Permanent marking/paint at daycare
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Topic: Permanent marking/paint at daycare
Posted By: Bky
Subject: Permanent marking/paint at daycare
Date Posted: 10 June 2012 at 9:50am
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Lately my DD has been coming home from daycare with permanent markers and staining paint on her clothing from daycare. Not just the odd mark, but DD's obviously been drawing all over the fronts of her shirts. Now I know kids get dirty and such and the clothing isn't supposed to stay totally nice because after all, it's daycare, but am I at all justified in being annoyed about this?
I just can't understand why at a daycare when they know kids are messy they give them permanent markers. I have had a lot of trouble getting some of it off her skin even. Is there a best way to bring this up to daycare or should I just get over it and accept anything I send her to daycare in risks being ruined? ------------- 7/2010, 10/2012 and 1/2015 |
Replies:
Posted By: LateStarterLorna
Date Posted: 10 June 2012 at 11:12am
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Mines obsessed with felt pens and no matter will find one and draw on herself, I know the carers do their best to stop her but they cant be everywhere and the pens and paints are for the older kids too, so I just accept it and put her in 'daycare' clothes, usually prestained clothes from friends, thrift shops or cheap trade me bulk deals.
Her first day there she came home with a moko 
Have a word with the daycare and ask them to maybe supervise her a little more when its paint time and get them to encourage her to put paint/pen on paper  ------------- http://www.TickerFactory.com/weight-loss/weIHiFu/" rel="nofollow">  |
Posted By: Bky
Date Posted: 10 June 2012 at 12:12pm
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Well they have a separate side for the 2 and unders, so I just can't see it's necessary for under 2's to be having permanent markers. My annoyance is twofold. I wonder why they don't have washable markers/paints for the kids (when we've bought them for home it doesn't cost any more) and that the clothes are pretty much unsalvageable. I'm fine with the odd mark because I know kids will be messy, but over the past few weeks she's come home with some basically unusable shirts because there is so much marker on them. Naturally it's all the lighter coloured shirts with black marker as well. This was all secondhand cheap stuff, but I can't even pass it on to the the next kid for daycare, let alone have her wear it now.
I guess I should just get over it though is what you're saying. ------------- 7/2010, 10/2012 and 1/2015 |
Posted By: Stoked
Date Posted: 10 June 2012 at 12:23pm
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Maybe you could send her to daycare with a paint/marker shirt/apron in her kit? That she wears when she is doing those sorts of activities? (I'm a bit surprised the dc doesn't have them as at our dc when there was painting all the kids did it as a supervised activity at the same time?) ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">  http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: pumpkino
Date Posted: 10 June 2012 at 12:26pm
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This drives me crazy too. They supposedly use washable/non-permanent markers and paints but all DS1's clothes seem to be indelibly stained nonetheless - I can't get the stuff out for the life of me.
I have just resigned myself to the fact that all daycare clothes will get ruined and have a box of "daycare clothes" which are all the clothes I don't like very much or are stained or are just old/worn (hand me downs from relatives etc). It means he always looks scruffy at daycare, which I hate, but it's better than having all his nice stuff ruined and I just dress him up nice on the days he is at home with me. Also I'm hoping that once he gets a bit older it won't be such a problem - surely the phase of wanting to draw on your face/clothes doesn't last forever! |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 10 June 2012 at 2:43pm
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My daughter likes to paint herself, I've ended up with hand me downs from another Playcentre Mum so they're already marked.
Either that or send her to DC in over alls. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">   [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: tictacjunkie
Date Posted: 10 June 2012 at 4:21pm
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Grr this is one of my pet peeves too, I send her to kindy with "old" clothes on but still, it'd be nice if they at least used washable markers or paint.
We had a jacket ruined the other week, a jacket she was wearing outside, they didn't think to take it off when she came inside to paint and now we have a purple jacket covered in green paint that hasn't come out despite soaking a couple of times, now it just looks dirty,  , and it's her only warm jacket. When I said to kindy tactfully as I could- hey the paint she got all over her jacket didn't come out they just said "oh sorry it's supposed to be washable" and they're still using it.
