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FionaO View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 November 2008 at 7:56pm

Ok, I need some serious advice.

My ds has had some issues feeding, first wasn't latching ok, we got that sorted, then he was a bit of a lazy feeder and I thought I had that sorted too, seen an lc she gave me some tricks and now when hungry he does go for it, he then normally settles ok afterwards - normall obviously he is not always the same.

I have been worried he does not feed enough and falls asleep after an hour or two of feeding due to tiredness not being full.

We give him a bottle last thing at night either ebm or formula so dh can feed him and my midwife thinks this is the cause of my problems - could this be right?

She seemed to say any feed i miss or substitute will cause problems. Very confused and emotional since I really thought he had been doing well this week


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MummyFreckle View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MummyFreckle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 8:16pm

Hi Fifi101...firstly congrats on your new bubba! What a lovely name!

I thought I would share my story with you - I had a terrible time with b/f Oli from the very beginning. My milk didnt come in until day 5, and even in all that time I hadnt been able to get Oli to latch on properly. We saw a paediatrician in hospital who told us our darling wee bubba was dehydrated and to give him a formula top up. So from very early on we were doing both...I would b/f as best I could, then if needed we would top him up with formula or ebm if I had been able to express anything. We tried really hard to just b/f but he wasnt get enough (he was a lazy sucker, not latching properly) and I wasnt producing enough. I was besides myself and found it incredibly hard - but after about 5 weeks of doing both, we decided to go fulltime onto formula.

I am NOT in any way trying to push that decision onto you, what I am trying to share is that you need to make the decisions that are best for you and bubba. It may be worth looking at getting a ChuChu teat - you can get these from your local Plunket Family Centre (I am not sure where you are located), but I would also be tempted to ask them for some advice. These teats are apparently the closest thing to a nipple and they encourage bubba to suckle the same way.  I guess if you are worried about then experiment for a couple of days, drop the bottle out and see if he improves, then if not you can go back to what works for you.

I think its important to realise that you are only 2 weeks into this......its a long road ahead and you need to find what works for you all (a happy mummy and daddy = a happy bubba and vice versa!)

I am sure that there are lots of other ladies that can offer more practical advise, but I just wanted to offer my support.

 

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blondy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blondy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 8:19pm
Big hugs! I'm sure other people might have more useful advice, but I just wanted to say that the first 6 weeks are really important for establishing your breastmilk supply - and of course your baby is what 'sets the pace'. From what I've heard, most MW or LC's don't recommend using a bottle until after 6 weeks, if you intend on either fully BFing or a mix of both. Your mw is right - any BF feeds you miss will mean you produce less milk, unless you are expressing to make up for a missed feed.

If you're really worried, maybe give the bottle a break until your supply is established at about 6 weeks? Having said all of this, I waited until 6 weeks to try Natalie on a bottle, and she won't have a bar of it, but I don't know whether that's down to timing, or just her?

ETA: Having re-read, I'm not sure whether you are giving a bottle because you think your DS hasn't had enough milk, or whether it is to share the feeding with your DH? Obviously if you are topping up with a bottle at the end of the day, then that's a different issue.

Edited by blondy
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FionaO View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FionaO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 8:34pm

Simsam your story sounds really similar - latching was a nightmare and took days and he still finds it hard.

I have a huge graze on one nipple now because of it, which is very painful.

I think I am just finding it hard deciding what to do for the best.


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DJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 9:10pm
If you really want to breastfeed then I would suggest dropping the bottle until you get it the bf sorted. A bottle at the end of the day won't make him sleep any longer - he has a really tiny tummy, and it can only hold so much.

Is he gaining weight and got wet nappies? if so, then he is getting enough milk from you. Trust your supply.

At this age his routine should be basically up feed, burp, nappy change, and back to bed within around 40mins. You can expect him to be tired if he is up for an hour or more.

Grazed nipples can be excrutiating (I thought breastfeeding in the first few weeks was more painful than childbirth), but it did get better quickly once we got latching sorted.

bfing is worth all the trouble at the beginning if you can make it work for you - but I agree with SimSaM - you've got to go with what works best for you and your family.

All the very best




Edited by DJ
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fattartsrock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fattartsrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 9:19pm
You are doign a great job, and no doubt doing it on next to no sleep, so go easy on yourself! As long as baby has plenty of wet nappies, and gaining some, dosen't have to be piles ,of weight, he is fine.

Your midwife is absolutely correct!

I agree with the above, about giving the bottle away till a wee bit later on. It does mess with your supply, and teats "give" milk faster than breast does so they get lazy.

