Shots of Piri Weepu bottle-feeding banned
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Topic: Shots of Piri Weepu bottle-feeding banned
Posted By: JadeC
Subject: Shots of Piri Weepu bottle-feeding banned
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 11:27am
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What do you think?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783554 - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10783554 Is it fair to ban shots of Piri Weepu bottle-feeding his baby? Images of All Black hero Piri Weepu bottle-feeding his baby have been cut after protests by breastfeeding crusaders. La Leche League, a pro-breastfeeding organisation, has taken offence from a few seconds of film showing the All Black tenderly feeding a bottle of milk to daughter Taylor. The brief scene has been cut from an anti-smoking ad, due to complaints from the league. One email said: "The damage that this shot of a celebrity All Black will do to breastfeeding in New Zealand Aotearoa will be significant." Karen Guilliland, chief executive officer of the College of Midwives, said her organisation opposed the ad too. "We just figured that Piri Weepu was so loved that whatever he did would carry a huge weight." Have these organisations overreacted, or have they made a valid point? Should the images of Piri Weepu bottle-feeding his baby have been removed? Send us Your Views. -------------------- I can't decide where I fit on this! I am very pro-breastfeeding, or maybe just pro-normalising breastfeeding, so I can see the LLL's point I guess. But man, it does seem weird to cut out such a sweet image of him parenting his child. ------------- http://pregnancy.baby-gaga.com/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: SethsMama
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 11:48am
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I think it's an over-reaction.
My DH bottle fed DS with my breast milk. Just because it's a bottle doesn't mean it's formula. I don't know any woman that would choose to not breast feed because Piri Weepu bottle fed. Seems like a big jump to make. ------------- 
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Posted By: BugTeeny
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 12:16pm
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I agree with SethsMama.
Firstly, I breastfed both my kids for 12 and 14 months until they self-weaned. I also did formula top-ups for DS for the last few months of BF'ing. Just to show you where I am on the BF vs FF debate (ie: I don't give toss how you feed your child. Just feed them  ).
My DH often bottle-fed my kids EBM and formula. It was great bonding time for them. Getting back to the case in point. TOTAL over reaction. Women KNOW that Breast Is Best. It's shoved in your face when you go into hospital to have your baby - just in case they didn't notice their own boobs leaking and getting engorged within days of delivery. It's the natural thing to do. I understand the importance of the campaign for breastfeeding. But I also understand the importance of feeding your child. If Piri Weepu (shirtless to boot!) wants to help his partner by taking over some of the responsibility of feeding their daughter, let him! If he'll spur more guys on to help their partners with babycare, whether it's EBM or formula in that bottle, then let him be in the ad FFS. *want to make more coherant/thought out points, but Miss 4 is bugging me to play. ------------- 
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Posted By: snugglebug
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 12:25pm
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As if Piri Weepu is that much of a celebrity people would do everything he does. If someone was that impressionable I'd say they have bigger problems!! Its just another example of the breast is best campaign being rammed down people's throats. I don't think most people would notice he was feeding her with a bottle considering it was not important in the ad, let alone go oh right that settles it I'm going to bottle feed my baby.
To be clear, I support breastfeeding, I just don't support it being put to people in a way that makes them feel guilty and failures if it doesn't work out. And I support choice and support for mothers however they choose feed their babies. This is getting so out of hand!!! ------------- Me 28, DH 29 DS born 20 Nov 2010 (4 years old) #2 due October 7 http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: snugglebug
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 12:26pm
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I also think its great showing someone like Piri Weepu feeding with a bottle- shows that sometimes even All Blacks wives can possibly have trouble with feeding/choose to let their partner help with the feeding and that's OK. ------------- Me 28, DH 29 DS born 20 Nov 2010 (4 years old) #2 due October 7 http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 12:33pm
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Big over reaction......A man does not have breasts that can feed a baby! If it was one of the netballers or another female celeb, then fair call but for christs sake a man feeding a baby, how else is he going to do it!!! ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com"> 
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: frangipanigirl
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 1:02pm
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I totally agree with you AandCsmum. i think people should take the positive spin on it and say wow look at Piri helping to care for his children and hope that it will spur on more dads to be hands on with their children!
