PND
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Category: General Chat
Forum Name: General Chat
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URL: https://www.ohbaby.co.nz/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34380
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Topic: PND
Posted By: lizzle
Subject: PND
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 7:40am
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Now, this is not meant to stir - genuine interst here.
I am 32 so lots of my friends are having/had children and it seems to me, the ones who accidentally got preggers didn't get PND, while the ones that TTCed DID get PND. My theory is that we people who got UTD accidentally weren't so keen on motherhood so didn't build it up in our heads, so when the baby arrived, we didn't expect it to be sunshine and rainbows, but my friends that TTCed for years (high school friends) were disappointed and upset with themselves when the darling baby they had longed for, at times was annoying and loud. So how true is my theory? Baring in mind my research was completely anecdotal and limited to about four people I know who talked about having PND who just hapenned to have TTCed |
Replies:
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 8:41am
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i suppose that if motherhood doesnt meet your expectations, as quite often happens when you really really really want something, then you could leave yourself more open to get PND. I dont think there is a link though as PND isnt just a state of mind (from what i understand).
i know for me i really wanted a baby and tried for a long time but i didnt get PND, but i know i have trouble reconciling the dream with the reality. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: BeLoved
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 8:51am
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We TTC'd for a year or so but I did not get PND, I thought the same as Bizzy that it was not just a state of mind, but related to chemical imbalances etc. caused by pregnancy etc. I did take a alot of supplements etc. that I had read would help to keep things in balance but I don't know if they actually made any difference. I was at risk of having PND due to a complicated last trimester with GD and other issues.
I do think in general the ideal and the reality are very different things and anyone at anytime can be left feeling "something does not quite add up here" edited to add geez sorry for all the etc. etc! ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com"> 
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Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 9:17am
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Well, this could definitely become a sensitive topic but I will stick up my hand and say that I TTC for 3wks and got pregnant pretty much as soon as possible once we started trying after getting married - and I have PND. There is no one single cause of PND. There are a whole lot of factors. One factor CAN BE that people's expectations of what birth/feeding/motherhood is going to be like don't eventuate. But many mothers experience that because motherhood is always full of surprises. However, if you combine it with other factors, such as:
- history of mental illness - little support (friends/family/partner) - difficult baby, eg. sleep issues, reflux/colic, poor feeding - personality, eg. need to control things or high expectations of yourself, low self-esteem - difficult labour - baby blues lasting longer than usual Obviously you don't have to have all of those factors but some of them - and there are others, but I can't think what they are just now. The most important thing is that even if you have unmet expectations or a certain personality type, you may not end up with PND at all... And it's also important to add that it is not anyone's fault that they might get PND. It's unhelpful to think along the lines of "if I wasn't such a control freak or if I had not believed it was all going to be a bed of roses then I may not have got it!" That is incorrect and far too simplistic as well as unhelpful blaming yourself! It is helpful though if you are planning a baby to consider and challenge the expectations you do have of your birth, feeding and motherhood in general so that you are as prepared as you can be. Although I would add nothing prepares you for it really because I tried to prepare myself but I hadn't realised what it was going to really be like. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: luvmylittlies
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 9:28am
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Interesting observation.
I wonder if it might have something to do with the fact that those with unexpected pregnancies had to work through that as a life changing thing before they even got to having the baby. Whereas possibly those TTC for ages have so much expectation riding on the actual baby that reality is hard to match it. These are just thoughts okay - no-one bite my head off here! But in saying that I've not had any issues with PND and we were trying to have a baby for 3 years. Actually thinking about it - in my coffee group those with PND or signs I think were mostly the ones that didn't have any trouble conceiving. ETA: I've had issues in the past with depression so I thought I'd be a sitter for PND. ------------- Adoring Mum to Talisin 8/9/11 and Kiara 18/01/10 |
Posted By: Bobbie
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 9:59am
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I attribute my PND to my inability to handle the influx of female hormones. Every time I went on the pill I went a bit nutso and PND was really a sustained version of that.
