz
Date Posted: 16 January 2010 at 6:32pm
That is awful  ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 16 January 2010 at 7:06pm
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I hate to say it...but is it true or one of those hoaxes? I ask because almost EVERYONE has antibodies to the cold sore virus. If it is true, I wouldnt be too concerned because it would have to be INCREDIBLY rare to happen. And it might not have been the herpes simplex virus that is to blame. Any virus may have had that result in a young baby which is why we take sick newborns so seriously.
If it is true then it is incredibly sad...but I think it is also incredibly bad luck and not something to stress about. IYGWIM |
Posted By: ?Lolly?
Date Posted: 16 January 2010 at 10:17pm
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Pretty sure it's true. About 6 babies in the UK die from this a year. Check out the face book group. ------------- Captain Chaos (5) & the Trouble Monsters (2!)
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Posted By: ndoc35
Date Posted: 17 January 2010 at 6:03am
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Im new to this forum and am only joining long enough to put you right on this subject. the girl you are talking about is my dear friend Charlotte and she is not a fake or hoax. Mira did die due to the coldsore virus and no not every newborn baby has antibodies. Your baby only has antibodies if you have had coldsores before but sadly Charlotte didnt and developed her first coldsore after Mira was born. Im not on here to bitch or shout but just to let you know that it is a very fatal virus to babies who's mums have never had coldsores, I have got to know charlotte through SANDS, stillbirth and neonatal death society as my baby girl died too, not from the same thing. I know its a very rare virus and yes only a handful of babies die from it each year but it does happen. Please take some time to read over Charlottes group on facebook, she has raised alot of awareness through media, tv and magazines to try and help prevent others living the horrendous life that she is living now.
Please be abit more sensitive as to who you call a fake as it cuts deep
Thank you for the person who posted originally about this for talking about it to others. |
Posted By: Raspberryjam
Date Posted: 17 January 2010 at 11:19am
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My heart goes out to anyone who has lost a child, we came pretty close and Its incomprehensible really.
ndoc35 
I have put this in the other thread too, this awful situation in preventable, so we can learn from this lovely Mums horror story Just FYI for those pf you who do suffer FDA pregnancy category B. This medication is not expected to be harmful to an unborn baby. Tell your doctor if you are pregnant or plan to become pregnant during treatment. Herpes virus can be passed from an infected mother to her baby during childbirth. If you have genital herpes, it is very important to prevent herpes lesions during your pregnancy so that you do not have a genital lesion when your baby is born. Zovirax passes into breast milk and may harm a nursing infant. Do not take this medication without telling your doctor if you are breast-feeding a baby. More info specifically can be found her for breastfeeding etc http://www.drugs.com/pregnancy/acyclovir.html After a few years in pharmacy It is my understanding that the medicine for genital herpes is more concern than the cream you apply to your lips, but as with all meds during pregnancy have a chat with your doctor first. I think the important thing to remember is the pros vs the cons of using a drug during pregnancy and your doc will weight these up before prescribing. ------------- http://lilypie.com] 
http://lilypie.com] 
http://lilypie.com] 
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Posted By: JodyR
Date Posted: 17 January 2010 at 11:08pm
I happen to know Charlotte very well and can vouch for her as a genuine and honest person who has tragically lost her daughter Mira in exactly the way described. Yes what happened to Charlotte and Mira is rare but it can and does happen to people she is trying to raise awareness. Not only has she started groups like this but she has appeared on a national UK television programme to discuss what happened to them. That takes incredible courage and strength to do, I can tell you from personal experience that when your baby dies there are days when it is almost impossible to talk to family and friends without breaking down, let alone go on television in front of millions of strangers. Charlotte did that to help raise awareness because I can tell you the one thing that all parents who lose a child feel is that it should never, ever happen to another family. I appreciate the need to be careful about fakes but it is also just as important to have evidence or very good reasons to be suspicious before you start asking on an open forum if someone is real or a hoaxer. |
nzpiper wrote:Posted By: littlepips
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 9:44am
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I just wanted to add that I also know Charlotte, her strengh in campaining to raise awareness to benefit other parent follow this loss of her beautiful daughter has been very inspiring. Also no doubt heartbeaking because all the while Charlotte and her husband do this they continue to deal with their grief.
