Is society too permissive today?
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Topic: Is society too permissive today?
Posted By: fattartsrock
Subject: Is society too permissive today?
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 1:18pm
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All these teens in the news for the wrong reasons.. Got me thinking...(well, being a step mum to a teen means I have been thinking about this for a LONG time..)
Are we to permissive today? Are we too interested in being our Teens friends as opposed to their parents/aunts/uncles/role models etc? Are we too scared to say no? What is it we are scared of...that they won't like us this week? HAving a teen in the house is a constant battle of the "no's" rather like having a toddler, but toddler dosen't want to go to boozy parties (everyone else is going) or use the car (and there is no way on this earth the said teen is ever driving my car!)or have a car BOUGHT for them (lots of DSS friends parents have bought them cars! like its a right, not a priveledge, or something they ahve had to work for!!). He's 15 now, but do 14 year olds NEED to be going out at night? Why? to parties/gatherings etc? I even struggle with ihm being 15 and off to parties (which has only been allowed in last month, we say no but his mum says yes, so he just dosen't come and stay when he wants to go out, which is sad for DH) I have just been reading about 2 14 year olds arrested for shooting a policeman. What on earth did their parents think they were up to? When I was a teenager (am 32 now) my parents were VERY (a little too, actually) strict on me, but most of my friends parents were, as well. Parties were once every 3 or 4 months or so (usually in the holidays, and I was never ever allowed to go) instead of every weekend, the parents were the boss of us, not the other way around, driving was a privlege, not a right, we (mostly) respected our elders, anyone having sex under 15 or 16 (it was the "fashion to do it RIGHT before you turned 16, like days, cos it was illegal) was a sl#t and not cool at all, most of us had a wee job cos we wanted things are parents couldn't afford to buy us (levi 501's)or refused to spend that amount of money on. We bought them ourselves to learn the value of money, and it was much, much harder to get credit in those days, when you were 18 and going in for that first hp (a stero or tv, usually) you needed to have a guarantour.. Yes, there was drinking, smoking,sex and drugs (but to be honest, I never saw drugs till I was about 17, which was when I hit my rebellion years, had left school and was working)but it was the exception rather than the rule (well, maybe not smoking). I was in the cool crowd, too, but it just seems that today there is no rules, disipline or thought of consequence? Maybe I'm just old... ------------- The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P |
Replies:
Posted By: aimeejoy
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 1:43pm
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Yep and it worries me what it will be like when Han is a teenager. I am only 25 now so it wasnt that long ago that I was at high school, but I am sure things have go teven worse since then.
I was a geek but I had a lot of similar friends and I was allowed to hang out with them on the weekends cos my parents knew we weren't going to do too much wrong. My parents were pretty strict on me, especially compared to others paretns. When I was 16 and had a boyfriend in the first XV I started wanting to go to parties, but I wasnt allowed. All the cool kids parents let them go, every weekend, so I was not happy, but I guess was somewhat sensible and could see my parents side of it. I was allowed to go out to my boyfriends house and the occassional party but I always had to be home at 12 (dad would come and pick me up). DHs family was really laid back about that kind of stuff and they have all gone off the rails, other than Daniel who would have turned out fine no matter what. I dont want to be like my parents, in that I would never tell my mum anything cos I knew she wouldn't approve. Never told her that I was having sex etc, where I would much prefer Hannah feeling comfortable enough with me to tell me so I know that she is safe. I would love to be able to let her go out to parties occassionally and know that she wont drink and drive etc, or if she did drink that she could phone us and we wouldnt fly off the handle. God I can ramble...  ------------- Aimee Hannah 22/10/05 Greer 11/02/08 |
Posted By: Brenna
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 1:47pm
Same here!! -------------  My beautiful 2 girls...nearly 4 and 13 months
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aimeejoy wrote:Posted By: thunderwolves
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 1:53pm
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"kids in sports stay out of courts" a little off topic, but i truley believe teens, pre teens that are involved and passionate about something seem to behave better as they have something to aspire to , that they dont want to mess up. ------------- http://alterna-tickers.com"> 
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Posted By: Paws
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 2:58pm
I just read a fabulous article in the latest Grapevine with a rabbi who was interviewed and effectively he said something very similar. His kids lives are so filled with alternatives and fulfilling activities that they don't need to go out and be wild and boozey and test the limits of society. Heck they don't even date for fun. He made an extremely strong case for teens NOT dating until they are actually looking for a marriage partner which was also a proposition put forward by our youth pastor. It's food for thought and you wonder how much grief would be saved if teens had more to do than go out, get drunk and have sex. (and for the record no our youth pastor didn't date until he met his now wife and they got engaged - that's right - they dated ONCE engaged. Kind cool I think.) ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: MyMinis
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 3:40pm
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I liked to have the odd party and have a few drinks and at times was rude to people, but in saying that I had a lot of respect for my parents and they respected me aswell and we were like friends, I told them everything (a bit more than I think they wouldve liked to ahve heard  ).