Fathers need positive role models too and who better than a manly All Black to prove its ok to be hands on!  ------------- 1st round IVF 7 Eggs, 6 fertilised, 1 transferred with 5 on ice! http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: AandCsmum
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 1:14pm
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EXACTLY!!!
I haven't even read the article cause I know it'll piss me off lol ------------- Kel http://lilypie.com">
A = 01.02.04 & C = 16.01.09 & G = 30.03.12 |
Posted By: kellie
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 1:35pm
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It's just media spun BS.
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Posted By: fairy1
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 2:07pm
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I agree with everyone else, such an over reaction. Funny thing, this article has brought more attention to Piri bottle feeding his baby than the add would have and everyone fully supports him (from the comments I read anyway) and not the midwifery council or LLL. Probably not the reaction tey wanted/needed. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: crafty1
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 2:31pm
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It's a total load of bollocks. Families should be able to choose how they feed their baby, it was a 6mo baby and who knows the background. What was Piri going to do - BF the baby!! Nice to see a man nurturing his bub and being involved in feeding i say. Especially a cute topless man.
The bf nazis have too much say in NZ. I bf my boys cos it was easy, but it is not that way for everyone and why shouldn't we acknowledge that and support all people to make the best decision for their family and well being. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: Booski
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 3:28pm
I think this debacle says more about the very poor state of NZ media  Had LLL come out and started a campaign to ban the scene then yeah I'd get the uproar, but LLL were asked (along with other bf groups) by the makers of the ad for their thoughts. It was a consultation which happens in advertising (and tv) all the time and often results in scenes being cut for one reason or another - no big deal. I'm seriously wondering what NZ Herald's deal is, they have that awful motherhood opinion piece writer (sorry I forgot her name) and now they twist a completely normal occurrence and have instigated (not outright sure, but really what did they think the reaction was going to be when they worded the article like that?) a hate campaign against an organisation who is all about supporting mums  ------------- 
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Posted By: flakesitchyfeet
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 4:42pm
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Who said the milk wasn't expressed?
I hate it. Rude, Judgemental, and Assuming. -------------  http://lilypie.com"> |
Posted By: Candkids
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 7:20pm
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its totally rediculas! how do they know it wasnt expressed? and if it was expressed are they now saying that breast milk in a bottle isnt ok? does it have to be straight from the breast or something?
i think its great having a man who is a nz rep in sport on tv feeding their baby, that says to people watching see any guy can help out and feed their baby. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">  DD 10.5yrs DS 6yrs DS 11mths 5 little angles watching from above |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 7:32pm
AMEN!!! This kind of things get me hot under the collar, to be honest. What happened was that the people making the add consulted LLL, who had an opinion. Whether we agree with it or not isn't a major in my mind - they were consulted, they let the people making the add know, and the people making the add thought it was worth taking into consideration. Not a group of people running round kicking up unnecessary fuss, no 'breastapo', just a group of people asked for their opinion who gave it. But the media takes it and sensationalises it and gets everyone hot under the collar. Gah. (I don't have any issue seeing bottlefeeding in something like that, and it wouldn't affect the fact I breastfeed. But I can totally see LL's opinion, and hardly thing they should be dragged over the coals for giving it when asked )-------------   
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Booski wrote:Posted By: snugglebug
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 8:19pm
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I agree the media have sensationalised this- but it wouldn't stir people up so much if it wasn't for the much bigger issue about breast vs bottle feeding that already exists and how people can be made to feel about it. ------------- Me 28, DH 29 DS born 20 Nov 2010 (4 years old) #2 due October 7 http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Looey85
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 9:09pm
I've been saying this allllll afternoon since I read the article! Well said Booski! |
Posted By: Hayz001
Date Posted: 05 February 2012 at 11:52pm