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 10 June 2012 at 4:26pm
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Oh wow, interesting that it annoys most people! Our creche gave me a firm warning that any clothes I sent DS in would be covered in stains from that point in, and he just has creche clothes and good clothes. I actually rather like it, personally - I'm all for him covering himself in paint (because he can't really paint without doing that) and experimenting with different kinds of paint, not just watercolours, but I'm also very pleased to have someone else willing to clean it up and just give me the grubby clothes in a bag! -------------   
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Posted By: pudgy
Date Posted: 10 June 2012 at 9:03pm
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But that's what happens at preschool/daycare/kindy. The teachers have better things to do than make sure all the kids keep clean. Just buy cheap/secondhand/trademe clothes.
Just send her in old clothes that don't matter . ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Hadlam
Date Posted: 10 June 2012 at 9:20pm
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I expect my DS to come home grubby, although we got told as well when he started daycare to expect it and dress him in old \ cheap clothes.
Its jus part of the nature of it - but I guess I would expect them to use washable stuff as much as possible. Even the so called washable stuff can stain or take a bit to get out. |
Posted By: Nikki
Date Posted: 10 June 2012 at 10:04pm
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I also got told to dress them in old clothes that may get paint etc on them. I have a separate draws for "daycare/kindy" clothes and they just look absolutely scruffy when they go. I dont send them in anything I don't want ruined .... cos chances are the first time they wear something to daycare will be the day they get covered in paint! Just keep the ruined stuff for daycare days and send her back in all the marked clothes.
It does get better -- my 4 year old never gets any paint or felt pen on himself now (he does get dirt / sand / water on his clothes frequently though, but that comes out in the wash!). ------------- DS (5yrs) and DD (3yrs) |
Posted By: Bizzy
Date Posted: 11 June 2012 at 12:22pm
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permanent markers arent the best tool to have for little kids. I would talk to them and ask them why the permanent markers? ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: lisame
Date Posted: 11 June 2012 at 12:30pm
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yeah I don't quite get the permanent markers either, especially in an under-twos section, bx they're not only putting it on their skin, they're probably chewing on them too?
I totally get the 'daycare' clothes thing, but you can't always have one of everything for daycare and another for 'good' - eg. warm outdoor jackets that tictacjunkie mentioned. I got caught out early on as her homecarer doesn't usually do any painting, and she had a new-ish merino top on, and that was the day they chose to go to a playgroup and guess what, they were painting. Despite soaking and washing, she now has another 'messy' top ;-) I hope her carer would be sensible enough to take her out of her 'good' warm outdoors jacket before painting though! |
Posted By: Nikki
Date Posted: 11 June 2012 at 3:16pm
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We do have daycare coats and non-daycare coats, daycare shoes/gumboats and non-daycare shoes etc. Makes it easier, as you know they will get trashed at daycare/kindy. ------------- DS (5yrs) and DD (3yrs) |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 11 June 2012 at 4:19pm
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We have a whole wardrobe of daycare clothes, I asked other Mums for any worn/stained clothes their kids no longer fitted for DD as I didn't want to buy cheap new stuff to get ruined. It's been great as clothes are already marked/stained I don't care if they get any more.
My first visit to PC was all I needed to know my daughter loves getting messy. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 11 June 2012 at 11:10pm
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I find most markers are permanent unless you wash stuff really fast... we have "washable" marker stains on clothes, walls and they even last for a wee while on skin...
------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: tictacjunkie
Date Posted: 12 June 2012 at 12:43am
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Not everyone has enough space, time, or money for two sets of everything for every child. And in this weather you'd need more than just two of everything (one on, one in wash, one trying to get dry, one in bag for spare). I think it's wasteful too, I like to encourage my kids to be grateful for and look after what they've got.
I just wish kindy would at least try to get washable paints and stay away from jolly marker pens, they can't be cheap?!! Or use smocks. I'm pretty sure if they don't think to take an outdoor jacket (puffy type- it was frosty that day) off before they paint then they won't remember to put a smock on her even if I provide it. And that jolly paint soaks through everything!! I do clearly remember having to put a smock on before I painted when I was at kindy though. I don't mind them getting dirty, and I don't mind having to soak the odd item or two, but when it's several items every day of the week it gets a bit much, , especially when Miss 3 refuses to wear something because it's stained.
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Posted By: tictacjunkie
Date Posted: 12 June 2012 at 12:50am
Ooh and having to wash those clothes seperately because the dye runs through the entire wash. I remember dd(now)8 coming home covered in stamp ink because they were making handprints, with STAMP INK ffs,  , I cried (granted I was pregnant at the time), she had stains on her face, neck and hands for over a week and people were looking at me in the supermarket like I'd beat her (it was purple-blue and looked like bruises) And that was when we definitely couldn't afford to buy extra clothes.
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 12 June 2012 at 1:05am
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We don't have two jackets for Jacob (actually, he doesn't have any jackets, but if he did he'd just have one). I just send him in layers with a nice warm fluffy top. 'Creche' clothes are cheap as chips, because you can pick them up second hand, it doesn't really matter what state they're in. Even if your kid doesn't go to creche, doesn't everyone have play clothes and good clothes, or is that just me?
I don't think our creche lets the kids use vivids or anything. That said, I've let him have a scribble with them at home when he's seen me using one and wants to give it a go, so I would hardly complain. On the other hand, I think it wouldn't be over the top to suggest using felt tips to them, I'm very surprised they don't already. I can understand being sad about the merino top, lisame, that's totally understandable and would be a bit sad -------------
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 12 June 2012 at 7:48am
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we've got washable markers at home they wash of skin ok takes a bit more to get them off clothes
certain paint pigments stain more than others DD was stained blue for a couple of days ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: lisame
Date Posted: 12 June 2012 at 10:01am
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yeah Hopes I was a bit gutted but it was my fault really. I asked her carer for any suggestions to get the paint out, and she was really surprised that it hadn't come out, so I guess that's why she didn't stop to think about it.
You live and learn. |
Posted By: IzzysMum
Date Posted: 14 June 2012 at 12:37am
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I remember being really surprised on one of my visits with DD to daycare (i.e. while I was still settling her in) that they got out the paints, and the Supervisor said to the other teacher "Chloe has to have a smock on if we're painting, her Mum asked." I was gobsmacked that a mother would have to ask, and astounded that they would put one on ONLY the child whose mother had asked and not on any other children.
Anyway, the way I deal with this is to have separate clothes for daycare and for home/going out, but in saying that, I will not send my daughter dressed in clothes that are absolute rags to daycare because I think it's important to develop a sense of pride in one's appearance, and plus, you can't take her anywhere afterwards if she's dressed in rags! So, I've learned to purchase clothes in colours that don't show up the stains, try black, navy (dark denim too), dark grey, even colours like fuschia, jade green and purple don't show up most paint stains (permanent marker would probably be another thing though). As for the argument about not being able to afford two sets of clothing, I personally would disagree with that one because first, as others have mentioned daycare clothes can be obtained extremely cheap, and second, you'd be doing so much laundry if you didn't have enough spare clothes that those costs would probably outweigh the cost of buying an extra couple of items of clothing. This year, I bought all of my daughter's GOOD winter clothes brand new for next to nothing by selling her last year's ones on TradeMe. |
Posted By: snugglebug
Date Posted: 14 June 2012 at 8:40pm
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I agree with you! I would be really annoyed if I found out DS was using permanent markers at daycare. I don't see the point in that at all. I don't really think under 2s need to use markers anyway, I teach 5 year olds and I usually give them crayons not markers because they make such a mess. I think you're justified in asking the teachers what they are using them for and asking them to watch out about it.
I am aware that my DS daycare does art etc and that sometimes he might get dirty/messy but I think they do have a duty to be careful as well, at school I am careful to make sure kids don't stain their clothes with the things we use and provide smocks, it's not unreasonable at all. I agree with having daycare clothes but I don't think that you have to expect they will get stained necessarily, just dirty... Id be annoyed if all Noah's clothes came home stained. I think if it bothers you, you should talk to them. My DS daycare is really friendly and open and if I had a problem like that I would talk to them. But it does boggle my mind how they would be giving markers to under 2s, not a good idea! ------------- Me 28, DH 29 DS born 20 Nov 2010 (4 years old) #2 due October 7 http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 14 June 2012 at 11:24pm
Really? astounded and gobsmacked?? over lack of painting smock... why? Preschool teachers are busy people, they have lots more important stuff to deal with than making sure all kids are wearing smocks, especially in a free-play environment - that's a pretty BIG ask! I think we as parents should consider how lucky we are that they're cleaning up the mess and all we have to do is wash a few clothes....who cares if they're stained - they're kids that's what they do :) ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
IzzysMum wrote:Posted By: snugglebug
Date Posted: 15 June 2012 at 2:49pm
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Freckle we do pay them for that though, they're not just doing it out of the goodness of their heart. I don't think its unreasonable to think they would use painting smocks. I always put something on over the kids clothes when they paint at school, I dont find that unreasonable. At my last school they got parents to bring in an old t shirt to put on over their clothes if they did paint. Pretty easy to do... ------------- Me 28, DH 29 DS born 20 Nov 2010 (4 years old) #2 due October 7 http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 15 June 2012 at 3:24pm
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As paint is a regular part of the ECE curriculum there will always be access to it for all children regardless of age and ability.