Despite the hoax comment seeming to it's writer like a simple expression of opinion, it has also been made without much consideration, it has made it's way back to Mira's wonderful mummy and has been a bitter blow. I know strangely there are people out there who for some reason fake their situation. This couldn't be anymore painful to a mother who genuinely has lost their little one. So please respond with a little more consideration, this thread was not to create hype but to create awareness in the hope that this information may never be needed but it is there should it ever be. |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 9:52am
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littlepips, jodyr, ndoc35 it is customary to write an introductory post before jumping in, we have a thread just for this purpose. I understand your intentions but it is coming across as a tad rude. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:02am
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I think it is completely understandable to question such things on an internet forum as there are so often hoaxes (on the internet in general)... I don't imagine there was any intention to upset the grieving parents... ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:23am
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If your going to post something on the internet expect people to question it!! There are millions of hoaxes on the internet everyday and im sorry but everyone has a right to question what they read. You cant expect a group of friends on a forum you dont normally belong to expect your friend to take offence to a genuine question when the same question is probably being asked by a lot of other people that arent in your country and seen the story on the news or in papers.
I think you need to show more respect to our forum -------------   
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Posted By: ?Lolly?
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:40am
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I have actually emailed Charlotte and told her that our online community is very close and that no offence was intended by any comments made. I linked to this thread on her group as I felt she had a right to know I had posted her story.
I know your all good people and I loves you all ------------- Captain Chaos (5) & the Trouble Monsters (2!)
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Posted By: littlepips
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 11:03am
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I simply wanted to express the need to consider before making a statement, not to attack,, not to offend the forum. As far as I see as freely as you may question hoaxes I may step in to create an awareness that that information reaches others and causes further pain. Is that rude, I think not.
I realise there is a need to question, so google, search, educate yourself but be aware of how you question. Clearly you are a close forum and feel defensive on this issue, it isn't about you, or me, it is about stepping out of the bubble and being aware. I make no appologies for simple wanting to express that and have no further need to use your forum. Blessings to you all. |
Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 11:23am
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Gosh, I didnt expect such a reaction to my innocent question. As others have said, I meant no offence to anyone. I just questioned it because there have been similar posts in the past and everyone gets very upset and emotional about them (as we all do when babies are involved) only to find out later on that it is a hoax....there are just too many around.
I just wanted to know if anyone knew if it really was true or not...as simple as that. All that was required was a simple reply from someone saying "Sadly, this isnt a hoax", which Emiloly pretty much did 
We seem to have reached a point in society where everything can be interpreted in such a way as to offend people. Edited to try and make it read better. |
Posted By: ?Lolly?
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 11:51am
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IT's ok Nikki, I understand where your coming from. I am still frankly surprised that so little is known about this subject. And considering it's devastating outcome why more health professionals don't warn people as a matter of course. ------------- Captain Chaos (5) & the Trouble Monsters (2!)
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Posted By: JodyR
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 12:00pm
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Bizzy - sorry if we have breached the protocol of the site by not introducing ourselves first, seeing Charlotte upset has obviously touched the same nerve in her friends that we have touched here by stepping so suddenly into your community to defend her. Obviously we would prefer to make friends here rather than enemies. I'll look for the thread now and introduce myself there properly, thank you for making us aware of it.
Freckle - you are quite right in what you say, it is normal to question what you read on the internet before taking it as fact. Charlotte and I belong to the same bereavement forum, as do littlepips and Ndoc35, and we have had more than our fair share of people who have made up the loss of a baby and caused indescribable hurt. I am sure Charlotte would have been happy to provide information to set anyones mind at rest if she had been asked on the facebook group but it was seeing her story questioned so publically that hurt her feelings, especially as doubt was cast on the cause of her daughters death too. I'm also sure the comment wasn't meant to get back to Charlotte and hurt her but it did and what we as her friends have tried to do was explain that she sadly is very genuine. WRXandJosh - I've replied to you on the other thread too, sorry if you feel we have disrespected your forum, that was not our intention and no we didn't expect you to have seen Charlotte on TV but the person who questioned her doesn't seem to have even fully read Mira's story in the inital post or made any attempt to check it herself before raising concerns about a hoax. And she even questioned the post mortem results given by a medical professional which wasn't necessary. nzpiper - I can appreciate that you wanted to protect your friends from another hoax in the same way we want to protect Charlotte from being so hurt. But I can't understand why you questioned the post mortem results, there was no good reason I can see for that. Yes things do get taken the wrong way on the internet, it's very difficult to know what people intend when you can only see the written word. Charlotte and those of her friends who have replied can see why you would want to protect your friends here but I'm sure you can also see why it hurt Charlotte to see herself suggested as a fake. The one thing I am sure of is that Charlotte would not want these threads to turn into an argument that takes away from the real issue - that her daughter has died from something so simple as the cold sore virus and that she wants with all her heart to prevent that happening to another baby and save another mother from walking in her shoes. |
