moving away rights?
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Category: General Chat
Forum Name: General Chat
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Topic: moving away rights?
Posted By: chonni
Subject: moving away rights?
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 4:53pm
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hi there i was just woundring if anyone could tell me about my rights?
after i finish my nurcing i would like to move to australia with mila. im not with milas day and have not been since she was one he sees her every weekend on sat. no one has custody, i feel really bad but i cant stay in wellington my whole life just because of him. do i need to get custody of her before i can move? and what happens if we get shared custody? hes not on the birth cert but he pays child support ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 5:25pm
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I am pretty sure you can't without his permission and if you do he can force you to return her to NZ using the Hague convention... ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 5:26pm
| Exactly what I was gonna say. I have a few friends and family spread around who are stuck in their town or area because of the kids |
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 5:31pm
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I would say cause he's not on the birth cert you can do what ever you want. I'd expect for him to not pay your any support though if you do go. ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com"> 
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: jazzy
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 5:32pm
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I know the child support is a lot tougher there & they take more than here. If he gets worried about that he may try & stop you.
ETA...if he pays support to you & not through wins then there probably wont he any problems there. & if he is not on the birth cert he has no clams I guess, without going to court & paying big $. |
Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 6:22pm
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I think the fact he pays child support and visiting regularly will be seen by the court as exercising his parental rights... My ex and I had no custody arrangement prior to me sending DD overseas for a year and the court ordered I returned her or face going to prison for abduction... and that was to a country not covered by the Hague convention which is much more complex situation. I was told he is considered as a guardian despite no formal arrangement and he only saw her 3-4 times a year. You could get over there and be forced to return, so you probably need to deal with the legal stuff first cos I tell ya it's damn expensive doing it the other way! ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: kiwikid
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 7:28pm
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Maybe contact the Citizens Advice people to get some advice on the situation?? ------------- 
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Posted By: busymum
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 7:56pm
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Absolutely. Or check out www.lsa.govt.nz and see if you are eligible to get some advice on legal aid (ie not have to pay for it). -------------  |
Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 9:41pm
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If he isn't on the birth cert then he isn't legally a guardian unless the court has made him one. He could try and force you to submit to a paternity test so he can get put on the birth cert - but so far the law favours women, and you can't be forced to submit your child to a paternity test.
Basically, you can go do what you like. But the child support will likely stop. Definately have a chat to a family lawyer or citizen advice. But basically if they not on the birth cert you can say he not the father and do what you like. Better to go down the nice path though if you want your daughter to have a relationship with him? That's up to you - but pointing out that it costs less to fly to oz than most places in NZ might help  ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 8:13am
what an awful system for men! You think the fact that he has visited regularly and paid child support would be enough for the court to order paternity testing so he can exercise the rights he should legally be entitled to... ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
kmasonnz wrote:Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 9:50am
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Yeah that's the thing, it's not very fair. There is a push to change it by legal and fathers groups so a paternity test can be forced, but so far no luck. Depending on the length of time and involvement he could apply to rights, but really unless a biological link is proven, he would only be entitled to the same rights as possibly a step-parent!
I guess it's not dissimilar to the theory of a woman's body being her own. A woman's child is her own unless she chooses to involve the father. & there are some pretty good reasons for her to be able to retain that control in a number of situations I won't go into for fear of boring even myself! :D I really don't know how the fact he has paid child support impacts on the situation though. That might give more weight to the fact he is the father, but still, he hasn't been put on birth certificate so he doesn't really have much standing. Have to say again though, definately don't take my word for it - check with a lawyer that's actually practicing! ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: GuestGuest
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 9:51am
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I agree Freckle!
What is your relationship like with him? Do you think he will cause trouble? If so it may be better to sort custody legally sooner rather than later. Would he be in a position to move to Aust as well? I have a friend who is no longer with the father of her children but he moved to Aust when she did to be closer to them. |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 9:58am
actually i think this is incorrect now. this is the new guardianship laws from www.justice.govt.nz Parents as guardians Both parents are usually guardians Usually, a child's mother and father are joint guardians of the child. They are often referred to as the child's natural guardians. However, while a child's mother is automatically a guardian, the child's father is a guardian only if: he was married to or in a civil union with the child's mother at any time from when the child was conceived until it was born the child was conceived before 1 July 2005 and he was living with the child's mother when the child was born the child was conceived on or after 1 July 2005 and he was living with the child's mother at any time between conception and the birth, or on or after 1 July 2005 he and the mother jointly notified the birth and the father appears on the birth certificate. If the birth was not jointly notified but the father was added to the certificate between 1 July 2005 and 25 January 2009 the father is a guardian if: the mother requested the father be added at the time the birth was notified, and produced a notice signed by the father acknowledging paternity and consenting to being added; or if the father requested to be added after the birth was notified and the mother confirmed he was the father. the Family Court has appointed or declared the father a guardian. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 10:02am
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IMO you would be better off talking to him and coming to an agreement together instead of just pulling stakes and moving. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker">
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Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 11:00am
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yeah bizzy those are the rules... but when you look into the case law basically it will come down to whether he is the father... ummm... not explaining it well..