Parties taht were at my place my parents controlled and had limited alcohol and only if there was permission by parents and the parents ahd called my parents prior to teh party were they allowed there and if my parents knew them, I started working at 12 so that kept me out of trouble over the holidays. I would love to think my kids will turn out the same and we can get along the same way I did with my parents. But yeah kids have far to many options these days and can get away with basically anything, I hate eharing of what some of these kids get up to these days. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
http://tweetytweety85.bebo.com - bebo |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 4:39pm
| Re: the sports thing, that is what I have always said about Erin even before she was born - she can play all / any sports she likes, and will be heavily encouraged to do so. Not only will it place a greater emphasis on health etc hopefully it will grow to become a passion for her and replace the need to go out drinking and smoking. Not that parties will be totally out of the question (depending on what age she wants to start going of course), but our point is to provide more suitable alternatives for her. |
Posted By: miss
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 4:45pm
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Yes.
It starts so young as I can see it. The kids that are going to have the most trouble growing up are the parents who storm into school crying blue murder when you punish their child for doing something. They are so busy listening to their 'perfect' child that they are not teaching their child to take resposibility for their actions from day one. If little Johnnie hits other kids, then he has to learn that there is a consequence. It would be nice to be backed up by the parents rather than have them: a) laugh and say things like - oh, he is such a boisterous wee thing, that's how he shows people he likes them b) storm in with red faced fury demanding to know what had been done to their child first (nothing) and what is happening to the other children (none) that were involved , because Johnnie coudn't possibly have done it unprovoked or alone c) take the child home and beat the crap out of them so you can't actually involve the parents because you know every tiny misdemeanor is punished by a thrashing at home d) total disinterest e) calls for support for their application tot he doctors to have Johnnie diagnosed with any label at all that shows that it is nothing to do with them as parents but because Johnnie is add/adhd/dyslexic....etc. f) Yells and screams before finding out the full story then, instead of acknowledging that they were wroong to act the way they did, they storm off in a huff, avooiding the school until the next tme they overreact badly. g) haul their child out of the school and take them to another one, starting off a long line of transiency. -------------  
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Posted By: Mikaela
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 6:34pm
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I never went through a teenage rebellious stage. I wasn't part of the 'cool' crowd at school, but I was one of those kids who got along with just about everyone. I would drink a little bit at parties, but never enough to get drunk (didn't like the sensation of it) and
neverif I was driving. Never have tried drugs, even dope, just didn't want to. I wasn't an angel or anything, still had fights with my mum over cleaning my room and that kind of thing, but I didn't ever feel the need to rebel. I was wondering about it a while back, and I think it's because my parents never said no to me. That's not to say they ever let me go to wild parties or stay out late on a school night or anything, but if I wanted to do something they didn't approve of they didn't say 'no', they said, 'what would you want to do that for'? And the resulting discussion would end up usually with me seeing that what I wanted to do was actually a pretty dumb idea, but on a couple of occasions it helped my parents see why it was so important to me. Anyway, I think it's a tactic I'll try with my kids. No idea if it'll work as well with them as it did with me, but it's gotta be worth a go ------------- http://www.bump-and-beyond.com"> 
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Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 7:21pm
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OK so I did the complete teenage rebellion in about every way you can contemplate, to the point where I ended up in foster care coz my parents couldn't control me. Long, long story, and thankfully a long, long time ago. It was basically my rebelling against what I felt was unfair pressure from my parents (my Dad in particular) to not just do well in school, but be top of the class, was a little unrealistic and very suffocating.
I'll never subject my kids to that kind of pressure, but I'll also never let things get as out of hand as my parents let me get. Not that they weren't good parents, just that they didn't pull me in fast enough or hard enough, and my experiences mean my kids will have to be the quick and the dead to put one over on me. Do I think society in general is too permissive? Absolutely! In most sectors anyway. There are the few that are ultra conservative, but IMO that poses it's own risks of rebellion. But mainstream, kids are allowed to dress older, talk back, and stay out later than we ever were and I don't think that can possibly be a good thing. I do worry about my girls, but then I think the best thing that I can do to make them want to achieve better for themselves than tarting up with make up and short skirts by teaching them to be proud of themselves. Not that there are any guarantees, but by going into this parenting thing with our eyes wide open we put our kids in the best possible position to succeed. ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
 (02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: Kels
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 7:54pm
Im sooo dreading the teen years that are nearly upon me.  ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
Busy mum to Miss 15yrs, Miss 10yrs and Master 4yrs |
Posted By: lizzle
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 8:02pm
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Miss, I completely agree about parents in denial at schools. we had one girl caught in the lighting box performing a service on the lighting technician...her mother said that she had been the victim of some terrible lies - nevermind it was a teacher who had found them! she's well known for defending her children and the mistakes they make.