Daycare maybe different with segregated ages, at Playcentre all children have access to all areas of play as it's child initiated. I guess it depends on what you are wanting from daycare, your children to learn/play or a baby sitting service. My understanding is the adult/child ratios are a lot higher at other ECE Centres it would be difficult to keep all of the children clean. On all our visits we were told to wear/bring a change of clothes in case of wet/mess/sand/paint etc. I've found even washable markers take a bit more effort to get out of clothes. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 15 June 2012 at 4:24pm
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Snugglebug - it's a huge difference between preschool and school imo... and school isn't free play, it's much more structured, plus the kids are much more independent at school age. I agree yes we often pay for the service, but for me I would prefer teachers spend them time facilitating learning, social interactions, resolving behavioural difficulties, encouraging communication etc... than making sure all the kids are kept clean... ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: HoneybunsMa
Date Posted: 15 June 2012 at 8:07pm
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We have daycare clothes, I don't normally dress DD on the days she goes to daycare as she only does 3hr sessions and I'm at work so her papa or dad dresses her, but as I know which clothes are which I pull them out that morning or the night before and put them on her bed, including, singlets, underwear and jumpers.
I haven't had anything come home from daycare that I can't get the stain out of, however I have had trouble getting whiteboard marker out of her clothes that her grandmother gave her 
I do agree though, if you have washable markers unless you tend to the spot right there and then they tend to be pretty stuck in... And try desolve it you can get from supermarket that got whiteboard marker out of DDs top before it set. Otherwise try hand sanitizer. Its basically rubbing alcohol. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
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Posted By: Nikki
Date Posted: 15 June 2012 at 10:07pm
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I agree with feckle ... asking schooled aged kids to each put on an old t shirt (that they will do themselves) is far easier than the teacher stopping to put aprons on a room full of under 2 year olds who are rushing to get to the paints. I know some daycares do use them, so maybe check out some other centres if it bothers you so much? We were told to wear old clothes cos they don't stop the kids flow when they are working, and I'm happy with that. Kinda one of those things with daycare that you just accept I guess. Losing socks annoys me much more than stained clothes!!!
I've never had issues with marker pens either (they use felt pens but I've not really noticed stains) and the paint they use they put some dishwashing liquid in so stains come out. Of course there has been the odd time it hasn't come out .... but my kids go in crappy clothes so I don't care. To be honest the washing machine full of sand annoys me more - my 4 year old must have brought home many kgs in the last few years! And I'm pretty sure the crappy clothes has not damaged their self esteem or sense of self worth at that age!! lol   ------------- DS (5yrs) and DD (3yrs) |
Posted By: pumpkino
Date Posted: 15 June 2012 at 10:33pm
Yes, and double yes!! DS1 has lost EIGHT pairs of socks since the beginning of the year, even though I name them!! And the sand...grrrrrrrrr. ------------- http://www.myfitnesspal.com/weight-loss-ticker"> 
Created by MyFitnessPal.com |
Posted By: JAFAjaffa
Date Posted: 17 June 2012 at 6:31pm
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Honestly I think daycare do think that the paint and marker pens are washable so that's why they don't worry about it. DS has come home with so much paint on him that I swear he must have rolled in it and it still hasn't come out after repeated soakings in napisan etc etc.
I was really annoyed about it, but then I figured it was all part and parcel of the daycare experience. I'd rather that it didn't happen, but nevermind. However, if they didn't take his jacket off then I would be super annoyed. I don't want to buy multiple jackets for him - so I am with whoever said that! ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 17 June 2012 at 8:25pm
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This has been a fascinating board to experience for me, I must admit. A reminder to never make assumptions... because it had never, for one little tiny moment, occured to me that other parents wouldn't like the way DS's creche runs (like I've said earlier, it's the 'bring old clothes' kind) or that they'd care if play clothes got permanantly marked.
Not that it matters at all if you do! But before now it hadn't occured to me that people might! 'Good' clothes, yes. My kids have the odd expensive or sentimental thing that I'd be devastated if they got ruined. But otherwise, wow, I'm glad I don't run a creche, I'd have had some irate parents at my door! It's kinda freaky when you realise that your worldview (even on something this minor) is 'alternative'! -------------
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 17 June 2012 at 8:28pm
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Although I would say - as important as it is to develop a sense of pride in ones appearance, I'd place more importance on using appropriate 'tools' for the job. So for church, our best clothes, for painting the fence (or the paper, or his face, or other play in general) our oldest and rattiest that we don't mind ruining. But perhaps that's just because I grew up on a farm. -------------
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Posted By: snugglebug
Date Posted: 17 June 2012 at 8:33pm
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I get the not wearing your best clothes to daycare thing and I get that not all daycares have time to cover them up. BUT I don't see how they could justify using permanent markers when they don't need to? Or paint that doesn't wash out, when you can get stuff that does? I think they do have a duty to be careful in that way. I realise things will get dirty and sometimes even stained at daycare and that's fine. But I think its not unreasonable to expect they would try to take steps to stop that from happening. I sort of get the vibe that to some, thinking this way means I don't appreciate the importance of free play and not interrupting creativity and all that which is not true, I absolutely do. But as you are amazed at the people who care about clothes getting stained, I am amazed that others don't care as much, different strokes for different people I guess. Even daycare clothes have to be purchased at some point even second hand and have to be replaced when they get stained, and we do need to teach our kids to take care of their things and their clothing etc. We don't live our lives as we get older without regard for that stuff so I sorta expect it to start at a younger age too. But thats my view
ETA sorry if that came off a bit harsh I didn't mean it to be was just trying to explain my point of view. Plus I went back to the OP and she said that her DD seemed to have been drawing on the front of her shirts. I don't really see that as free play or something that should be encouraged, I mean there does need to be some limits/things to follow at least in my opinion. Formal daycare is not really the same as creche/playgroup type situations I guess and so Im coming from what I expect out of my daycare point of view, whereas maybe I wouldn't expect that from a different place ------------- Me 28, DH 29 DS born 20 Nov 2010 (4 years old) #2 due October 7 http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Bky
Date Posted: 18 June 2012 at 8:32am
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^^Yes, that's pretty much it. I don't see why daycare is allowing my kid to have an OfficeMax marker (I've seen them) when I know, because we have them at home, the washable Crayolas aren't that expensive (and I've had decent luck washing those out). Especially when the same daycare is prone to changing my child out of clothing that gets drooled on (they have a much lower tolerance for mess than I do), and in the past has even changed my child out of previously marked up clothing into something less marked (which then gets marked up, of course). ------------- 7/2010, 10/2012 and 1/2015 |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 18 June 2012 at 10:02am
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You don't have to defend yourself, snugglebug, I think you're with the majority here.
I don't know what the difference between our creche and 'formal' daycare is (it's where the kids go while I'm at work) but I can see that if you had an at-home carer who just chose clothes at random that would be a bit frustrating. -------------
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 18 June 2012 at 12:18pm
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By putting DD in old already stained clothes I don't worry that they'll get stained further from Playcentre, she likes to paint herself her opposite hand/arm is always covered in paint so I send her to PC in short sleeves.
There are pinnys available if you wish and some parents will use overalls. The reason we go to PC is so that the mess/paint/sand etc is for the most part confined to the centre and not at home. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: snugglebug
Date Posted: 18 June 2012 at 7:28pm
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By formal I meant where they have routines etc I got from your post that your creche was more free play, that's all I meant, just a more formal/structured environment, but if I misinterpreted that Im sorry, I didn't mean better or anything I just meant like perhaps it would be less of a focus in an environment where there were less rules etc. ------------- Me 28, DH 29 DS born 20 Nov 2010 (4 years old) #2 due October 7 http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Nikki
Date Posted: 18 June 2012 at 10:12pm
I think if the child was at school then yeah sure teach them to look after things ... or if they are out and about in the "best" clothes .... but I think thats a little too much to expect from a 1 year old in a daycare situation where arts/crafts are involved. And I don't replace stained daycare clothes until they are way too small! I just keep sending them in scruffy stuff .... that way I don't need to worry about it ... and neither do the teachers who probably have more important things to do. I think its a little unrealistic to expect teachers to notice every time any child draws on themselves and always be there to stop it. My daughter used to eat crayons, paint and play dough etc, there was no way I could expect them to be watching her the whole time when there were 15 other bubs and toddlers in the room. Thats life in daycare eh. I just try to think of all the fun they must be having getting dirty, and what they are learning. I completely agree with you hopes (and I grew up in ak, not anywhere near a farm!) about appropriate clothes for the situation ... I dress my children immaculately when we go out ... but daycare and kindy are for getting messy and having fun, so I dress them in old/second hand clothes ... it is an eye opener to me too - because I thought I was quite picky (changed my wording to not offend!) but maybe not. Maybe my playcentre days got me used to mess - now playcentre clothes were another level of scruffiness again!!! lol They really destroyed clothes there .... ------------- DS (5yrs) and DD (3yrs) |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 19 June 2012 at 7:58am
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lol Nikki I have my own Playcentre clothes as frequently I'm the one being painted. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 19 June 2012 at 12:14pm
Ah right, yes it does have a very relaxed structure, so you were spot on. They have various activities out (including paint most days) and the kids just wander round doing what they like, with the staff keeping a general eye on things. It would be much easier to keep clothes clean if you had a set 'painting' time in a more structured environment, totally (smocks would be hard work at the creche!) -------------
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Posted By: tictacjunkie
Date Posted: 19 June 2012 at 12:18pm
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I think it's a bit different as to whether you're sending your children to kindy or a daycare or just toddling along to playcentre a couple of times per week, it's also how much spare time you personally have as to what your expectations are and how much clothes destruction you will tolerate.
It's also about age appropriate-ness, I really don't think under-3's should be using permanent markers, aside from the staining it can't be healthy to be putting them on their skin or in their mouth. I send dd3y to kindy 5 days a week (8.30-1-30) as a lead up to school, I expect her to be careful with paint and not get herself completely filthy, as it's part of learning coordination etc, but then again I don't growl her if she does, however, it would be nice if the kindy at least tried to use washable markers (or as someone else mentioned add dishwash to the paint). Or every now and then said "Hey Johnny and Martha, how about you put the paint on the paper instead of on the table or floor or yourselves". And before I get jumped on I was on the committee, I know what they spend on what and believe me, it's definitely the teacher's choice as to what they get and how they use it, price isn't the consideration (we suggested they get much cheaper washable ones from the warehouse or trademe but they HAD to order from the "proper" "educational" (read heavily marked up) suppliers because they got free stuff when they ordered from them). Now they plead poor and we pay $250 a term for 20 hours "free". I know my limitations and my stresses and chucking away what was perfectly good clothing is one of them because even if you are lucky enough to get it cheap or for free it is still wasteful. Primary schools push big time to teach the kids sustainability, environmental responsibility and respect ("respect is being kind to yourself, kind to others, and kind to the environment which is the people and the things around you" is what my 6yo happily explains), perhaps it's time ECE caught up and started taking on board some of those principles too. They don't need marker pens, give them jovies, it's what they'll use at school anyway. edited spelling |
Posted By: kandk
Date Posted: 19 June 2012 at 9:41pm
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jovies?? ------------- http://lilypie.com">  http://lilypie.com">
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Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 20 June 2012 at 11:53am
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I don't get why you'd have to throw the stained clothes out Tictac? that seems wasteful as they will then just stain more clothes. I think (for me) it's just easier to accept kindy clothes will get stained, and I just keep using them. In fact we do heaps of messy play at home too, so most my kids clothes have some kind of stain lol... But my fav memories as a kid was playing with messy stuff... I don't let my kids paint the walls or carpets etc, but I'm happy for them to be covered in paint or mud or whatever - it's good fun! and at the end of the day it's this kind of thing they remember :)
------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: tictacjunkie
Date Posted: 20 June 2012 at 4:02pm
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I do accept that kindy clothes will get stained a bit and I've never sent them to kindy (or school for that matter) in "good" clothes.
We've had a lot of clothes that have completely fallen apart after being washed so many times. Granted they were second hand to begin with. I have also thrown out things that were so covered in paint that even after soaking and washing they were hard, crunchy and scratchy like paper mache, unwearable. One t-shirt actually ripped/broke like cardboard. I have no idea what paint they are using these days, but it's awful. It stinks as well but that's beside the point! And don't get me started on the burn/scorch marks from the glue guns, or holes/cuts from scissors. Our local opshops will throw out clothing donated with marks on it or cut it up and use it as rags because no one will buy it. As we are in a rural town one of the opshops tried a "farm clothes" rack, fill a bag for 50c, but had very little takers so they gave that up. My main point was more shouldn't the kids be taught to treat their clothes with respect rather than trashing them. Waiting til they're at school to teach them to put on a smock is far too late. We have a small lifestyle block and I'm a keen gardener/diy-er so my kids are out in the paddock or sandpit getting filthy most days, dirty is not the issue, STAINING is. I bet you wouldn't let a toddler play with permanent markers or stamp ink at home Freckle, that is my issue with our ece centre (as was the OPs). kandk- Jovies are hard crayons that you can sharpen with a pencil-sharpener, easy to use, decent colour-coverage. They're in the stationery section normally next to the colouring pencils. Normally around the $7-10 mark but go on special for $4 around school stationery shopping time. They've been on our years 0-4 stationery lists for as long as I can remember (ds is in year 6 so I guess that's 7years-ish), but I was "wtf is a jovie?" when I first saw it too. |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 20 June 2012 at 5:02pm
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[QUOTE=tictacjunkie]I bet you wouldn't let a toddler play with permanent markers or stamp ink at home Freckle, that is my issue with our ece centre (as was the OPs).
This is my reason for sending my toddler to Playcentre so she can have messy play without getting paint/marker etc on our furniture. I also think teaching kids to look after things is an age and stage of development, my 20 month old doesn't understand about taking care of her clothes I'm sure by the time she is 5 she will have a better understanding. some kids wreck clothes no matter how much you tell them not to ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 20 June 2012 at 8:44pm
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I was thinking about this - I think part of my approach really is the farm upbringing, like I mentioned earlier. Because there you really did have 'good' clothes for special occasions, 'everyday' clothes for school, and 'farm' clothes. I never considered having farm clothes wasteful. You worked in them, painted in them, got oil, blood or yuckky stuff on them and they got stained and yuckky. When they were too stained and yuckky to be reasonably wearable you got new ones. So I guess I don't have an issue with a set of clothes being delegated as 'ok' to get stained and grubby (and if it's fun to get them that way, so much the better). -------------
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Posted By: LateStarterLorna
Date Posted: 20 June 2012 at 9:36pm
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Mine came home today with a very pretty patterned tshirt and hands, still doesnt bother me, I guess cos shes too young to understand the concept of keeping clothes clean and as long as day care are keeping her happy then Im happy :)
Its a hand me down tshirt and in the grand scheme of things, its getting more wear than any of her 'nice' clothes as some only get worn once or twice before shes outgrown them, they then get passed on to someone else to use as they wish, so a chain of recycling goes on ------------- http://www.TickerFactory.com/weight-loss/weIHiFu/" rel="nofollow"> |
Posted By: Nikki
Date Posted: 20 June 2012 at 9:48pm
completely agree. And yes, I have let my kids play with ink at home (those little ink pad sets you get from cheapie shops) - anything to amused them for a while
I didn't grow up on a farm, but I have just accepted that kids need "play / kindy / daycare" clothes that they can have fun in .... preschoolers are not ready (in my opinion) to be stressing about their clothes and worried about getting them stained. Now I know why daycare and kindy have really stressed that they shouldnt be sent in clothes that can't get dirty ---- must be quite a few parents that moan about it ..... (the parents I know recently laughed when they sent a note home saying they would be painting a float for use in a parade so to send them in clothes that could get pain on them - I never send them in clothes that I care about and expect all clothes to get paint on that go to daycare, lol) .... In saying that - my kids don't burn holes in their clothes or draw on them with markers, so maybe some of the other kids are alot rougher?? ------------- DS (5yrs) and DD (3yrs) |
Posted By: tictacjunkie
Date Posted: 21 June 2012 at 4:23pm
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This was pots of commercial type stamp ink, not stamp pads, our kids use the scrap-booking stuff at home.
Vivids?!! And again we're getting two or three pieces of clothing coming home caked in paint that's dried hard on her by the time I pick her up and doesn't soften even after soaking, EVERY SINGLE WEEK. The burn marks are on her sleeves, as though she's put the glue gun down then reached over it, she's not rough, in fact quite the opposite. But perhaps the glue gun is something they should supervise better. One mum was given a lovely gift of a milk bottle lid filled with holes her son had melted into it with the glue gun. You all seem to think the problem is with me for being concerned, not whether or not the kindy is being responsible with what they're giving the kids to play with and whether or not they're supervising it properly. The eldest of my 5 children is 11y soon so I've been at the kindy almost constantly for the past eight years and we've not had this problem to this extent before, we've always had "kindy" specific clothes. The kindy used to be really good but the staff has changed numerous times over the past few years, we are already on to our second head teacher this year alone. (three if you count the acting one at the start of the year) I've had dd3y home this week as they fertilised the grass, granules all over the footpath (the only way in and out of the kindy building) and she's broken out in hives. (to add to her misery with her cold she's now got) Aside from the fact that since they removed the playground last year the grass is the only outdoor play area and they have the sprinklers going on it when there is a frost so the kids can play on it. Your playcentres or daycares etc may be lovely but clearly mine has issues and had I a choice I would send her elsewhere. After this week with the fertiliser issue I won't be enrolling my youngest at all. Or maybe I'm just not as fabulously "mum-enough" as the rest of you are. |
Posted By: tictacjunkie
Date Posted: 21 June 2012 at 4:28pm
| And absolutely I pass the kindy clothes down from child to child regardless of the paint marks but this paint they are using is soaking into the actual fibres of the fabric and going hard like cardboard, I can't fold it to put it away in the drawer let alone pull it on over her head. That is the waste. |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 21 June 2012 at 8:25pm
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Supervision of the glue gun and related materials is 1 adult to 2 kids at our PC often its 1 to 1. We try to stop the kids burning holes in themselves, clothes would be a close second. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |
Posted By: Nikki
Date Posted: 21 June 2012 at 10:38pm
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tictacjunkie - definitely sounds like its time to look for a new kindy or daycare centre, as you don't seem very happy with yours and all those staff changes can be unsettling for the kids too. Or perhaps talk our concerns over with the head teacher?
In the babies room of my centre they actually wash the clothes and put them in the dryer if they get too filthy (or throw up on them etc). It only happened a couple of times, but I thought that was nice of them. ------------- DS (5yrs) and DD (3yrs) |
Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 22 June 2012 at 8:21am
That would be hard work. Our creche rinses the clothes if they get really paint-soaked, and gives them to me in a bag wet. And enough of the 'I'm not Mum enough' comments already. We don't mean that and you know it. We just have different approaches to paint and kids clothes, how did that ever become a major?! -------------
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Posted By: freckle
Date Posted: 22 June 2012 at 2:26pm
Funny that you say that cos that's how I feel about not caring about stains and stuff... I'm a very arty person myself and always (even as an adult) make a big mess when I paint (which I do a fair bit)... I freaken hate cleaning up as well. I've always felt like I'm a bit average as a SAHM cos I'm not keen on cleaning, I don't know all the tricks of how to get this or that out of clothes, I don't mind a bit of clean mess etc etc... So I defintely don't think anything you have said indicates that you're not "mum enough" we're all different and it would be a boring world if we weren't ------------- mum to 3 lovely girls :D |
Posted By: snugglebug
Date Posted: 23 June 2012 at 9:41pm
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Caliandjack I think the point in some ways is that yes 20 month olds can't respect/take care of their clothes so it is up to the people looking after them to help do that and teach them the lessons by example.
I think the reason why ttj would say she feels not Mum enough is because some of the comments sort of read like it's silly to care about that stuff, which of course someone who does care is going to get offended about. Always hard when talking online to know the tone of something, and I think Mums like to staunchly defend their own views because they believe in them so much and it can sometimes come off as saying another person is wrong. Hope that makes sense. No matter what way you look at it it does seem weird and strange for under 2s to have permanent marker pens, I don't know what the daycare would be thinking on that one, which is really what the original post was about at the end of the day. I don't see what they would be doing with those and I would expect at any daycare they should stop children deliberately drawing on their clothes especially with a permanent pen ------------- Me 28, DH 29 DS born 20 Nov 2010 (4 years old) #2 due October 7 http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: Hopes
Date Posted: 24 June 2012 at 8:40am
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I know what you mean, Snugglebug - and in the same way the other side could assume that they're being called careless and slovenly to not mind stains. Thing is, I'm pretty confident neither side means anything of the kind -------------
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 24 June 2012 at 9:22am
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I'm teaching my daughter we have different clothes for PC that are ok to get messy/dirty I have paint stained clothes as well. As the nature of play is there is going to be mess. That is what we go to playcentre for to allow for messy play in an environment fit for the purpose.
There are two ways the OP can go about it, talk to her daycare and ask that her child wear a pinny etc when there is messy play and/or send her in clothes that don't matter. Washable markers still stain leave marks not sure using them instead of permanent markers would make any difference. ------------- http://lilypie.com" rel="nofollow"> [/url] Angel June 2012 |