I did plan both my pregnancies.First time I had a text book baby, second time I had a reflux baby who had feeding issues and didn't sleep. I had great family support both times. I  'd my birth experiences. I didn't have any expectations of how having a baby would be so I don't think there was any unrealistic goals set.
Both times I didn't have baby blues and actually was fine for ages and then at about 4 months the PND just hit. -------------  
 
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Posted By: Babe
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 10:36am
I had PND and Psychosis with Jake - my surprise baby and no PND (as yet  ) with Tyler - my planned baby. Though when I say planned I mean we discussed it abit, DP came round to the idea, we got a BFP 2 weeks later 
Lizzle I think it could def be a factor for some people getting PND though coz like newlywed said there are a huge amount of factors and PND kinda covers a broad spectrum - it doesn't refer to JUST chemical depression IYKWIM... Hmmm I'm wondering if *I* know what I mean  -------------   
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Posted By: Richie
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 11:08am
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Isla wasn't planned, but not exactly an accident iykwim..... and I have PND but I was expecting it anyway due to a history of depression and not being able to handle situations where I'm not 100% in control. So sometimes not knowing why Isla was upset would really do my head in, still does. I didn't have much in the way of expectations of what motherhood was going to be like. I certainly didn't think it was going to be easy, or fun all the time so haven't been let down in anyway.
It's an interesting observation you have made but I think it's just coincidence. I have friends who have surprise babies and friends with planned babies and many of them have PND...... -------------  
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Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 11:20am
Bobbie -hormones definitely come into it. The list (incomplete) that I made were RISK FACTORS rather than a list of criteria...  ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Jelly
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 12:28pm
That's actually a really interesting theory... I go a bit mental on the pill too, overly agressive etc. and the baby blues hit me quite hard. (Panic attacks at dinner time 3 days in a row anyone?) I don't think I have PND though and I have everything crossed that I don't get it out of the blue suddenly! I do have a history of depression and towards the end of pregnancy I was prepping DP to handle me when PND hit, but I guess it's never predictable is it?
ETA: We weren't TTC, but were really bad with protection so we kinda expected a BFP at some point. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Bobbie wrote:Posted By: tishy
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 1:14pm
This is me too. I find it hard to find a contraceptive option that doesn't give me mood swings. The only one I've been successful with isn't available in NZ 
Baby blues hit me real bad (if I didn't have something to distract me I was crying), but I think the stress of 2 babies in NICU, and a husband that had to go home every night, probably added to that 
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Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 1:37pm
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well i am true to that theory.. planned both my babies with military precision:) but I also think losing a baby before Ethan and one after (12 and 6 week mc's) and not dealing with those caused it too.. (and the hormone thing as well it certainly makes my OCD way worse)
I also think while i expected motherhood to be hard i didnt expect it to be so.. draining 24/7 and I dont deal with lack of sleep very well so i find this first bit where i am up every single night for months with no break to be very tough:) and that doesnt help! ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 1:58pm
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Lily wasn't planned, but wasn't prevented. Irresponsible I know!
I know the day she was conceived, and straight after I had a little feeling about it before I went to sleep. The 3 weeks later or there abouts when I was late I thought about it but didn't actually find out until 9 weeks! Anyway I thought about every aspect of parenthood, babies etc so when she was born it wasn't a shock or anything and I think I have done really well. Don't have pnd. Although that is sorta questionable imo... I am 100% enjoying being a mum, it's just when she's asleep etc and I am not looking after her that I feel down. I did have mild depression as a teenager, but went to counseling for it. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 2:00pm
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Yeah, I've found my moods are uncontrollable since being on the pill, and also when I was on depo. I never had this problem with just condoms, but that is how dd ended up being. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: RinTinTin
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 2:57pm
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Well we TTC'd, no PND here. I have a history of depression as well so was on a high rsk list for PND, I had MMH and my own personal counsellor watching me like a hawk but I managed to dodge the bullet. I think that was partly due to the fact that I never expected it to be easy and that I fell in love with my baby so deeply from the moment I got my BFP and I swore to my baby that no matter happened I would love it and stick by it and never give up on it. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: scribe
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 3:51pm
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Could it be that the people more likely to get pregnant TTC rather than accidentally are the people with that certain "personality, eg. need to control things" so are more likely to get PND... (what do they call that, a causal link or something?)