As for society being too permissive - I( was reading Sunday Star Times about this young girl who was pregnant at 13, at 11 had miscarried. 11!!!! God, i think I was still playing with my cabbage patch kid at that stage! anyway, the 13 yedar old had an artcile written about her and her dad made a great point "Legally I can't leave her at home alone, but she can have a baby" - anyway, my point was I felt the story was glorifying this. I know some ladies have had babies very young, and I don;t think that being a young mum means you are a bad mum, but I think most people who have had children very young would admit that it wasn't the most ideal of situations (hell at 26, it was "the most ideal of situations"). |
Posted By: Jennz
Date Posted: 24 June 2007 at 8:06pm
Mum bought me a horse! Lol  Between the part time job I had to have to afford the up keep, my studies, netball and the horse riding itself I didn't have time for much else. I gave it up school c year to study harder so it wasn't until that summer (when I was 16 1/2) that I started going to parties. Like Mikaelas parents though, Mum and I had a really good relationship where we discussed things rather than her just saying no.
I agree that society is way too permissive- and too annonymous. Theres no accountability anymore. ------------- Jen, Charlotte 7 & Kate 3 
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Posted By: Mikaela
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 11:21am
LOL! Mine did exactly the same thing! ------------- http://www.bump-and-beyond.com">
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Posted By: Gwen_
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 12:11pm
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I work with teens, and I agree society is too permissive today. But the students that I work with atlest, grow up seeing there parents drinking, taking drugs, Parting etc and the think that its normal!
What I find is that there is no vebal communication between teen and parent, they give them a cell-phone and off the kids go. The Parents not knowing who they are with, where they are going, what they are doing ect. And when they get into trouble the parents don't care. I see so many girls who pile make on like its running out of fashion and wear short skirts and have NO respect for themselves or there body.I was talking with a group of girls, and they only do it to get boys and get free drinks but along with the free drink they get raped and beating. Which made me think at 15 I didnt really care for boys, I spent my weekend hanging out with my friends and playing netbal. Well thats my two cents worth ------------- We're in America for 3 months with Mummy and Daddy! http://lilypie.com">  
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Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 12:52pm
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I do wonder what I'll be like as the parent of a teenager.
I like to think I'll be permissive to an extent... I don't want to limit her from doing things that she wants (within reason, of course!) but I guess I'd like to work to prevent these things from happening before they do. Raise her to be independent (and considerate), knowledgable (and responsible), fun (but mature). I went to parties when I was 14. Mum gave us drinks every now and again (not at 14... but before we were 18) and generally I followed the principle that 'honesty is the best policy'. I did do some silly things, like have a party when my mum was away... and sneak out once (but got grounded for a million years so didn't try that one again!) but mostly I think I was an alright kid. Though, I did get pregnant pretty young so I guess you could make the case the other way. I'd not like Han to follow the same path as me in that respect! I don't even know where I am going with this... I guess I'm going to try and create a friendship with my daughter that she respects, not abuses. We'll see how that goes! 
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Posted By: nikkitheknitter
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 12:53pm
And fully agree with the team sport thing. Not only does it keep them busy, they learn an awful lot about working with other people... it helps to get jobs too apparently! 
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Posted By: newmum
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 1:02pm
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Good thread!
yep - I think society is too permissive too. There don't seem to be any consequences for what is happening out there. Not only in regards to teenagers but society in general. ------------- http://lilypie.com"> 
http://lilypie.com"> 
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Posted By: Peanut
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 1:53pm
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I so agree with Miss, as a techer also, I am driven to insanity at times in dealing with parents. Our school was heavily involved with the edgeware rd incident, and thatw as a real eyey opener to how many parents had no idea where their child was or what was actually going on.
As I am not a parent yet, I can't imagine how hard it is to parent but i feel like a lot of parents need to be just that...A PARENT, not a friend, not their lawyer and not their excuse maker. -------------  
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 2:36pm
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It seems that girls are starting a lot younger. I did all those things, underage drinking, wearing too much make up, short skirts interested in boys but I was 16-17 by then. Now its my 10 yr old niece talking about boyfriends. I was still playing with my cabbage patch then. The media doesn't always help with girls like Paris and Lyndsay who drink and do drugs, they seem to normalise it. When I was 15 it was Madonna in her Like a Virgin phase.
