Circumcision pros and cond
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Topic: Circumcision pros and cond
Posted By: spicey
Subject: Circumcision pros and cond
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 5:21am
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A friend of mine brought up this topic since o have a little boy and asked whether I was going to do this or not. It never crossed my mind. Wouldlove to hear sone thoughts ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: nicandtyler
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 7:06am
IMO really really against it, no need to go cutting bits off that little boys were born with  ! It never crossed my mind either, I dont really think there are any pros to be honest, unless of course there was some medical reason where it was a necessity ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
 April '11
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 7:22am
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IMO - Pro's
It can reduce your chances of picking up HIV (not as much of a problem in NZ as in the countries where they're recommending it for that reason, but still a pro) It keeps things easier to clean (my cousin, an ambulance officer, says he's seen so many dirty smelly old men that he'd get his kids done now). Some people do it for religeous reasons (Jews believe that God has commanded them to, some Christians have similar beliefs) Con's I didn't think it was really necessary - HIV isn't a huge issue in NZ, and safe sex is well-taught and most people can afford condoms! Most men are onto-it enough to keep themselves clean, I figure we can teach him when he's a kid and if he lets things drop that far when he's older circumcision will be the last of his worries. I pretty much took the 'if it aint broke, why fix it' stance. It's an operation, with some risks, and the pros weren't enough to convince me it was worth it. Also, kids can be cruel - I reckon most little boys now days won't be circumcised, so without a good reason why make Jacob look 'different'. -------------   
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Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 7:37am
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Can see absolutely no point to it. Why would you chop something off your little boy? The only time I would consider it acceptable is if he is having any medical issues (which some boys do). ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 7:44am
Well, there are reasons, otherwise no-one would. They just might not be reasons you or I feel were particularly convincing. I agree with the medical thing, I wouldn't hesitate if he needed it for medical reasons. -------------
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clover wrote:Posted By: spicey
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 7:48am
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I agree totally why do it. My friend said it is cleaner and just got me thinking but I couldn't put my son through an op ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 8:33am
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Having a boy, following with interest!
Not my experience, but my ex is circumcised and ne was never teased about it - i remember one occasion my (drunken) male flatmates asking to see because they were curious 
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Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 9:29am
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I would never want to put my son through the pain of it, which is why my mum decided to not get my youngest brother done as it broke her heart seeing my two others bro's get it done.
My DH hasnt been done and hes had no problems! Its there for a reason IMO. ------------- |
Posted By: Babykatnz
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 10:17am
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Went through the medical circumcision route recently with my oldest, he was in the 1% of males who end up NEEDING it done for medical reasons (his was closing over, making it hard and painful to pee) but when he was born, I really didnt see the need to put him through that pain.
If this one is a boy then I still wont get it done, most doctors dont agree with it these days either. 1% is a small number, and its not hereditary, just completely random. ------------- Brandon - 05/12/2003  
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 11:12am
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There aren't that many docs around who do them these days without medical or religious reasons.
Just think that most boys don't get it done now so you boy may end up being the odd one out |
Posted By: kittie
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 11:17am
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This is also a subject i am interested in. My DH his father and his grandfather have all ended up needing to have it done in later life
When i found out that i was having a boy i was immediately interested in finding out more info so talked to MW who told me to talk to Doc who pretty much fobbed me off so now im still as clueless as i first was! I dont want to do it unnecessarily but i also dont want my boy to have to go through the pain of getting it done later when it hurts them SO much more! ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">  http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: julz85
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 12:26pm
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My Dp was circumsised , as was all his brothers (4 boys in total ) , My Dp is very against it , he beleives it should be a choice and is actually quite bitter about the fact he was forced to get it done as a baby . i was just reading that 55%-65% of all baby boys born in the united states each year are circumsised , i am shocked at this . Its most common in the north central region . ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: RachelBerry
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 12:37pm
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There are pros to circumcision?
The ONLY time i see it as acceptable, is if your child has a medical requirement for one. I can understand some people wanting to have it done for religious reasons, but I still think it is wrong. Why on earth would someone want to chop off a part of their child's body for no good reason? Would you want to circumcise your daughter as well? |
Posted By: Happy lady
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 12:50pm
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I personally would not get my boy circumsised.
Why put a child through unnessary pain if it was not needed? IMO But I also have no problems with anyone who chooses to do it. Clearly they have their reasons and have thought about it.  ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: Nothing
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 1:13pm
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America is bascially the only country in the world that does circumcision. I would never do it to my child, why cut off a perfectly good piece of skin that is actually protecting your boys penis, just cause you can? People say they do it for religion, but acutally they didnt used to cut the whole thing off, they just nicked the foreskin, and it was left on. Here is a link to a very good site that is very anti circumcisions- they have lots of info.
http://www.drmomma.org/2010/01/are-you-fully-informed.html The one thing that i find very interesting is that is kills up to 80% of the sensation in the glands and so when boys grow up into men they dont feel as much so tend to have to be rougher during sex to get more feeling- and then it affects the girls cause there is more abrasion and less lubrication IYKWIM? ------------- 
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Posted By: rorylex
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 2:44pm
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dont know how someone can make an imformed choice when you guys are only showing 1 side.