Posted By: blondy
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 12:04pm
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I think the fact that it is so rare for it to happen is why the general public education is lacking. As mentioned previously, it is a known risk for mothers/babies with HSV-2 (genital herpes), and actions are taken to avoid infection of the newborn. 85% of us already are infected with the HSV-1 virus (as opposed to about 25% with HSV-2), and the vast majority of primary infections occur during the first 5 years of life. I believe it was terribly terribly bad luck for Charlotte to have had a primary infection just after her baby was born, and therefore pass the virus along to her baby, who didn't have the protection of antibodies. Even 2 weeks after a primary infection allows time for you to develop antibodies against the virus, and subsequently pass them along. The chances of something like this happening are very low, and I'm guessing why MWs and doctors don't fore-warn people (and in the majority of cases it would just create unwarranted worry). -------------  
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Posted By: Rachael21
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 12:18pm
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Wow that was a bit crazy I thought nzpiper had a pretty fair question. I personally wondered how true it was purely for the fact that I have never heard about anything like that at all. We have had a few people on here making up stories so sometimes it pays to ask before believing every little thing.
It is extremely sad that a little baby died but if you put yourself out in the public eye you have to be prepared for people to question it. Anyway isn't this a good thing anyway quite a few of us have learnt about the herpes virus so Charlotte has succeeded in warning people. |
Posted By: littlepips
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 12:42pm
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I just wished to add that I do appologise for jumping so sharply into your website without introduction.
It is good to see caring mums continue to create awareness, as that kind of awareness could so easily have prevented Mira's loss. The link to the site was created to make Charlotte aware that this was being discussed. Can you begin to imagine how hurt she must feel to have followed that link to read the above comment about a hoax. I know it was completely unintentional and perhaps would have been avoided if forum users were aware Charlotte would see this. I realise that this forum is centred on caring parents who obviously have experienced stories that have stirred worry and turned out to be a hoax, it is such an awful feeling I know being a concerned mother myself. From the perspective of a mother who has had to say goodbye to my own daughter, all you can do is protect their memory, their meaning and your love for them. Comments made so causally by others sometimes hurt like hell and only others who have share this experience truely understand, which is why we have all reacted so protectively. I am sorry I jumped so quickly. What is important is that good awarness continues and that perhaps this discussion despite ruffling feathers has taught us all a little something. I feel it has done me. Thank you for your time. x |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 1:12pm
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Seriously, if I read anything that involves pulling at my heartstrings, my first thought is 'is this a hoax'? That's the internet for you - seriously, 19 out of 20 emails / forwards of that kind are all made up.
This one doesn't seem to be - that didn't stop that being my first thought, and I reckon that's an OK first thought to have. Anyone who puts a story like that out there surely expects people to question it (and hopefully do a bit of research and find out that it's true). It's a tragic, tragic case, and my heart goes out to Mira’s Mum and Dad. I’m glad they’re trying to educate people about this. I don’t think it’s any insult to them if people question their story, given the internet these days, it’s just one of those things. People are still going to take it seriously once they’ve checked it out. -------------   
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Posted By: JodyR
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 1:28pm
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Again I agree with you all, it is sensible to not instantly believe everything you read on the internet because sadly there are people out there who are not what they claim to be.
But again, what hurt Charlotte was the fact that nobody did do any research or approach her to find out if she was genuine. And the same person who questioned her validity also disregarded the cause of Mira's death which was confirmed at her postmortem as clearly being because of the herpes simplex virus. She doesn't expect to be believed 100% by everybody but it still hurts to see yourself questioned like that and not even directly to you but to others. She's not so naive that she instantly expects people who don't know her to take her at face value but like you said, a little research before you say anything about fakes is very easy. I just googled 'baby deaths herpes simplex cold sore' and Mira is mentioned in the second item to come up, the first confirmed that babies can die of the virus. It was that easy to check. And a couple of her friends stepped forward on here to speak up for her, to say that we know her and she is genuine and also that her feelings were hurt. Maybe we shouldn't have, maybe we were a bit too outspoken in defending her but that's all it would have taken, two minutes on google or a message to Charlotte's group on facebook. |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 1:38pm
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I think you guys have been a bit outspoken (sorry, is that outspoken on my part? ). At the same time, I understand. Losing a baby would be more than heartbreaking, and if it was my friend, I'd probably want to jump on anything that might cause her any pain myself. -------------
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Posted By: LittleBug
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:04pm
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I just want to know... if you get your first coldsore when you have a newborn baby in the house, is there anything you can do about it? Is there any benefit to knowing that it's your first coldsore? I mean, if you pick up a coldsore because you are tired/run-down etc. there isn't really a lot you can do about it, so it's very unfortunate... but with raising awareness about the situation - is there anything that can be done about it?