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I think you're all missing the point here - the point is not whether it is expressed breastmilk, or if his daughter's mother can not breastfeed, but about the implicit endorsement of bottle feeding. Before all bottle feeding mamas jump up and down about how there's nothing wrong with bottle feeding etc etc - that's not the point. We all KNOW that breast milk is unquestionably better for babies than bottle feeding (and no, i'm not trying to make anyone feel guilty, but that's a fact, and we all know it), and as such, society should be doing all it can to promote it. In Piri Weepu's ethnic demographic, breastfeeding rates are low, and someone with such status as him implicitly endorsing bottle feeding has a negative impact on the promotion of breastfeeding amongst this demographic (however subtle or subconscious this maybe). ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: My3Sons
Date Posted: 06 February 2012 at 10:49am
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total overreaction and PC gone mad in my opinion!! ------------- Mum to Mr 10, Mr 6 and Mr 4 
 
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Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 06 February 2012 at 5:03pm
Exactly! I love this response to the whole debacle: http://thenaturalparent.co.nz/blog/?p=464 - One bloggers response ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 10:37am
WELL SAID!!!! The govt run a massive BFing campaign, so seems silly in another govt run campaign (anti-smoking) to have someone bottle feeding as it directly contradicts another of their campaigns... It's like having someone in the background of a BFing campaign having a smoke and then saying who cares the ad is for BFing not anti-smoking
------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 11:30am
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What I can't believe is how strongly people are feeling about this I know it is a very touchy topic, but I just can't get that worked up about it myself. While I think it's the media making a stroy out of not-much-really and LLL and Plunket haven't done anything wrong (and so am definitely on that side of the fence as far as my own opinions go), I can see how some people are worried we're being a bit too PC or are hurt because they feel like their method of feeding is being put in a negative light. I don't feel any need to do any of the name-calling I've seen lots of people on both sides doing. Seriously! -------------
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Posted By: LuckyRed
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 11:42am
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Sorry, ever so slightly off topic, but can anyone give me some unbiased info to read on breast vs formula feeding? I'm finding this topic interesting as I would definitely like to breast feed if I can but if I can't is formula really that bad? We seem to be brainwashed in this country that formula is evil and to avoid it at all costs.
My SIL in the UK has just had her first baby and is exclusively formula feeding (by choice) and everyone over there seems to think it's normal - there doesn't seem to be that huge breastfeeding promotion that there is here. Seeing I'm quite uninformed on the whole thing (apart from to spout "breast is best" like a robot  ) I'd like some unbiased reading material if possible. Thx.-------------  
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 12:13pm
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Ooh, there should be plenty. Bottle-feeding is by no means the work of the devil, though It's just that it's better if all other things are equal. And sometimes they are (we've had no real issues) and sometimes they're not (lots of people would have killed to breastfeed but couldn't). I'll see if I can find you some links. -------------
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Posted By: blessedmama
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 12:43pm
| Hopes I completely agree. I've been shocked at some of the outbursts against LLL I've seen on Facebook this morning. I'm quite interested in the whole breast / bottle issue in NZ and have read quite a bit about it having bottle fed both my babies. The Piri Weepu ad and the fuss being made in the media is not something I've found that interesting but the response from some individuals (I'm not meaning on here as I haven't read everyone's comments) seems a bit ridiculous to me. |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 1:00pm
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http://www.everybody.co.nz/page-9d8e9e0b-4c60-47c8-b6c9-5cbafa3c0d8b.aspx - This is a pretty good summary, LuckyRed. It doesn't give sources for the facts (eg it says "breastfeeding reduces the risk of allergies" but doesn't give links to the research behind that) but I'm comfortable that that research does exist. Were you looking for something like that, or something more in-depth? If you are, then http://whqlibdoc.who.int/publications/2009/9789241597494_eng.pdf - this document by the WHO might be helpful
Glad someone agrees with me, blessedmama -------------
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Posted By: LuckyRed
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 1:09pm
Thanks Hopes  -------------
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 1:21pm
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LR when I was utd my opinion was if I could BF I would, if not - no big deal there is formula! My grandma and mum couldn't BF. My grandma's milk dried up by 4 weeks and my mums by 3mo. So I thought at least it won't be the end of the world if that happens to me. However I sat on the couch pretty much 24/7 either expressing or feeding for the first 4 weeks and feeding 2 hourly for the first 6ish months. I never had any issues so didn't need formula but my mum and grandma hadn't done that and imo (shoot me now if you must) a lot of people seem to want to rush and do other things but imo feeding was a really lovely quiet time and took a lot of patience. Just sitting and feeding on demand to build supply.