I myself dont care either way. ------------- Mummy to 4 boys Samuel - 18.6.05 Rory - 15.7.06 Mason - 13.06.08 Emmett - 24.01.10 Baby #5 - cooking |
Posted By: pudgy
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 3:13pm
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It shoud NEVER be done unless medically required.
Please do your research on this . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35gZ2XyYVbs - Video |
Posted By: kiwikt
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 3:30pm
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I dont have kids yet, and have never put much thought into circumcision. And to be honest I still dont have an opinion either way.
But I have been following this thread with interest and it seems like people are either for or against it, each with their own valid reasons. I personally feel that it is a parents individual choice, and like many things, as long as it is truly informed, then no one should judge them for that. Now I am sure some would disagree with me here...so dont bite...but compared to a lot of things people can choose or not choose when it comes to their children, circumcision seems pretty harmless. Of course there is the argument that 80% of sensation is lost (which as a biologist seems very high and I wonder just how they came to that conclusion), but according to whom? If you have been circumcised then you dont know any better, and does this mean that all men who are circumcised dont enjoy sex as much. In my experience it doesnt seem to make a difference! There are a lot more harmful things a parent can do to their child, including 'choosing' not to immunise and relying on herd immunity to protect their child. Or ignoring their children, beating their children, etc...the list could go on. So for those of you considering this, speak to a medical professional, get some medically sound advice (and avoid some of the google sites that quote percentages and dont tell you how they came to that figure!) and then make a informed decision you are happy with. ------------- Due 14/10/11 http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: BessieBear
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 3:44pm
Thankyou. I am still in discussions with my doctor as he sugeested to get my son done for medical reasons and I don't want to. DH is done and I hate it. Its not cleaner you can teach a boy to clean himself as he gets older. That is just one of the pethetic excuses to go chopping off perfectly fine bits of little boys. Spicey don't do it. Its horrible. I've watched a you tube film of it being done to an 8 day old. Here's a good link http://www.nocirc.org/publish/pamphlet7.html - 1 ------------- Sarah Mum to, Boy 07/2008, Girl 03/2010, Boy 05/2012, Angel  07/08/2014
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 3:56pm
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Circumcision, male or female, in my opinion is mutilation and unless it's needed for real medical reasons, not uniformed notions of cleanliness, then it should be illegal. No parent should have the right to remove part of a childs body. And medical prevention is a ridiculous reason, if that was valid then they would remove everyone's appendix as a precaution as well because those can cause a problem in a small percentage of people.
Choosing not to immunise isn't done because the parents are relying on herd immunity . That is only what uniformed pro vaxxers think, so you need to get your facts straight on a few things kiwkit! ------------- 
 
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Posted By: nicandtyler
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 4:48pm
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wow kiwikt that was a pretty untrue statement regarding non-vaxxing, I havent vaxxed DS and saying that that is a 'harmful' parenting decision is not only untrue its really unfair. So I agree with two_boys - a very uninformed thing to say. *rant over*
And no, its not cleaner  the foreskin is there to protect the penis and stop dirt getting up! Boys wouldnt be born with them if they didnt need them, and you dont go around circumcising girls so I dont feel boys should be subjected to something unneccessary (apart from those small cases of it being truly needed). Please, for those of you considering it watch a video on it  It is not a painless procedure that a baby will not remeber, its horrible  ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
April '11
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 6:04pm
Hahaha, it always comes back to immunisations 
I did suspect this topic could get a bit hot under the collar. To be honest, I reckon we'd do a lot better and look a lot more adult if we put our views forward without rubbishing those of others. Everyone's entitled to their point of view, huh? Where's one of those songsters when you need them? -------------
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Posted By: Nothing
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 6:10pm
You ask who would know about the 80% loss well men can actually re-grow their foreskin, it takes a while but basically you slowly stretch your skin so it covers the glands again by using special weights- this then means that the hard layer that is on the glands can dissapear and men can get most of their sensation back- so according to men who have re-grow their foreskins i guess. I reckon it makes a huge difference with sexual partners! One guy who was circd admitted that sex wasnt that good as he couldnt feel much and so had to pound away for ages- and that is so not enjoyable. TMI- also it seems to dry you out more, so really not enjoyable there. -------------
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Posted By: crafty1
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 6:19pm
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They know about the sensation difference from adult men who have had it done.
imo - i don't think i have the right to remove a part of my boys unless it is medically indicated. If they wish to have it done when older i will fully support them. But i have friends who have had it done for cultural reasons and hey that's their call. Actually my first boyfriend had it done when we was 17 cos he didn't like the look. Was a bit sore then all right! Boys who have it done nowadays will definitely look different, but most guys my age have it done so i grew up with seeing circumcised men. I hadn't seen one with a foreskin before and then dated a younger guy and got a fright the first time hehe. Wasn't sure to do with that. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 6:34pm
Haha, that was me as well...i was like what is THAT!? Poor bloke
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Posted By: kebakat
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 6:47pm
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Regarding feeling during sex. It effects it greatly. DH was circumsized and he had problems with sensation and enjoying sex. Hes stretched his and its regrown and now has no issues.
As a side note I found out about a month ago BIL was circumsized and needed a blood transfusion from it which I found interesting and scary. No one knew he was a bleeder so he really bled. |
Posted By: jaz
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 6:54pm
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I don't see the point in putting my son through that for no real benefit. He can wash himself daily, like the rest of the population. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: _H_
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 8:05pm
Im the opposite  dont know how old either of you are but im guessing im in the younger group where it isnt "normal" for males to have it done
I personally wont do it to my boys (if i have any) unless they need it for medical reasons. I wont take my kids appendixes out just becuase they might need it done one day BUT this is just my own opinion ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 8:24pm
I'm also like you, i've never seen a circumcised one. I'm from England and as far as I'm aware it was never a popular thing to do there (I was born in the 70s so not young) -------------
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 8:45pm
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I'm 23!
I am also incredibly unlikely to get it done for my little one - but as my brother, father, grandfather and so on had it done (my brother as a 6 or 7 year old because he had to medically) i am aware that there is a possibility i might have to face this question in the future so am still following with interest though it seems to be very one sided! |
Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 9:09pm
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bowie if he were to need it later on then at least he would be old enough to understand why it was being done, he would understand about the pain as well so would be easier to cope with, plus it's much safer to have surgery when older.
My youngest may need it doing, he had an infection and the gp said that it's very tight, but he also said that most boys self right by age 5 so we are hoping for that but if he does need it at least he will be that much older when it happens. He's only had the one infection so it's not causing him huge issues, if it was then I guess they might suggest doing it younger. -------------
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Posted By: fire_engine
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 9:19pm
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Ah, the circumcision debate rears its head again ....
For a newborn - no. For medical reasons - if it was needed, then yes. If my child *needed* any other surgery for medical reasons (e.g. heart surgery, hernias, whatever), I wouldn't refuse so I don't see why this would be different. ------------- Mum to two wee boys |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 9:33pm
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Although interestingly, two_boys, my Uncle had to be circumcised for medical reasons when he was 12. He said it was so painful and embarrassing (I'm not sure why it was embarrassing - perhaps having his brothers and sisters know he was having something done 'down there', or missing time off school because of it?) that he was having his boy circumcised as a baby just to avoid the possibility of him having to go through that.
Personally, I'd be in the 'I'll do it if it needs it at the time' camp like you, but it's an interesting perspective from someone who's been there. -------------
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Posted By: julz85
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 9:42pm
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kebakat- i never knew you could "strecth" and "regrow" the foreskin ??? ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 9:44pm
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Yeah I guess going through it would give you a different view (and maybe it wasn't handled well at the time by those around him), but then his son might be annoyed later in life that they did that to him just in case. Obviously not all men are happy about it having happened to them if some go to the lengths of growing them back.
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 10:30pm
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I'm on the only for medical reasons band wagon.
Though I don't know much about the topic, I know some do it for religion and others need it done for medical reasons but for me personally we don't fit in the religion basket and unless it was for medical reason's I probably wouldn't even look into it. But if there was a family history (which there isn't) I probably would research it before hand, but even then - would still have to be a medical reason for me to do it... Off to read the other posts... ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 10:34pm
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I agree with the last poster on the previous page re vaxing and the uninformed pro vaxers making a statement like that.
Imo, every little thing about babies and becoming a parent should be thoroughly researched so you can make the best and most informed decision. Vaccinations, circumcision, bedding, sleeping, parenting... etc. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: WestiesGirl
Date Posted: 16 December 2010 at 11:25pm
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Dh and I did talk about it while I was pg but, Im of the opinion that, its there for a reason and if it didnt need to be there it wouldnt be.
Parents just need to teach their children how to clean so they know how to look after it. As for HIV, thats why there are condoms and again parental education of safe sex practices. I would never ever put my wee man through that kind of pain because I wanted it done. It doesnt belong to me so I shouldnt be the person making that decision. ------------- Our Angel July 08 Gone but not forgotten
And to complete our family, our princess has arrived 
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Posted By: clover
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 7:41am
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I wondered when vaxing would get brought into it ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Nothing
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 7:58am
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Jilz85- http://www.drmomma.org/2009/10/restoration-uncircumcising-of-men.html
Alot of men are now doing this, and are reporting that they wish they had done it years ago. -------------
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Posted By: kiwimum2010
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 12:57pm
| Wow such a hot topic. I have a 1 year old boy and I never thought about it, till friends started asking me. My DH is circumcised. We read everything we could find, talked to 5 specialists, looked on the internet (dont believe everything you read), etc etc. I did as much research as we could. In the end we did it. I dont feel I should have to justify my reasons or ask for approval or disproval from anyone. 8 of my close girlfriends have there boys circumcised and 5 didnt do it. None of us judge each other as we all did our own research, we all had our own reasons and made our own decisions on what we thought was best for our boys. I would NEVER harm my son, do something cause it was the in thing, looked cool etc, I did it for reasons which I researched etc. I have a few family members that needed to be circumcised as teenagers/adults and it was incredibly painful memorable etc for them. This was one of many influencing factors. My DH and I went when our DS was 3 weeks old and had the circumcision. He had local anesthetic and cried a little (as he does with his immunisations). The procedure bleed very minimally, my son cried a small cry for a few minutes, was given a breast feed, cuddle and then it was all over. No ongoing pain, effects etc and IMO he does not remember anything. However I do not judge if you choose to or not to. We as parents make joint decisions on what we believe is the best and right thing to do for our son. We have an incredibly happy healthy son that is loved, cared for, protected and we are doing the best that we can do as parents. I think its great all parents have there own opinions and we should each respect each others decisions, values etc. It hurts me when people have to put other people down because they do not agree. Have your opinion people but dont put others down if they are doing what they believe is the best. |
Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 1:02pm
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This is interesting....been with both, can't recall if I have a preference.
DH wanted C done & I was like over my dead body, thank god we managed to avoid that conversation once he was born. ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com"> 
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: TheKelly
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 1:07pm
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as far as sex with a circumsized guy goes, one of my exes was circumsised, was 9months of some of the best sex of my life, and he never complained, course that could just be a testament to my greatness in bed
As far as circumsising my boy, no, not for me, and have never been asked about it either. As far as anyone else that chooses to do it, not my place to judge, so I wont ------------- 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: BessieBear
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 1:11pm
*Like* ------------- Sarah Mum to, Boy 07/2008, Girl 03/2010, Boy 05/2012, Angel 07/08/2014
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Posted By: BessieBear
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 1:14pm
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Hmmm well, I've had 2 sexual patners Dh and my ex. DH is circumcised ex wasn't. I do notice a difference. ------------- Sarah Mum to, Boy 07/2008, Girl 03/2010, Boy 05/2012, Angel 07/08/2014
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Posted By: _H_
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 1:29pm
*like!* ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: BessieBear
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 2:34pm
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HA, I'll judge, if you choose to cut up you son then you shouldn't be allowed to be parents. It's mutilation. Babies can die from having this done and if your willing to risk losing your child becasue of your own reasons then thats something you'll have to live with for the rest of your lives. ------------- Sarah Mum to, Boy 07/2008, Girl 03/2010, Boy 05/2012, Angel 07/08/2014
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Posted By: kiwikt
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 2:40pm
LIKE. I think this discussion has moved beyond opinion into judgment. I can see why some topics have become taboo to speak about because people fear being attacked and judged. Its a shame really because open discussions are how we learn. ------------- Due 14/10/11 http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: TheKelly
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 3:00pm
very true,I have better things to do with my time than judge someone for doing something that I mightn't do myself, if other people want to judge, go ahead,Im not gonna stop you. -------------
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 3:11pm
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The problem is that if you think something is fundamentally wrong then you aren't able to just say oh well do what you like it's your decision as a parent. To me circumcision isn't like some other parenting decision, it's not one of those things where I think "ok I wouldn't do that, but I don't care what you do" That's why certain topics get heated and judgemental because some of us feel strongly that it's just plain wrong and not something that should even be a parenting decision.
What I find so disappointing is that if this was on female circumcision I doubt a single person would be pro it or would say it's a parenting decision. Why is it different with boys? We have no more right to remove parts of a boys genitalia than we do a girls as far as I'm concerned. -------------
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Posted By: TheKelly
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 3:17pm
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Well there you go, I don't know much about circumcision therefore I wont judge because I don't have all the facts, its not something that I have ever had to think about,if I felt more strongly about it, then I probably would have more of an opinion.
Although personally for me it would be more of a disagree with what they are doing, I don't like to judge parents who genuinely believe they are doing the right thing for their child, I would rather judge ones who hurt them cos they just don't care. -------------
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 5:03pm
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I may be against it, but Im still not going to judge someone who has their boys done, and its NOT, NOT, my place to judge or anyone elses place to judge.