What a horrible situation. ------------- Chloe (4 years) and Oliver (3 years). |
Posted By: LittleBug
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:04pm
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edited: double post ------------- Chloe (4 years) and Oliver (3 years). |
Posted By: ?Lolly?
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:15pm
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At first I felt kinda guilty for sort of feeling responsipble for starting an argument. But then I stopped second guessing myself (I'm good at that, I always have to question everything I do) and remembered why I posted Charlotte's story in the first place. This might be rare but it happens. And I couldn't sleep after reading it, worrying that it might happen again, and that I could perhaps do my part in raising awareness.
I'd really like to ask people to take a deep breath, relax and remember we are all Mothers. And even though not all of us can truly understand what it must be like to loose a child, I certainly have to deal with a sh*t load of anxiety about the world in genera and all the 'bad things' that could/might happen to my babies on a daily basis. I only reposted to raise awareness, and let a grieving Mother know that her little girl's short life was not in vain. I really truly feel bad, I feel bad for Charlotte, I feel bad for her friends, and for you guys too. And I hate that feeling. So please be friends and drop all the negativity. ... Please Misunderstandings are so easy to happen in written context. I remember reading that you miss like 60 or 70% (at a guess) because that's how much comes from body language etc. LittleBug, I think don't let the infection spread to baby. Wash hands a lot, don't kiss baby etc. I read that it can be spread through direct contact or on your hands, or things you have touched to the sore. ie. Can't be passed through breast milk. ETA: Umm, i am not very paraphrasing, best to do a google I think. ------------- Captain Chaos (5) & the Trouble Monsters (2!)
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:18pm
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I would think that if you are like me and have never had the virus then if you are to get one just after having a baby (and i would need to be exposed because when you don't have the virus being just run down doesn't give you a coldsore, you need to be carrying the virus in the first place), you could be super extra vigilant and safe until your body has had time to create antibodies that can be passed to your baby via breastmilk.
It's definitely something I will be aware off (if we ever have another baby) as neither me nor DH has had a coldsore before and had either of us got one when the boys were newborns I wouldn't have even given it a thought, I might have not kissed them etc but I doubt I would have done anything more than that to stop them from getting it. ------------- 
 
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Posted By: fattartsrock
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:19pm
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Don't feel guily, Emiloly!
I think the "issue" - indeed if there is one - is that we as a forum have been "taken in" before, by a Mum pretending to have had stillborn twins, and by another "mum of twins" and both had "friends" coming in who "knew them" and backed up their back stories etc so we tend to be wary of newbies a wee bit, - especially with a sad story and no introduction. I am in NO WAY accusing you newbies of doing this AT ALL, I have just seen something on the xtra news site (or something similar I am sure) about this I'm not doubting the story, just saying why there is a little bit of hesitancy within this online community... ------------- The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P |
Posted By: IVFGirl1111
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:20pm
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I have had coldsores all my life - even had my first one at 6 months old.
I have seen several doctors, specialists etc over the years about my coldsores - as sometimes I can even get 5+ at a time. They have all told me that you are either born with the virus or your not, you always have the virus in you even though you cant actually see a coldsore if that makes sense. So DH can use anything of mine and he wont get a coldsore as he doesnt carry the virus. Coldsores are VERY painfull and last for around 2 weeks if not treated - so while I am NOT questioning what the doctors have said to Charlotte, I want to point out that in my whole life of getting coldsores (and speaking to many people about them) I have never heard of a coldsore coming up and then dissapearing the next day without treatment. All of you lucky people that have never had a coldsore - if you are now in your adult life it is very very very unlikely that you will ever get a coldsore as you are obviously fortunate enough to not carry the virus. It is a very sad situation and I do understand people for thinking it may be a fake story - it is the internet after all - and no one was to know that Charlotte was to read this, we have had a far few made up stories on here that NO ONE questioned - even though a lot probably thought in their heads that it was a bit suss - no one spoke out - so its good that people are speaking out if that makes sense. On the other hand I do understand her friends wanting to back her up etc - but you do have to realise that everyone on here in both the threads where just talking within ourselves - not saying it directly to Charlotte so no one would have ment it in a nasty way. Coldsores are such a huge part of my life - so had to add my 2c in! ETA - Wow in my time of writing that novel 3 more people have posted! ------------- TTC 6 years IVF it is IVF/ICSI round one 10 eggs, 8 mature, 3 fertilised BFN IVF/ICSI #2 = 22 eggs! 20 mature, 15 fertilised, 1 fresh transfer and 2 frosties BFN 2 Frosties still in freezer thank god |
Posted By: LittleBug
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:29pm
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You are not born with the virus or not, but once you catch it, it stays in your body (so it can recur if you are tired/run-down - I got heaps of coldsores when I was pregnant).
DH had never had a coldsore until he met me, and when I had one I was super-vigilant (no kissing, washing hands, etc. because IMO I wouldn't want to pass it on whether or not it was minor, it's not nice). He still got the virus, and he got it really badly, because it was his first time and sometimes apparently that can happen. His whole mouth was covered in sores and he could barely eat I felt so bad!
Anyway he still got it despite me being very vigilant, so I was really just asking about treatment - is there anything you could do for your baby if they started feeling ill and you knew they might have been exposed to the virus? ------------- Chloe (4 years) and Oliver (3 years). |
Posted By: blondy
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:30pm
Sorry, but not true! BooBoo, your DH probably does have the virus, but just gets it sub-clinically, so doesn't get actual coldsores. And the HSV-1 is generally acquired during the first 5 years of life - you aren't born with it, but most of us don't show any symptms when we do have a primary infection.
If you haven't had a coldsore ever as an adult, it probably means that you do have the virus already, but don't show any symptoms. -------------
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Posted By: blondy
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:33pm
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LittleBug - I think if you suspected you had passed along HSV, you could ask your doctor for oral acyclovir (the anti-HSV medication), or one of the similar alternate anti-HSV drugs. That would give the baby a fighting chance, but it would have to be giving early enough so that the virus hadn't been able to get a foothold. -------------
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Posted By: ?Lolly?
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:40pm
Off topic but: I 'had' a friend who convinced us all she was carrying twins (this was years ago, before I had mine) we even had a baby shower for her. Only to find out later (after a fictional miscarriage) that she had made the whole thing up. It was very upsetting for all of us at the time. I would not have posted the story if I had doubted it's authenticity. ------------- Captain Chaos (5) & the Trouble Monsters (2!)
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Posted By: WRXnKids
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 2:56pm
I understand you wanting to protect or stand up for your friend but im sorry noone can expect us to google every story we have had posted on here to verify the facts. We are all busy and the concerns about it being a hoax were valid and in no way an attempt to offend your friend. It was just a simple question to the initial poster who seemed to have all the information. I dont follow every link that is posted on here to research the topic or check for how genuine the story is i have a 2 yr old who is more often than not helping me while i type or read making it sometimes impossible to get a full story and much easier to post a quick question. What is the problem with her questioning the medical results? It is very rare she doesnt know the doc or hospital where it was done she doesnt know your friend personally for all we know the results might have more issue that contibuted. You cant pick on her for posting her concerns or doubts on a forum that has been conned before. My point was that you didnt need to come on here and judge people for their reactions to another medical warning we get soo many. I am almost at the point where i feel we cant say Hi without a disclaimer stating we meant no offence to lurkers who might come by this. Right im leaving this now damn hormones getting me all fired up  -------------
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Posted By: fattartsrock
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 3:01pm
I realise that, I posted that for the benefit of the newbies who seemed to have put their claws away now. Stink "friend" BTW. ------------- The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P |
Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 3:13pm
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I actually think some of you have been unreasonably hard on Charlotte's friends. I think NZPipers question was possibly fair as there are a number of hoax type stories that do the rounds, however I had read about this one on a reputable news website at the time so know it to be true.