Anyway long story short I actually asked my MW about bottle feeding and with all the BFing promotion she said she couldn't give me any information and most of the information available was for FF older babies. At the end of the day it's up to you what you do. I am really glad I gave BFing a go, we made it to 23mo. Everyone told me horror stories - it hurts, boobs sag, etc. But I still gave it a go and I didn't have any issues. This probably doesn't help you though. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 1:25pm
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I did find this http://www.kiwifamilies.co.nz/Topics/Babies/Feeding-Your-Baby/Breast-vs-Bottle.html - link . One thing that I liked about BFing was it was quick... At 3am I just sat on the couch and got straight to it. No mucking around with bottles, heating etc. Could be back to bed in 5 minutes. (In response to the it can be tiring BF disadvantage).
http://www.nutriciababy.co.nz/main/nutrition/babies_0-6_months.html - This may be helpful. It's got info on BFing as well as baby/toddler nutrition and a bit on FF. http://www.kiwifamilies.co.nz/Topics/Babies/Feeding-Your-Baby/Bottle+feeding.html - FF Info on FF. http://www.huggies.co.nz/baby-care/formula - More info on FF. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: crafty1
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 2:53pm
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hopes, i think the problem is that a lot of organisations quote research saying "bf leads to abc", but when you look at the research that is not necessarily what it does say.
You have to evaluate the quality and outcomes of the quoted research to make a true judgement. Not sure where anyone has done this. My understanding of it is that the differences are there but quite mild and any other factors such as smoking, low socio-economic upbringing etc have much larger effects than bf. Significantly higher proportions of European mums exclusively formula feed and they often have better outcomes for most health indices than us. And that research is done by independent international organisations, not ones with a acknowledged bias. My issue is with the pressure on kiwi mums and the impact that has on those who can't feed. And no i did not formula feed and bf my boys for 1 year each, so that is not my bias. I just really don't like seeing something pushed down people's throats especially if it is misinformation. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: T_Rex
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 7:12pm
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I looked into 2 aspects of health when preggers with #2 (and I did my research by reading medical journals I can access at work, not just jo-bloggs internet sites).
The first one was ear infections cos DD1's been to hell and back with those. For me, one of the risk factors that I could control were that breastfeeding exclusively for 4 months or more was associated with a 40% reduction in ear infections in the first 2 (I think?) years. I know it's a generalisation and not a guarantee, but MAN could DD1 and I have done with a 40% reduction in her ear infections!! So that on it's own was worth it for me. The other factor that I have some control over is daycare - so we are thinking about what to do about that one. There were other factors too, of course, but they weren't ones that I could/would change either way. The other issue for me was SIDS - just cos someone I know lost a baby to SIDS while I was pregnant so of course I worried! No, BF didn't rate as highly as a smokefree environment when it came to reducing the risk of SIDS, but a smokefree environment is a given for me anyway; whereas BF was something I could DO to reduce the risk. Does that make sense? I just want to add to the silly media debacle, that when I was struggling with BF my babies (which happened twice, different reasons for different babies) I went to LLL for help and they were wonderful. They suggested things I could do to make continuing to breastfeed easy and pleasant for both baby and I. They never preached that I must continue at all, just if I wanted to, here were some ideas how. If I'd have preferred to switch to formula, you know what, I could have. They certainly wouldn't have come after over it! I'm really disappointed to see how uninformed people are at their role. If you don't want their help, don't call them! Easy. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: pudgy
Date Posted: 07 February 2012 at 7:34pm
I recommend going to a LLL meeting while you are still pregnant. They can provide you with a load of information and about how breastfeeding works. supply/demand how baby will feed frequently and it's normal, how growth spurts work etc etc That will provide you with a good base of information and a really good idea of what to expect. I thin the greatest issue is lack of knowledge about how breastfeeding works and about having realistic expectations ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: HoneybunsMa
Date Posted: 08 February 2012 at 9:12pm
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I think this is a great example of media spin and that communications students should study it I am pro bfing but above all am pro baby feeding I however had it easy when bfing with DD. As has been said earlier LLL was approached for their opinions on the ad, they didn't see the ad and think heck lets jump on the bottle bashing band wagon, they expressed their concerns which IMO are valid, its a health ad, you can't really have conflicting thing in health ads, if it was a toilet paper commercial completely different.