ETA: or should I have said, the people more likely to get UTD accidentally are the kind of "relaxed" (for want of a better word!) people who aren't likely to get PND... I tend to like to control and plan my life, and so it would be quite unlikely that I got pregnant by accident ... and I had mild postnatal depression (but I had other risk factors from newlywed's list as well). I probably would've had full-blown PND if it had not been for a fantastically supportive husband working from home who was there to step in when things got too much. |
Posted By: LittleBug
Date Posted: 30 June 2010 at 10:12pm
Same here Bobbie... I was the same on the pill, and with pregnancy/postnatal period. I think a combination of that and a difficult first baby, and then getting pregnant again when Chloe was only 4 months old, all contributed! In short, I wasn't trying to TTC and I got PND. ------------- Chloe (4 years) and Oliver (3 years). |
Posted By: kazzam34
Date Posted: 09 July 2010 at 10:17am
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I know this discussion has faded away now...but just saw it and think it's really interesting. I had PND with my son - I conceived within a month of trying, so wasn't one of those people who had been TTC for a long time.
Interestingly though, I had also had big problems with the contraceptive pill. When I first started taking it I was in a very good place, very happy and within a week was depressed, anxious, tearful. I came off of it, and never went back on it. I would also say that what I got fell in to the category of PNA ie post-natal anxiety. I was so anxious and exhausted all the time as basically I did not know what to do with a baby, especially once who didn't sleep and had difficulties feeding! Our ante-natal classes had been crap, there was only one session on caring for a baby the rest had all been about labour. I didn't have any family support, my relationship with my mother was terrible (again, one of the risk factors for PND). I didn't drive and was stuck in an isolated house miles away from anywhere. There was no breast-feeding support and the midwife only came about twice after the birth and that was it... so, all in all, it would have been a miracle to have not had PND! My theory on PND is that lack of supportive family and community networks has a lot to do with it. Also the modern generation of women like me were educated to be like men, to do all the career stuff. Whereas 40 years ago the expectation was that women would be mothers, and the education system and their own mothers prepared them for that. Kazzam |
Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 09 July 2010 at 11:02am
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Hmm, I think it is likely to be a coincidence.
We TTC for 18 months, I do like to be in control, had some very stressful events during pregnancy (some good, some bad), I had a very scary birth experience (placental abruption), live in a town with no family or friends around (we are in aussie), ended up having an operation when DS was 6 weeks old for breast abcess...... but have not had PND and have found mothering to be a joy so far!!! But then in saying that, I didn't have high expectations for motherhood, I knew there was going to be tough times, AND I have gone with the flow for a lot of things and not placed high expectations on myself (weird considering I am normally a perfectionist, you should see the house some days now when it used to be always tidy lol) which is perhaps the mistake some mums make. ------------- 
 Oct 11
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 09 July 2010 at 12:13pm
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I would have almost thought the opposite - that if you've been TTC for a long time, you're planning on adjusting your life to having a baby, and are pleased to do so. Getting UTD as a surprise means life changes you didn't anticipate and might not want...
But from the comments here, it looks like people on both sides of the fence struggle - I wonder if anyone's ever done any research into that point. I'll have to go look. -------------   
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Posted By: anon
Date Posted: 09 July 2010 at 4:10pm
Tali it's not really fair to say that mothers make the mistake of high expectations therefore end up with PND. Sure there are risk factors but whereas one person will get PND, another person won't. It's partly to do with personality, genetic makeup, biology and circumstance. It's certainly no one's fault and they are not somehow a weaker person psychologically or in any other way for getting PND with similar risk factors as you (or even less!) I know that's not what you said but I just wanted to point that out nevertheless. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 09 July 2010 at 4:56pm
Hehe... I did a (very) quick search for research on the topic - I didn't find any journal articles specifically on this (but they're probably there, I had the briefest possible search). But I did find one investigating whether the quality of food served by the hospital had any effect on postnatal depression   The things some people research!-------------
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Posted By: lisa85
Date Posted: 09 July 2010 at 6:39pm
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I think it's a very interesting theory. My girls were a surprise and we were in the worst position posible having just sold all our belongings to move back to NZ from Brisbane. Anyway we were terrified but in the end we had the girls and we were fine. We thrived even. I never had PND I barely even got the baby blues.