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 5:14pm
so where is the proof of children dying in nz from being circumcised? i think you have reacted from your gut without thinking. as well as making some pretty harsh judgments against fellow mums. |
Posted By: pudgy
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 5:21pm
Exactly, so well put two_boys. Would anyone here circumcise their daughter ? Bessiebear I think it's fantastic you are keeping your son intact. |
Posted By: Natalie_G
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 5:26pm
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This is a very personal topic.
For me I wouldn't have it done if I had a boy. If it was for medical reasons then I wouldn't hesitate. Im the same with leaving kids with what they are born with unless medically required to change. I do not judge anyone who has had their children circumcised, they have their reasons and no one has a right to abuse them over it. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: rorylex
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 5:33pm
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nobody makes parenting choices lightly we all do our research find out the pros and cons to everything before we do it.
b4 i had children i was against it and to a certain degree i still am. i was scared as anything with my 1st son, i had no idea what i was doing, he was my 1st, nobody was able to give me a real reason not to, but i was given a lot of reason to do it. it was not for religous reasons, or even to prevent HIV. i was looking at what would happen in a few yrs if i werent to get it done and then it was needed. it would costed 10x times the amount unless we went public it which case he would have to stay in pain til he got the appt, and he would have needed a GA, he would have been in pain and have scarring, and he would certainly remember going through it. i know more than enough people who have needed it done at older age. when my 2nd son was born he got done the same time as a friends 16yr old son. turns out 2nd son would have needed it done anyway. of those of you who are soo against to say i shouldnt have children, becoz i made an extremely imformed dession that i do not regret at all. just curious what do you think the actual procedure involves, dont give me a link to some horrible site, just tell me what you think they do? ------------- Mummy to 4 boys Samuel - 18.6.05 Rory - 15.7.06 Mason - 13.06.08 Emmett - 24.01.10 Baby #5 - cooking |
Posted By: ElfsMum
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 5:35pm
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well my two cents worth is my DH initally said are we going to get it done for our son..umm no i said..lol..he just wanted him to look like him lol..but then he thought about it and decided no..which is lucky cause normally we are 50/50 on parenting decisions but not on that one..wasn't going to happen unless for medical reasons..
I'd like to think I wouldn't judge..but unless for religious or medical reasons I just don't see why you would or how you could really.. and I won't even get into the immunisation one ..that's a whole another kettle of fish!!:) oh and on the difference my long term partner and my hubby were different and no difference.. ------------- Mum to two amazing boys! |
Posted By: BeLoved
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 5:38pm
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I would not do it, but I would also not judge someone who had either. I don't think that anyone does it to intentionally hurt or "abuse" their children. IMO parents who get on their high horse about how things should be done and judge every other parent who does not do things the "right way" need to get a life, worry about your own kids and bringing them up to be non judgemental good people!
And geez what is it about a debate that means vaxing has to come into it, talk about flogging a dead horse! ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com"> 
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Posted By: .Mel
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 5:54pm
You are so right! http://freesmileyface.net/free-food-smileys.html"> 
------------- Mr Mellow (16) Miss Attitude (8) Destructa Kid (3) 
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Posted By: Redbedrock
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 5:55pm
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Adding my two pennies here.
circumcision preventing HIV transmission as stated in a very early post Please read here http://www.circumstitions.com/HIV.html - HIV and circumcision Kinda stops that myth, hoping no one relies on that one ------------- http://www.babysfirstsite.com"> 
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Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 6:13pm
Have to agree Deb, that was quite harsh Sarah.. ------------- |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 6:42pm
I'm not too interested in adding to the main debate, because it's gone beyond discussing pros and cons and got into dead horses and flogging. But felt I should pop in to defend my post, as I was the one who bought up the HIV thing. Umm... no, this does not 'stop that myth'. It's a website expressing some concerns about the research that a particular point of view is based on. It might be worth taking into consideration when researching the topic, and you might end up agreeing with it, but that's it. Personally, I think the page you linked to has some very good points, and some pretty shoddy ones. I agree with some and cringe at others. When you look deeply into any subject that's been researched, you'll find all sorts of arguments about the validity of conclusions people have reached through their research. It's because no study is ever perfect, and people will always question the results (which is good and leads to further research). So my basic point - the page you linked to is great to read to get a point of view, add to your knowledge about the subject, and possibly make you question some things some people take as fact. But if you're going to base a decision re circumcision soley on an internet page with a funny green background, you haven't actually done any research as such. -------------
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Posted By: LJsmum
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 7:01pm
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ahhh the circumcision debate has surfaced again!