To Charlotte's friends, please don't feel bad about coming to defend her and clarify the facts, I think you are great friends and I would like to think that mine care as much about me as you do her. P.S, I've been here for AGES, and have never written in the introductions thread... |
Posted By: lizzle
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 3:23pm
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I just think it looks dodgy with the friends all rushing to defend, yet all three (or two - i forget) are newbies, with the defence being their first posts. and similiar looking profiles. I am by nature a suspicious person, and will continue to be so
and also, if my child had died (shudder) and i was posting my story to let everyone know, I would assum people WOULD be suspicious - this is the nature of the online community. |
Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 3:48pm
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But the mother didn't post the story here, one of our regular posters did. I think the friends found the post due to a link on her facebook page or something.
Anyway, IMO (everyone doesn't have to share it) I can't see that the friends have done anything wrong except to join up to "our" site to tell us that the story is indeed true and that there is a heartbroken mother without her baby. The first time I heard of Mira was in 2008 in http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1081076/Did-I-kill-baby-kiss-How-anguished-mother-didnt-discover-danger-common-cold-sore-virus-late-.html - this article. |
Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 4:25pm
Sorry, I wasnt clear. I wasnt questioning the results. I was trying to make a point that it not just HSV that could kill a newborn. All (or at least most) viruses are dangerous to newborns. |
Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 4:44pm
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i also want to say, that I get why our newbies posted and I wasnt offended by that at all.....I just wish I could articulate my thoughts better so they dont get misconrtued all the time. I think the benefit of being "known" on a site like this is people get to know your personality somewhat and can better gauge how you mean something.
I have had a look at the FB site and it is incredibly sad. I cant even begin to imagine what it would be like to lose a newborn. I came close to knowing when my first had to have a lumbar puncture at 3 days old for suspected meningitis but even coming close is not the same ( I imagine). Yes it is sad that there are so many hoaxes and I hate getting sucked in. I recently got an email (from a lovely OB poster..he he) about a dog that needed a home. I was so taken in by it I even rang up DH to ask if we could have it....only to get an email shortly after apologising for the hoax they had just discovered. As I have said, it was just a simple question, which got the required answer. 
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Posted By: JodyR
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 9:16pm
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ETA - posted that before I was quite ready.
Hopes - thanks, yes we were a little bit outspoken I guess, speaking for myself in my first replies I did try to stay polite even while I was trying to make my point but since I am a stranger here it's as difficult for me to make my tone understood as it was for the people we were initially upset by. Thanks for understanding though. It's also hard to reply to everyone who then replied to me as it feels like a conversation going mad, IYSWIM, lots of people to reply to at the same time. Emiloly - please don't feel guilty, you've done exactly what the group was set up to do, raise awareness of the condition and make sure people are careful and know what to do if they have concerns about their own baby. Fattartsrock - I take your point too, we have all been members of a bereavement forum for a long time and we have had a lot of fakes on their claiming to have lost babies and it's very upsetting. Many members have devoted time and effort, cried over these 'lost' babies and then found out they never existed. So I honestly understand why people here are being careful and raising questions too but it was because we know how terrible the fakes are and how hurtful it is that we also knew how upset Charlotte felt to be grouped in with them and that's why we decided to post here. Booboo - yes I understand that at first nobody realised Charlotte had been sent a link to the threads and it must feel a bit like being overheard by the person you were talking about, no offence intended but still a little bit embarrassing to discover you weren't alone and your conversation wasn't private after all. Thanks though for putting things straight about it. Emiloly - What a terrible friend and an awful thing to do. Thank you though for taking the time to still read Mira's story and check the facts before posting the link, I'm sure everyone here will feel confident of any link you publish from now on. WRXandJosh - the problem was, as I said to you before, that the person who questioned Mira's story didn't even seem to have read it properly from her first comments about it. I can understand her questioning the whole story as one block, "is this genuine or a fake?" but not then to go on to question the post mortem results as a separate thing and say that lots of infections could have been responsible. Since it was so specific I don't think it's unreasonable to google it even in a busy lifestyle (I have a nine month old climbing on me right now as my laptop is like a magnet to him), as I said lots of responses came up on google within seconds and without even opening them I could see the first one said this virus can be fatal for new babies and that the second one mentioned Mira by name (and on reading it later it was a very upsetting telling of Mira's story in an American newspaper, so again well done Charlotte for being brave enough to tell it and spread awareness to yet another country). I am not picking on anyone but since this is causing your hormones some stress perhaps it's best if I explain that directly to nzpiper as it is her we are discussing and apologise to you for the stress you are feeling and wish you well with the pregnancy. Summerlambs - thanks and I am sure yours do. Lizzle - we all came over as newbies from the link to facebook and joined when we saw the comment asking if it was a hoax and the 'joke' about catching herpes. We didn't stop to introduce ourselves (although after someone pointed out it was site protocol I did) or edit profiles but I can assure you we are different people and are Charlottes friends. If you choose to report your concerns to admin I am sure we can all provide enough details to them to prove that. We are concerned friends trying to help a friend whose feelings have been hurt, nothing more sinister than that. ETA - If it helps to reassure you, I am also Jody R on the BabyandBump forum, you are welcome to go find me there and check me out. nzpiper - thanks, that does make what you meant a bit clearer. Most viruses and illnesses are a lot more serious for newborns and it's tragic that the doctors didn't know until after Mira died what the virus she had was. That's the reason Charlotte is doing this, if she had thought her cold sore had anything to do with it she could have told the doctors and who knows if things would have turned out differently. Glad we answered the question for you, even in our outspoken way. And if you can find a way to type stuff on the internet that doesn't get misunderstood then you'll be the first in internet history and I want to know your secret because I seem to type with one foot in my mouth on a regular basis.
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Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 10:55pm
JodyR.....I did say that, didnt I? Just re-reading my own post and I am horrified to read it the way it is written. As I said before that is not what I meant....and not what I thought I had written. I apologise for not making it clear. Can I blame baby brain for making a hell of a typo???? Hey, at least with all this debate, more people will be aware of it now 
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 11:10pm
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nzpiper i dont think there was anything wrong with what you posted... i got it.. you were just inquiring and "talking" out loud. Not insulting or trying to badmouth anyone at all.
------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: ?Lolly?
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 11:32pm
I have to smile at this as I am cursed with it on a regular basis. Thank god I can click on EDIT! ------------- Captain Chaos (5) & the Trouble Monsters (2!)
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Posted By: JodyR
Date Posted: 18 January 2010 at 11:51pm
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nzpiper - baby brain is still affecting me nine months after my baby was born so I think it's an excuse that works for everything. And I'm sure a lot more people are now aware of this virus thanks to this debate. And hopefully I've found a new place to come chat with some people who seem very nice so that's good too.
Emiloly - I only wish I had an edit button for real life as well as internet life sometimes. |
Posted By: MrsH
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 7:48am
There is - I'm not sure of the technical term but I like to call it "Avoiding that person like the plague"  ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 7:51am
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MrsH....dont you get that shiver down your spine when you see such a person?
I think the edit button in real life would consist of a great big hole opening up. |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 8:21am
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the edit button needs to be where what you are going to say comes out but isnt heard till you hear it first... and can change it! i would so love one of those.
JodyR yes please do come back and visit us - i think you'll find lots of stuff of interest on here.! ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: peanut butter
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 8:25am
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or maybe it just bleeps over what you are saying.
I second that JodyR...I just read your moving story in the stillbirth section....I just cant believe that someone can go through that and then pick themselves up and keep going...I am truly humbled!! Off to give my boys a huge hug (actually, I'm looking at their sticky jam faces and think I'll do that hug a little later  )
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Posted By: littlepips
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 11:02am
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I have had this forum jog around in my head alot today. I see simply from the amount of times you have posted that you are a pretty tight knit community and we must have seemed like we were jumping in and launching attack. It really wasn't a claws situation, I certianly didn't hunt down the site and decide I could tell you what to do, I followed the link on Chalottes fb after she had commented that she was heartbroken by what she had read.