I do wonder what the world will be like in 15-18 years time when I will be the mother of a teenager, I will 49-50 by then and don't even know how i'm going to relate to their 20-30 yr old teachers. I do intend to adopt a different approach to my mother, I would much rather have my daughter bring her boyfriend home so I know where she is, than pretend she's not having sex at all. |
Posted By: fattartsrock
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 2:59pm
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I agree with the kid in sports thing...in theory.. when they start to get a sniff of the opposite sex, it heads towards the window... thats what's happening here. The thing that gets me is the lack of consequence. I have read (yes, i finished it, Ana) the He'll be ok, growing gorgoues boys into good men book by Celia Lashlie, and it was a REAL eye opener. She stated that one of the things that have teachers going bats is that parents (mothers) wade in to protect their boys from punishment of any kind at school, like the rules apply to everyone but their son! one example was a boy outside the school gate, waiting a ride, flipped the bird at a teachers and was told to fron tup at the deans office the next day. The boy didn't front up, and when tracked down, he had a note from his mother saying she told him not to go, as he wasn't on school grounds so it was none of teachers business!!! To me, some parents are their own worse enemies!
THe lack of decent role models in the media is alarming as well, paris/lindsey/britney are shockers. ------------- The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P |
Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 3:04pm
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That's crazy, when I was at school they still had corporal punishment, and my parents gave teachers permission to use the ruler etc on us. A teacher was someone in authority and my parents always sided with the teacher.
Kids in sports works to a certain degree, however it was the booze culture at the rugby club and the surf lifesaving club that the trouble for me started. I do think a lot of kids get into trouble cause they are bored. |
Posted By: fattartsrock
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 3:15pm
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yeah, i remember the school always being right when it was me, although I was never really naughty at all, but I did talk alot, so was always getting detention for that (and it was my own fault, my folks would say), but as for my brothers, the school always had it wrong wrong wrong (hindsight is wonderful, aye mum?!)- she admits now she was wrong, lol!! ------------- The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P |
Posted By: miss
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 3:33pm
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That is exactly what I posted about in my mammothpost on the previous page fattarts and fleury - the list of the different ways parents handle children getting into trouble at school these days that teach their kids how not to take personal responsibility.
i saw celia speak at tcol, she is just fab. -------------
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 3:39pm
| I guess it doesn't help when adults themselves blame everyone else and don't take personal responsiblity for themselves. If our leaders can do it, then how can we expect our children to behave differently. I don't envy teachers they have a tough job and should have parental support. |
Posted By: daikini
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 3:53pm
Then there's the other extreme... my husband (secondary teacher) has Parent/Teacher Interviews tomorrow night, and he's expecting it to be a complete waste of time for 3 reasons: 1) reports don't go out until the end of the week; 2) notices about it go out today 3) the parents just don't care, and even with plenty of warning only about 1/2 show up! ------------- Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys |
Posted By: Mikaela
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 4:42pm
Seriously?! I can't imagine not turning up to my son's parent-teacher evenings - ever! ------------- http://www.bump-and-beyond.com">
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Posted By: miss
Date Posted: 25 June 2007 at 9:47pm
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Secondary school does see parents get a little less involved in things like that. Which is such a shame as it is precisely when parents need to be taking an interest! you see the drop off through primary school - parent help is full on in the juniors then trickles off. Mainly because as the youngest kiddies start school mthat is when the mums tend to go back to work.
interesting to see some women making a reverse choice with staying at home lately - they go back to school when the children are little (after 6 months or so ) then work reduced or no hours through the teens, so they are available then. -------------
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Posted By: daikini
Date Posted: 26 June 2007 at 9:04am
I can't imagine not taking an interest in my children's education either.
There is a massive problem with apathy here, where the parents are only sending the kids to school because they have to by law, and the kids are only attending until they are old enough to stop. I do an informal job for the school, collating weekly data about in-class behaviour, and I've noticed there is a major problem with punctuality, with students often simply bunking. When they are in class, they don't want to learn. ------------- Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys |
Posted By: Maya
Date Posted: 26 June 2007 at 9:27am
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If I found out my kids were bunking school I'd get my big beating stick out! OK, so maybe not quite that extreme, but I'd drive them to school and walk them in the gate, that way if they take off again I can honestly say I've done everything I can to make them go. ------------- Maya Grace (28/02/03)
(02/01/06)
The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Posted By: caliandjack
Date Posted: 26 June 2007 at 10:25am
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Sounds like you went to the same school of motherhood as mine. Her motto was if i could get out of bed I was going to school.
I think girls are influenced by the media a lot more than boys, they are trying to be little women, when store bring out bras for 4 yr olds, that is so wrong! 
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