Alway's comes up every 6 or so months. Must say who ever said that it's abuse or harm are you crazy!!! It is not abuse.It is a procedure that is needed in some males. No one has died from it in NZ. really some people just like to scare others.!!! Do the research and make the decision on your values and morals and not someones opinion or someone trying to scare you. Come on people this is only one of the many many many decisions we favce as parents. You can only do what you think is right. Don't judge!  -------------  
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Posted By: Redbedrock
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 7:31pm
sorry but my main popint here was in terms of HIV education, the only away to avaoid HIV transmission is to avoid infected peoples blood and secretions, not by being circumcised, my point of relying on circumcision as an HIV preverner was the myth I referred to. I think circumcision is up to indeividuals to carry that deceision with them. As a previous HIV educator felt I had the research there ------------- http://www.babysfirstsite.com">
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Posted By: LittleBug
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 7:41pm
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I haven't had our wee boy circumcised, but I would if it was medically indicated.
Just to add fuel to the debate I recently read some preliminary research about circumcision by someone who noticed a trend that circumcised children have a lower pain threshold. However that was part of a different study, it wasn't the topic itself, so needs much more research.------------- Chloe (4 years) and Oliver (3 years). |
Posted By: kiwimum2010
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 8:42pm
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ahhh the circumcision debate has surfaced again!
Alway's comes up every 6 or so months. Must say who ever said that it's abuse or harm are you crazy!!! It is not abuse.It is a procedure that is needed in some males. No one has died from it in NZ. really some people just like to scare others.!!! Do the research and make the decision on your values and morals and not someones opinion or someone trying to scare you. Come on people this is only one of the many many many decisions we favce as parents. You can only do what you think is right. Don't judge! ===================================== TOTALLY AGREE. there are fors and againsts and the best parents do there research and make there own informed decisions. Those of you on here who are being disrespectful and in a sense abusing those who choose too circ, I am disgusted! My research was 9 months long, not a quick easy decision at all, but one that I was 100% with and my DH was when we choose to circ our DS. We are far from bad parents and I have the most amazing little boy. If you choose to circ or not, do your research and make your own decision and you should hold your head high as being outstanding parents that are doing what is best for your son. |
Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 8:46pm
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I agree 100% Kiwimum! ------------- |
Posted By: Lou1972
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 8:52pm
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Both my boys are circumsised.It's not something we did lighlty,did loads of research.
I'm shocked by some people's reactions on here.It's a very personal decision and cant believe that people are so judgemental. To the poster who said parents who do it are bad parents well,what a horrible thing to say.Talk about over reacting! |
Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 10:08pm
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*like* the last two posts
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Posted By: Nutella
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 10:30pm
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Oh my god, I must be the worst parent out there because honestly...I didn't research it at all...didn't even think about it, the only time I have ever heard of people doing it is on here...
So we didn't do it, and to be honest wouldn't see a reason for it but sure as heck don't give a rats arse about what anyone else does as long as they are not INTENTIONALLY hurting their babies. ------------- 
Oct 11
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Posted By: Babykatnz
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 10:44pm
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Nutella, i didnt research it at all with my oldest either, I was 19 at the time, had noone I could ask for advice (living out of town, so no family or friends, and no net access either) and even though his father and uncles ARE done, we chose not to simply because I didnt like the thought of it, we never even discussed it, just didnt bother getting it done. Plus I didnt know of any doctors around Waikato region that DO the procedure anyways.
While waiting to find out if this one would be a boy or girl, DP and I had serious 'discussions' (esp since my oldest had to have a medical circ immediately prior to finding out this ones gender) as to whether or not to get it done. He wanted to simply because he is, and his friends got their boys done earlier this year, but even after seeing what my DS went through, I still thought it wasnt the right choice for ME. I dont go bagging my sister out and calling her a bad mother because she has had all 4 of hers done, thats HER choice, and is nothing to do with me. ------------- Brandon - 05/12/2003
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Posted By: Plushie
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 11:20pm
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I feel like i might get flamed for this but i have to ask - HOW do you get this done? I assume you have to go searching out a specialist, that the pediatrician in the hospital won't/can't do it?
Obv if i were looking at it seriously as an option i'd find out myself while doing serious research, meeting doctors, asking questions etc. But i'm in the not my thing unless medically required camp and i'm curious, really. |
Posted By: Alice77
Date Posted: 17 December 2010 at 11:50pm
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http://kidshealth.org/parent/system/surgical/circumcision.html#
thought id add my two cents in, I cant say i know much about this topic but maybe this info might be usefull :) ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: LittleBug
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 7:44am
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Disclaimer about my above post, I wasn't meaning to put anyone down, just stating something relevant to the topic.
I have nothing against people that circumcise their kids for medical OR religious reasons. TBH I'm not sure I see a great deal of difference between someone getting their kid circumcised for religious (or other) reason and someone who gets their baby/toddlers ears pierced... they are both painful and a personal choice thing for the parents. ------------- Chloe (4 years) and Oliver (3 years). |
Posted By: MuppetsMama
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 9:03am
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Wow bessiebear, that was pretty harsh!
My DH and all his family are circumsised, and im really interested in the sensation factor...seems like we tick a lot of boxes for that having an effect on us...has anyone here had both types of partners (for a considerable amount of time) and noticed a difference between the two? bit of a personal question i know but hey. |
Posted By: Keleho
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 10:43am
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DH is circumsised and my ex (who I was with for 3 odd years) wasnt. I didnt notice much of a difference (as far as the feel of it - sorry TMI but you asked haha) but I do think DH is perhaps a bit cleaner - that may be down to the individual himself, not whether he is snipped or not.
We have talked about if we would or wouldnt a few times (since as I say, DH is) but have decided we likely wouldnt. DH initially wanted to for two reasons: he is, and he feels it is cleaner BUT after discussing the pros and cons, he changed his mind. Mostly as it is causing unnecessary pain, cost and mucking around involved and because he remembers that he was looked at as 'different' at school and doesnt want that for our sons especially as it is even more uncommon nowadays. In saying that, if it was medically necessary, I wouldnt hesitate just as I would do any other procedure if it was necessary. I dont think its anyones place to judge another parent for doing something that they believe in - be that for religious reasons or otherwise. Perhaps if it was accepted a bit more those that did need to would not have as high a risk of a botched job. My sister works in peadiatrics and mentioned that its often those who have used a friend of the family or the like (rather than a medical professional in a hospital) to carry out the procedure that have problems. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Babykatnz
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 11:23am
At the risk of sounding rather coarse... its a lot easier to give a guy a BJ if he IS done, but I wouldnt know about loss of sensation, the guy I (wont say went OUT with as we were not in a relationship... just regular friends... with benefits  ) slept with for a while wasnt done and I hated the feeling of loose skin in my mouth, but he also liked it rather 'rough', whereas DP is done and isnt nearly as rough... prob wayyy TMI, but meh.
These days Bowie, you're best to ask around friends who have had boys and gotten them done to fins out where and who did it, then go talk to that medical proffessional. Alternatively ask your GP, they are bound to know of doctor/s who do the procedure, and are not allowed to tell you that you cant get it done, they can just refuse to do the procedure themselves. ------------- Brandon - 05/12/2003
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Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 12:04pm
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lol Ive been with both and I dont notice the difference!!! ------------- |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 12:16pm
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I was just reading this article, and couldn't help but think of this thread...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10695022 - These kind of parents are the ones who shouldn't be allowed children . No matter where any of us stand on this issue, I'm pretty sure we're all making the choices we make with our children's best interests at heart, unlike these monsters. -------------
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 12:36pm
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That article absolutely disgusted me! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 12:44pm
| hopes that has nothing to do with this thread and completely irrelevant! |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 12:54pm
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Sorry, Bizzy, I didn't mean to offend you. I thought it was relevant because people are tearing strips off each other and saying things like 'people who circumcise kids don't deserve to be parents'. I was just trying to say that people who care about their kids do deserve to be parents, whether they circumcise them or not, and pointing out a couple who make a slight contrast to everyone here, no matter what side they're on.
I do see what you mean, though, it's not exactly circumcision-related. -------------
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Posted By: nicandtyler
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 2:37pm
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oh my gosh! that article was HORRIBLE! those...im reluctant to say people...or animals for that matter, those things should not have name suppression, they don't deserve any protection! omg that poor poor poor little girl, that breaks my heart ------------- http://lilypie.com">
http://lilypie.com">
April '11
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Posted By: kiwimum2010
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 2:42pm
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Great to see some nice comments now and people respecting each others decisions and rights. We here I believe are all good parents and hence we are passionate about things such as to circ or not. However lets continue to all be adults and respectfull of parents decisions and opinions if we do this in the best interests.
A follow on note, anyone who is thinking of finding out more and wants to speak to doctor etc who do do circ I am happy to PM info I used and doctors details. The doctor we used was pro it, however is also my sisters doctor and she chose not to circ her 2 sons and the doctor respected fully there decision. |
Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 2:51pm
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Bizz, I think hopes was just saying that THOSE are the type of people that dont deserve to be parents, as some hurtful things were said in this thread about parents who circumsize their boys, ie, that they dont deserve to parents, which is nasty and way off. ------------- |
Posted By: Mucky_Tiger
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 3:48pm
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heres quite a good article about circumcision and incidence with herpes http://www.stat.auckland.ac.nz/~iase/publications/isi56/IPM42_Harraway.pdf - here
(and it also mentions iron absorption in BF vs FF babies) |
Posted By: Happy lady
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 5:18pm
Bessie Bear what would happen if your child needed a medical related circumcision? Would this still be mutilating your child? I think we all make choices that we think best for our children and whether we do or dont circumsise should not determine if we should be allowed to have children. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 5:47pm
I agree, and if your boy needed it done would you let him suffer on/off with pain or just get it done and not have the pain iygwim? Each to their own imo, who are we to judge really. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: TheKelly
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 7:01pm
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Heh heh, 5 pages....been a while since a good ol Oh Baby debate -------------
http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Shezamumof3
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 7:25pm
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OT but kelly, nooooooooooooooooooooo 32 weeks!?? Nooooooooo you cant be!! ------------- |
Posted By: Natalie_G
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 7:26pm
I nearly threw up! How DARE they get name suppression! They should be subjected to the same abuse their child was!!!!! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: _H_
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 7:41pm
Same! they only look different
its interesting reading that some males want to have it done to their DS just because they are done. I personally dont think its right just to do something because you want them to be like you! like any big decision you need to do your own research on it and work out the pro/cons Kelly are you going to start singing yet? ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: jazzy
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 8:55pm
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It was a common thing to do years ago & it was done at birth. Now days you have to pay to have it done & it serves no real purpose but cosmetic.
Unless there is a medical reason that requires it to be done then there is no point in doing it. Totally unnecessary. In regards to better sex whether he is circumcised or not it is down to his abilities
It is not common where my DH comes from & we never considered it for our boys, but before I meet him I always thought if I had a boy I would have it done as my boyfriends had been....never fell pg before DH.... hmm wonder what the pg hit rate is with circumcised vs not
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Posted By: mummyofprinces
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 9:55pm
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DH wanted to get Jake done because he thought he would be the odd one out and be made fun of in the locker room... I told him it was his decision but I wanted him to research it first and give me 5 good reasons.
He came back with none, as soon as learnt how its not common place he didnt want to do it anymore, might have been because I told him he had to find the person to do it and he would be taking him on his own. I wanted nothing to do with it. IMO it is mutilation if performed for non-medical reasons and I just dont see any pro's to it whatsoever. But as always its YOUR decision nobody elses and to those being ever so righteous, lets hope you never have to get down off your soapbox... it will be a long fall! And for those of you who are planning to teach your boy to clean it.. please discuss this with a medical professional if you have not already. Our paed reeled at the suggestion of doing anything other than just normal external washing with soap. He was adamant that was all that was necessary and that making a boy peel it back to clean was cruel and unnceccesary... so just thought I would chuck that out there. As others have said, its there to keep germs out, peeling it back will expose germs which defeats the purpose of the cleaning iygwim. -------------   
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Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 10:19pm
| great points about the cleaning melnel! |
Posted By: MamaT
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 11:02pm
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Good to know about the cleaning, thanks Mel
DH was of the generation where it was commonplace to be circ at birth, his brother, 4 years younger isn't done as by then it just wasn't done anymore. We discussed it briefly when we discovered we were expecting a boy, but DH wasn't keen and I'd never thought of having it done so that was the end of that. If it was medically required I wouldn't hesitate though. -------------  
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Posted By: Happy lady
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 11:11pm
I agree... something I never knew!! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Babykatnz
Date Posted: 18 December 2010 at 11:11pm
What i didnt know (I was only ever told NOT to pull it back!) was that at around the age of 5/6 years it should start to be able to open up and come away from the tip... if I HAD known, then I wouldnt have assumed DS's pain while urinating was a UTI. Now that the skin is gone... he keeps playing with it... I dont think the fascination with seeing whats been hiding under the skin for so long has quite worn off yet 
Bessiebear, thats a really harsh statement to make given that you yourself have been put in the position of having to consider a medical circumcision recently. Even prior to having to make this decision a few months ago, I would NEVER have said something like that, its not neglect, its not mutilation, it is something that has been around for hundreds of years, and is a common part of some cultures. Would you call ALL jewish parents horrible parents who dont deserve to have kids?! Just because I chose NOT to have it done when my son was born, doesnt mean I think those who do get it done 'dont deserve to be parents'. ------------- Brandon - 05/12/2003
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Posted By: WestiesGirl
Date Posted: 19 December 2010 at 12:51am
Good point Mel. I think I read some where, and correct me if Im wrong, you dont need to do anything with it until your boy is comfortable with it and doing it himself. Which can even be right up to puberty age. ------------- Our Angel July 08 Gone but not forgotten
And to complete our family, our princess has arrived
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Posted By: cuppatea
Date Posted: 19 December 2010 at 9:45am
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When they are babies it's attached so if you try to pull it back you can do them some serious damage. You shouldn't teach them about cleaning underneath until they have found that it comes back.
I don't think bessiebear was saying she wouldn't do it for medical reasons, I dont' think anyone said they wouldn't even if it was medically indicated that would be ridiculous. It was doing it for non medical reasons (or just in case it's medically needed later on) that some of us don't think should be up to parental choice. No one answered about the female circumcision, guess everyone thinks that's wrong, but it's not wrong to do it to a boy, bit of a double standard their isnt' it? -------------
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