Emiloly I think it is wonderful that you chose to raise awareness. Very brave of you all to discuss it openly, as I know in my first pregnancy I couldn't have bared to think about the loss of a baby being a reality. You certianly haven't caused an arguement. I do wish that the forum had been made aware that Charlotte was given the link though. As much as you all know each other well and discuss topics openly it may have made a big different to know that Mira's mummy would see all this. I am also sorry that there have been sickos herr who have hoaxed on the site, and also an army in there defense. Knowing that has thrown a whole other spin on my thoughts as I can totally see why you approach topics with caution. I have had more than enough mothers fake the loss of a baby and almost as bad, too many mother's who believe the actual loss of a baby is their passport to disrespecting everyone else who has endured the same loss. There are indeed too many freaks out there. I also popped an introduction on the forum, I'm definatedly not JodyR in disguise, I wish I had her conduct as I did come on the the forum, quite angry and in very much Scrappy Dog style 'let me at em' mood. summerlambs - reading your comment really did bring a breath of fresh air and the reason being this lizzle - as I said above I now understand how we may have looked defending our lovely Charlotte. I will say this though, lossing my daughter very much changed how I precieve and do things. With all the love and passion I look at my living son with I know I also harbour it's equal in my heart for my daughter. So when I tell her story, it doesn't cross my mind for a minute that it will be disbelieved. Mira's story is very unique, it is baffling something that seems so simple, so trival could take the life of a baby, but it did. Charlotte will absolutely have expected questions about how? and what to do in case of? but I don't think for a minute she expeccted to stumble upon the question is this real. It's very real for her. The wounds of child loss run very deep and in our community of mothers who know that, we are passionate about ensuring that hurt is eased as much as possible. We aren't some exculsive club, believe me nobody would blooming well want to have membership, we just walk the same walk. I lost my beautiful daughter in childbirth, it came as a complete shock following a fantastic healthy pregnancy. Therewere no complications, it was during early labour, the midwife listened to her heartrate several hours before, it was fine and there had been no indication of stress. All the test, blood results, placenta, cord etc results came back as normal. In the UK 50% of stillbirths are unaccounted for, so many mothers wondering why. My second pregnancy was far from my text book first, I was stressed, I somehow contracted ecoli, I had a bleed towards the end, my relationship was in meltdown, I was unable to deal with my grief and was terrified about facing labour again. Seth was born by emergancy c-section having gone breech after induction, he arrived having a prolapsed cord with a true knot. All reasoning pointed to my healthy natural pregnancy having the outcome of a beaming baby. Instead I got to spend the most precious few hours of my life with my daughter knowing I would never see that sweet face again. Had Seth not gone breech I can't stomach to think of the outcome. But he did, he is with me and I often can't believe just how bless I am....even if he does create 10 times more work for mummy! Birth and life are full of strange happenings, some very strange but when they are your truth, when your way of loving your child is to use their story to raise awareness yes you are more open to comments and there will be many who may disbelieve but Charlotte seen these comments by invitation. My goodness you are at the other end of the world I couldn't have hunted down this site if I tried. You are very lucky to have such a supportive online community and I don't mean to carry on injecting negativity on your forum but I do hope that you feel a little less invaded and realise that amongst the crazy strangers and defensive friends out there, we simple needed to pop in and say hey, it hurts like hell this side of the fence, please be a little cautious....Crossed wires are a terrible thing, hope they seem a little straighter, take care. Alison x p.s. another who can't live without the edit button, my spelling says it all.... |
Posted By: babyg
Date Posted: 19 January 2010 at 10:32pm
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Ok, so I actually have a question about the topic at hand ....
So I seem to be a great carrier of the coldsore virus, I get them all the time. So does that mean that my babies will automatically be immune for me having carried them? Or would I need to pass the immunity through my BM antibodies? Sorry, I'm just not a googler this late at night - hopefully someone here can answer my question. ------------- Ev, Mum to: Carys Ruby - 4 October 2007 Spencer James - 2 July 2010 |
Posted By: caitlynsmygirl
Date Posted: 20 January 2010 at 1:04am
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I have just read this thread, I won't say much about what NZpiper posted, i've had the privilege of being on this forum with her for awhile and I know what a kind , caring person she is ,so I know her comment was in no way meant to offend .
The only thing I want to say about it, is how very very sorry I am that a little baby died and I send Charlotte and her husband my deepest of sympathies . I could not imagine losing my children , I think people that go through the loss of a child and still get up and face the day , are the bravest people in the world , and my heart goes out to you . From a mother to a mother , I am so sorry for your loss . ------------- 
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Posted By: blondy
Date Posted: 20 January 2010 at 8:24am
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babyg - you will probably pass your antibodies through placenta or BM to your baby, but even antibodies against HSV don't mean your baby will be immune to the virus. Chances are that you will also pass the virus along sometime (most likely in the first 5 years) to your baby. What the antibodies mean is that if your baby does get the virus, the infection will be much less severe, and possibly with no symptoms at all. I'm not sure about whether the HSV-1 antibodies are passed mostly via placenta or BM, but in any case it will take a few weeks for your baby's immune system to mature enough to be able to adequately deal with any infection.
My Mum and Dad both had coldsores frequently, and although niether my sister nor I have ever had a coldsore, chances are that we both carry the virus. -------------
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Posted By: babyg
Date Posted: 20 January 2010 at 10:49pm
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Thanks, I'll just keep it in mind for my babies too then. ------------- Ev, Mum to: Carys Ruby - 4 October 2007 Spencer James - 2 July 2010 |