However I have a close friend that tried for 3 years to get pregnant then she finally did but as soon as the baby was born she got severe PND she even ended up in hospital for a couple of weeks because it got so bad. She was very much a maternal woman too. She had so many expectations about being a Mum and how perfect it would all be. Where as I was the complete opposite. I was only 22 when I found out I was preggers and I knew from watching my 6 neices and nephews grow up how hard a baby can be. But I guess it really just comes down to the individual more than anything. Who knows. I may end up with it after this birth you just never know. -------------  
TTC #3 since Jan 2010 - PCOS MC April 2010 |
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 09 July 2010 at 10:27pm
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I'd tend to agree Lizzle, I didn't get PND & I had an accident but I think I depression tendencys much later on. Like thinking about driving into trees etc. I was a tad stressed cause I went back to work where as I didn't want to.
The more interesting thing I've heard is that people with depression tendency's are set off by the introduction of progesterone into their systems ie Depo & certain types of pill. So if you have issues with the pill DON'T get the jab for birth control. ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com"> 
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 10 July 2010 at 7:26pm
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No you are right newlywed, didn't mean to imply that...more that *sometimes* high stress can be a factor in depression and that having high expectations on yourself can lead to stress....IYKWIM?
Just one of many triggers but the one that could have led me personally to have pnd (I was kinda surprised with my perfectionism tendencies that I didn't get it!!). But then I have never been depressed (not clinically at least lol) so guess didn't have that risk factor. But my grandma had postnatal depression really badly so you would think I had the genetics for it!! I guess my point newlywed was that the original posters question was not correct in my case whereby long term ttc led to pnd hehe. And it was kinda implied there that long term ttc had higher expectations of motherhood. -------------
Oct 11
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Posted By: Kazper
Date Posted: 10 July 2010 at 7:50pm
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Coming from someone who TTC for 4 years and went through ivf over a period of 3 years, in the books they give you when undertaking it, they say women under going fertility treatment stand a higher chance of PND and higher possibly of it being more severe.
I to think it can happen randomly and there could be so many different factors. If I remember rightly, one of the reasons was that a lot of women who have gone through TTC and/or fertility treatment feel that they need to be super mum and should feel a certain way and be happy all of the time and don't ask for help, even though that is not always possible with the raging hormones we get right. So I can definitely see how that would happen. I managed to escape PND, but was a little nervous about getting it as I knew I put high expectations on myself and wasn't always feeling bubbly so to speak. So the view that came across to me wasn't that women didn't realise what they were in for and sugar coated it, but more that the women expect more from themselves and put pressure on themselves to perform the best they can and may try top that - if that makes any sense. ------------- http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/545141" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 11 July 2010 at 10:32am
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yip totally makes sense Kazper. That is really interesting about the pnd depression in fertility treatment so I guess it goes to show that there has been research done on the topic.....
I wonder if in some cases people who have been ttc for a long time are actually already getting depressed IYKWIM?? So then after baby comes it might trigger pnd? Goodness knows it is a rollercoaster of emotions ttc..... -------------
Oct 11
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Posted By: Kazper
Date Posted: 11 July 2010 at 12:03pm
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Yeh who knows Tali. How great is it that it is recognised now. Never use to be.
I see how people TTC can get that feeling where they can't talk. Every time I had a bad day or something and wanted to talk about it, someone would say you should feel so lucky you even have a baby which made me feel really bad. It shouldn't be that way. ------------- http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/545141" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 11 July 2010 at 3:57pm
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Yes that is a good point Karen esp for people who go through IVF...probably made to feel by some people that they should be grateful to have a baby (which I am sure they are!) but they are still mums just the same with up and down days like any other. -------------
Oct 11
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