Chu Chu teats are great, tho, as they have to suck to get the milk out in the same way as they do the breast.

If he falls asleep, while feeding, undress him a little to wake him and rub you thumb in circles in the palm of his hand to generate the sucking reflex (strange but true) or rub you finger almost in a tickle on his cheek/jaw under/beside his ear, does the same thing.

Also, nipple sheilds are great for helping the latch and letting your nipples heal a bit. Just sqyeeze a bit your milk into the end to help latch him on, and hey presto, you are away.

Also, with new bubbas, the one hour (or lessish) turnaround is a good rule of thumb, an hour to be up, fed, changed and down again.

I also had a lazy sucker who took 6 weeks before he latched onto my breast and fed from, he had been drinking EBM till then. I managed to BF him for 10 months. The first 6 weeks ish are the hardest, hugs to you. xxx

Edited by fattartsrock
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cat007 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cat007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 November 2008 at 10:25pm
I found that right from day one with my first, I could top him up at the end of the night with ebm in a bottle, as long as I also expressed at that feed to keep up my milk supply. I breastfed him until he was 6 months old - with only 1 bottle a day as well. I didnt notice him getting lazy with breastfeeding or anything.

However, with the twins, I had major problems trying to breastfeed and couldnt produce enough milk to feed them both. I tried breastfeeding one and bottle feeding the other and then swapping over at the next feed. They did become lazy and eventually refused to feed from me - they found the bottle easier and so I was forced to give up breastfeeding.

I think that you may be able to get away with just one bottle top-up a day but I suggest do it at the last feed of the day - then baby is so hungry in the first feed of the day (after sleeping longer at night) that baby will happily take from the breast. It is a little risky though but completely up to you.

Do remember that whatever you choose, breastfeeding will change when you hit the 6 week mark and you might find it a lot easier then.

Also remember - do whatever suits you and your family best. You are doing really well - keep up the good work!
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tishy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tishy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2008 at 8:03am
Originally posted by cat007 cat007 wrote:

Also remember - do whatever suits you and your family best. You are doing really well - keep up the good work!


ditto to this.

My twins were 1.6kgs and 2.2kgs at birth and we spent the first 8 weeks topping each feed up with EBM. Our typical feeding routine was BF, wake/burp, nappy change, BF, wake/burp, EBM. The EBM stopped at 6 weeks and the second BF stopped 2 weeks later.

About a month after this we started giving them a bottle of EBM at the 10pm feed and I would express after this. I continued to BF until 7 months and never found them to have any confusion.
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FionaO View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FionaO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2008 at 10:51am

thanks ladies!!

Interesting about the up, burp change and down thing, there is no chance I can get him fed and down within an hour, he just takes much longer than that, typically at night by the time he settles its about two hours.

When I stop feeding and settle him a bit he looks all sleepy until I put him down then he starts crying, because of his slow feeding I am then not sure if he is being fussy or is still hungry, often then though if I offer the breast he manages one or two swallows before it just starts being comfort sucking.

We do get a lot of wet nappies though so will see what happens at the next weigh in.


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jaz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2008 at 6:49pm
There could be a number of reasons why he wakes or doesn't settle. Maybe he has wind or needs a dummy to suck in order to settle.

The advise I was given from the midwife running our antenatal classes was to introduce one bottle a day from four weeks if you wanted to be able to combine breast and bottle. This worked for us and I gave it to Caleb about 6-7pm when he was usually cluster feeding. I had very sore cracked nipples and it gave them a break.

It can take six weeks to get breast feeding well established so I'd just give it time.
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Maya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2008 at 7:29pm
I agree with Jaz re: introducing one bottle a day by four weeks if you want to be able to do both, I missed the window of opportunity with Maya and Chiara and no amount of coaxing or encouraging could get either of them to take a bottle.

But I do think for now you might be best to stick with the breastfeeding and try the bottle again in a couple of weeks just to give bub a good chance to learn the whole breastfeeding thing well.

It shouldn't be taking 2 hours to feed him, If you let him suckle for 1-2 hours at a go he'll end up getting overtired and not feeding properly and your breasts won't have time to properly 'fill' between feeds.

I was always told no more than 20 mins on each side, and if bub falls asleep to use the techniques Fattarts mentioned. I'd do 20 mins on the first side, change, 20 mins on the second and then back to bed at that age. As feeding got more effective the feeding time would be shorter and I'd introduce a bit of playtime.

Confusing stuff this feeding business! But stick with it, like the others have said it does settle down with time!
Maya Grace (28/02/03)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote weegee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2008 at 3:23pm
bump

Mum to JJ, 4 July 2008 & Addie, 28 July 2010
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