Why or how the media even got wind of the story is something that needs to be questioned, and why they think that it was even worthy to report on, and why everyone feels the need to debate it and get really upset about it is beyond me. I know that the breast is best thing is very upsetting and an emotional topic for some who struggled with it, but they are only jumping on the fact that LLL made comments not what they said, in the context of what they said and that they were APPROACHED it didn't come out of no where. Obviously human breast milk is best for humans, as cow milk is best for cows, and goats best for goats so on and so forth.. And prior to formula it was an actual job to be a wet nurse, and the rich and royalty often employed someone, but then Henry VIII had someone wipe his butt so now that formual is widely available it is used, instead of the other alternative of the breast milk of another woman who would let your child suckle at their breast. In todays society that would make most woman uncomfortable
ETA that I don't think images of Piri Weepu would change many peoples opinions on bottle feeding, or make anyone think that they shouldn't breast feed as most people that look up to Piri Weepu would be 7yr-20+ males not your average mother. A teen mum maybe but still not that likely, they would probably lust after him more then look up to him  ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: Aroha11
Date Posted: 09 February 2012 at 9:32am
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I think it is a total over reaction.
Hayz001 - I know you said not to jump up and down but I am going to. From someone who was unable to bf so I was expressing and formula topping up, bottle was the only way our baby was able to get feed. I think it is important to support anyone who has a baby and whatever way they decide to feed them as long as they are providing their child with love and a caring environment that is what we should be caring about. Sorry to rant. I think Piri is showing as a man you are able to help out and it is great if you can in anyway as many guys feel a little left out in the beginning. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 09 February 2012 at 9:49am
This is a really great piece of advice! A lot of people don't seem to actually think about how demanding it can be at first and I think that puts a lot of people off! ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: snugglebug
Date Posted: 09 February 2012 at 10:52pm
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The one thing that slightly confuses me when people say that cows milk is for cows and human milk is for babies, is why do we find it so normal to drink cows milk and cows milk products from a certain age? It may seem like a dumb thing to say but when I hear that I always wonder at what point does a person become not part of that comparison anymore, and the cows milk becomes ok for humans?
What I don't like about the whole breast vs bottle thing is that *some people*, not exclusively from any organisation, make out like formula is really unhealthy/fattening/bad/poisonous for babies. In my opinion, it is none of those things, there are some pretty strict regulations on what it has to have in it nutrients wise, it's just that of course, breast milk with its natural properties for immunity, health etc is *better* but formula is not *bad*. That's what I get really hung up on most of all. That because of my preconceived notions of formula, based solely on what I had heard as I never thought about it much before becoming pregnant, just kind of subconciously absorbed things from people I guess, was that formula was really bad for babies... it took me a long while to get my head around the fact when I started formula feeding that it wasn't actually unhealthy for him, it was just that breastmilk was better but that the gap was not as wide as people would have you believe. With that in mind that's why I got upset about the Piri Weepu thing. Because I don't like the idea of saying that formula feeding is a bad health message. It's just not as good a health message to give as breastfeeding. Just to add another perspective. Disclaimer: I believe in breastfeeding but I don't believe in guilt with bottle feeding if breastfeeding doesn't work out ------------- Me 28, DH 29 DS born 20 Nov 2010 (4 years old) #2 due October 7 http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Stoked
Date Posted: 10 February 2012 at 7:49am
It is normal over there. The UK has one of the lowest breastfeeding rates in the Western World, despite a push towards breastfeeding. Maybe it's a cultural thing? In urbanised parts of the continent of Africa, breastfeeding is often seen to be backwards and something that the poor and uneducated do. Breastfeeding can be difficult for some people, I think that is part of the reason why it is such an emotive topic. (I think I used the right word there - baby brain, early in the morning and having my 1 year old drink my coffee doesn't help with thinking!) ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">  http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 10 February 2012 at 9:16am
I totally agree, as I'm sure most people do regardless of whether they BF or FF! It must be very hard to deal with being forced bottle feed when you want to BF... and you did want to BF but circumstances were beyond your control right? I am assuming you wanted to BF as we know that, although formula is fine, breast milk is designed for baby and therefore, nutritionally superior? However, just because we understand and can weigh up such benefits, make informed decisions and not be influenced by images we see in the media, it does not mean everyone else in our population is capable of this. I find it infuriating that this has been turned into BFing vs FFing debate, as that is not the issue! The issue IMO is that this particular image in the smokefree ad was contradicting another HUGE govt campaign - BFing... and this image *could* influence some of those people who are less cognitively able. It always seems so short sighted/ignorant to me when people suggest that nobody would be influenced by such images - when there are plenty of people in our communities who would be by no fault of their own.. ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: Pixi
Date Posted: 10 February 2012 at 5:14pm
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To the many comments,
Its a very personal thing and obviously may variables etc, so simply be at Peace with the fact babies in NZ are been fed, and not neglected and unloved. I think there are more worries NZ such as abuse and awful neglect of babies and the young thats more concern. ( Edited to add comment). Giving a bottle also can be seen as giving "time out and much needed Rest "for a Mum, as so many stress out and sleep deprived. Your boobs are your boobs, full stop. I would simply ignore others, as not their biz |
Posted By: KatieD
Date Posted: 11 February 2012 at 7:22pm
Oh yes there is!! (I had two babies in UK). And because there are more people over there, it's 20-fold what you get here!!! It felt to me like anyone was qualified to tell you that you should breastfeed. From the GP receptionist to the lady at the post office counter. I read some of the cruelest comments on parenting forums in their breast v bottle discussions. I have witnessed mothers so stressed by the pressure to breast feed that I reckon their PND was as a result of the bullying from BF 'fanatics'. Women can be informed, and then supported in making their own decision. Live and let live surely? |
Posted By: mumtooboys
Date Posted: 11 February 2012 at 7:43pm
I was just there last year for 5 weeks and I didn't see ONE thing promoting bf in the entire time I was there; I would have seen at least 5 ads on telly and those ads on bus shelters, in malls etc in the same amount of time here. I have also had a baby in the UK and I can tell you when he was born that bf wasn't exactly the be all end all..in fact I got told off for wanting to continue to bf even though we hit a couple of snags in the first 3 weeks. I got told by soooo many people, including the health professionals who were supposed to tell me to just bf, that formula is "just as good" and a "top-up won't hurt" when they knew I wanted to bf. If "won't hurt" means that baby is fully ff in the day by a few months old and prematurely weans from bf altogether at 9 months old when that was NOT what I wanted then yep, it didn't hurt. 
I essentially got ZERO support to bf, even though I repeated over and over and over again that's what I wanted to do and wanted help to do it. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: KatieD
Date Posted: 11 February 2012 at 8:02pm
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Blimey things must have changed in the last 6 years
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Posted By: Rolly
Date Posted: 15 February 2012 at 8:01pm
The bottle was formula because his daughter is allergic to breastmilk. Personally, I think it's wonderful that Piri is bottle feeding his daughter whether it is bm or formula. It's an opportunity for him and his daughter to have a close nurturing experience and build a close bond together. Why does it have to be left all to the mother. Dad's are allowed to have close bonding time with their children. Breastmilk (not breast) is best - yes - unless you have a child who is allergic to it and who wants a screaming child for a year because we are insisting it drinks bm. Isn't that child abuse? |
Posted By: Rolly
Date Posted: 15 February 2012 at 8:11pm
I have a friend who bf for 2 years. She was constantly sick, tired, low in iron. She had nothing left to give her daughter as bm sucked every piece of goodness out of her. It's a known fact that all the goody vits and mins in a mum's body is transferred to her bm and leaves Mum depleted. How can any one say that the bm that her DD was getting after two years was any good? Formula has all the goodies like a multivitamin in it. However, bm (when it's good bm) is best. As for bf, it doesn't matter how the child gets it, as long as they are getting it. Two women in my coffee group bf their children exclusively. The only two children to develop allergies were these two children. They were both severe anaphylaxis. My DS was allergic to my foremilk. For 9 months, I expressed every feed and threw away the foremilk. But because I had to throw away some of my bm, I never quite had enough bm for my DS. I topped him up with formula. I had no choice. The formula was like a liquid vitamin pill. He does not have any allergies. He's never has any bad colds. He's the fittest child in the coffee group. I think a bit of both (bm and formula) is good for the child and helps mum not completely deplete herself of every thing good in her body to the point where she is continuously sick. |
Posted By: pudgy
Date Posted: 15 February 2012 at 9:10pm
If you read the information and articles correctly you'll see his daughter was actually allergic to dairy not breastmilk. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: pudgy
Date Posted: 15 February 2012 at 9:16pm
If you eat a proper diet and make sure you're eating healthy, drinking enough water and making sure you are getting enough rest, there should be no reason you're getting ill or having you iron/minerals/vitamins depleted. It's a known fact ? Can you please link me to that information/research . I've not heard that one before. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: pudgy
Date Posted: 16 February 2012 at 8:38am
I'm sorry but your information is incorrect. All Bm is the same and the only thing that changes during a feed is the fat content. . Please see this link for the information. http://thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot.co.nz/2011/05/foremilk-and-hindmilk-in-quest-of.html - Breastmilk composition I don't know where/who told you that was the case. but it sounds like you might have had a fore/hindmilk imbalance where baby gets a sore tummy and frothy green poos. I'm not posting this to get at you but to rectify your incorrect info. Especially after this whole saga there is a plethora of misinformation around most of it horribly wrong and I hate to think a perspective mother reading this then thinking it could happen. Please if you are pregnant and want to breastfeed do yourself and baby a favour and research. Gather all the information you can so you are aware of the realities of breastfeeding, how it works, make a plan for dealing with any difficulties. Breastmilk is the normal , natural food for baby. Anything else is substandard. Research proves this. I'll see if I can dig up some informative links about breastfeeding if anyone wants to have a look ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Aroha11
Date Posted: 16 February 2012 at 9:22am
Hmm substandard - I don't think this is the correct term! Although research shows the breastmilk is the best there are some cases where formula is better therefore NOT substandard. If a baby is having a reaction, can't be provided sufficient milk, can't latch properly and numerous other reasons then formula is the best source of nourishment for them. ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: pudgy
Date Posted: 16 February 2012 at 10:43am
With respect and talking facts rather than emotions, even if baby is unable to be breastfed , formula is still substandard to breastmilk. Obviously it serves a purpose and in some cases is entirely necessary, but it is still substandard. I would argue that the next best source of nourishment other than the mothers milk, would be donated breastmilk. There are means and ways of managing allergies and reactions, such as elimination diets. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 16 February 2012 at 11:55am
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I think it's just the way the word makes people feel. Like they're giving their baby substandard care or something. Not that that's what you were saying at all
Rolly, I 100% support women who choose (or end up having to) to bottlefeed, I've always had a 'you parent your kids your way, and I'll parent my kids my way' attitude. But your facts are waaaay wrong, sorry. I don't want to be mean about it, but they really are. It sounds like maybe you've had some bad advice from someone on the topic in general? -------------
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Posted By: Aroha11
Date Posted: 16 February 2012 at 1:18pm
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Exactly Hopes on all counts!!
Well peace has happened upon my house and I am off to enjoy a cuppa (a bit of useless info but thought I would share )------------- http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: pudgy
Date Posted: 16 February 2012 at 2:18pm
It totally wasn't what I was saying That's why I added the little disclaimer. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: LuckyRed
Date Posted: 16 February 2012 at 4:13pm
I've never heard of this before, none of my friends or family have got sick from breastfeeding. Surely if that was the case we would have a huge number of sick mothers on our hands and breastfeeding wouldn't be so highly subscribed to. It sounds to me like your friend more likely had a medical condition? -------------
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Posted By: Mattsmum
Date Posted: 17 February 2012 at 10:13pm
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The day my daughter was born she had trouble feeding and her blood sugars were falling. The hospital midwife told me my bbs were too big to feed and I should give her a bottle. I refused because my son and husband have dairy allergies and battled on trying to feed. She then told me the pediatrician thought I was being unreasonable and I should give my baby formula. I ended up insisting to talk to the pediatrician and they came up with an alternative (a glucose drip) I fed that baby for 14 months.
It would appear that even in the so called "pro bf" New Zealand hospitals there are some midwives who aren't prepared to support it. ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: High9
Date Posted: 19 February 2012 at 10:23am
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@ Rolly. His daughter isn't allergic to BM... She is allergic to dairy. There is a very big difference and you can BF a baby with allergies... ------------- http://lilypie.com">
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