If he IS the father, then he can get guardianship status if those rules apply. BUT the test to prove he is the father (being a paternity test) can't be forced on a mother or child at the moment. Does that make more sense? So all she has to do is say no to a paternity test, he can't prove he is the father, and therefore he doesn't get guardianship or rights unless he applies to the court ant the court awards him rights. The court still cannot force her to submit to a paternity test. But I totally agree with what you said - the talking and sorting it out way far better than just up and running, you still have to explain to your daughter at some point, and if he is a good father then you would want him to stay involved right? ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 11:17am
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That is really crap for fathers...I can just imagine some women being total b**ches and refusing to have their name on the birth certificate but the dad wants contact..sucks for them.
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 Oct 11
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Posted By: GuestGuest
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 11:29am
| Agreed. Fathers get such a raw deal, it really annoys me. There are so many good fathers out there who don't get access to their children because the mother denies it out of spite. |
Posted By: ajmmum
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 11:48am
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Yip. It's not cool. But (and this is just a random example pulled out of my head and hopefully won't upset anyone) on the other side, could you imagine if you were a rape victim, or in an abusive relationship and the "father" could be forced onto birth cert and have rights, not only to the child but to stop you moving etc?
The law will be amended I am sure - that the courts can force paternity testing in certain circumstances. Just takes time to work out how to do it without infringing on bill of rights issues and safety etc. As I said too, fathers can apply to the courts and the courts will weigh it up and can grant guardianship even if they aren't conclusively proven to be fathers. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: crafty1
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 12:24pm
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It would be a shame to move away and deprive them both of the chance to have a relationship tbh.
I'm sure he could fight it if he wanted to as others have said - he sees her regularly and pays support. If someone tried to take my child to Aussie i would fight it too! ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: mummyofprinces
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 12:39pm
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Its hard, you have a right to live your life and your child has a right to see her father...
Its not an easy decision to make but I do agree it would be best to sit down and talk it out. You may find he is understanding and receptive. I think if you leave him out of the decision you are more likely to be forced into staying as he may say not to spite you.... I would think about what you are going to bring to the table, you are effectively asking to take his child away so I would be expecting how you plan for your daughter to see him... after all this is your decision not his or your daughters iygwim. Good luck! -------------   
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Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 1:01pm
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How would Mila feel about not seeing her father?
It sounds like he is a father to her, gives financial support and sees her on a regular basis, if they have a good bond I think it would be a shame to break that for her. This isn't directed at you but it astounds me that fathers get such a raw deal, why the system believes that a woman holds all the cards simply because she was the incubator horrifies me. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: chonni
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 6:37pm
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yeah thats the thing i dont want to go through the whole cort thing i will deffinitly try talk to him first i beleive we are both the parents and noone should have full custody we dont really get along very well but i just dont want to have to do that to him.
i dont think he wants to be stuck in nz either. but this wont be happening till mila if 6 or 7 and, i know it may be selfish but i just dont want to have to stay here, i would never stop him from seeing her and i would be willing to do everything i can so that he could still see her when we are over there. how do i bring this up with him without starting off a huge fight and scare him into trying to get custody? -------------
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Posted By: jaz
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 7:11pm
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Broach the topic carefully and plant the seed now. If you aren't intending to make the move until she is much older and is able to travel between the two countries to see him then hopefully he will be open to it.
It all depends on what arrangement you have before you go though. If you have shared custody I can't see him or a court allowing you to take her overseas. If she has every second weekend with him and he is happy to change that to two weeks every school holidays then its workable. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 20 August 2010 at 10:25am
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Also don't forget that if she is older, she will have formed a closer bond with her dad and might get upset with not seeing him. She will be old enough to think you are taking her away from him IYKWIM.
It is hard, I guess that sometimes you just have to make sacrifices for your kids. -------------
Oct 11
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Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 20 August 2010 at 10:42am
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Just what I was going to say Tali! It will get much harder as she gets older...
I kind of think when ya have kids you have to put their needs first, esp with stuff like this... moving her away from her dad resulting in significantly restricting his access to her could be very hard on her... seems such a shame for her as sounds like she's got a decent dad who is really making an effort... I also think formalising your custody arrangements is quite necessary as you don't know what the future will bring... ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |