Coffee Catchup 5th May - CHCH with Dorothy Waide

Hi Dorothy, you mentioned to me that you had an info sheet for packing for long haul travel with a baby? I am heading to UK with my then 10 month old..... Any tips for dealing with time zone changes word also be appreciated! Many thanks

Edited by Stacey144022 - 06 May 2014 at 8:55pm

Hi Dorothy,
Thank you so much for taking the time to come to Christchurch. I must admit I found it hard to concentrate on Monday about the engulfing & cupping strategy with so much going on, but some of that is my hearing.
I am not sure how much to write, but you said the more details the better, so here goes….

My son William is almost 7 months old. He is breastfed and has been on solids for 4 weeks (which have blocked him up a little). He is a big boy – 10kgs. He sleeps from about 7.15pm until about 6am (give or take 15minutes either side)
I am super struggling with his day sleeps, also due to having a 4 year old and having to do preschool runs 3 days per week. On the days that we don’t have preschool it is also tricky because Joseph is going through a stage of not liking playing on his own, and I don’t like having to put him in front of a DVD for over an hour in the afternoon while trying to settle William.
I don’t remember the last time I have successfully got him to have 2 day sleeps in his cot. Often trying to settle him for afternoon sleep for 1+ hours, and then resorting to going for a walk for 60minutes

Our “routine” at the moment is:
6.15am          Awake, Playing in cot
7.00am          Up, changed
7.10am          Milk – good solid 5-8minute guzzle
7.45am          Breakfast with big brother
8.45am          Into car for preschool run
(Ok on way to preschool as Joseph keeps him awake, but falls asleep on way home)
9.15am          Home (30minute round trip)
9.45am          Milk – topping up/suckling until asleep (approx. 20minutes)
10.00am     Into cot asleep
11.15am     Awake
11.45am     Up after playing in his cot
(I wait until he starts crying to get up ever hopeful he will go back to sleep)
          Milk – brief 1minute snack
2.00pm          Milk – topping up/ but won’t fall asleep
2.30pm          Into cot, but awake
          Playing/grizzling > crying
3.15pm          Into car for preschool run
(falls asleep in car on way to preschool 15minutes, then is woken when Joseph gets into car & won’t go back to sleep)
4.45pm          Milk
5.30pm          Dinner
6.00pm          Bath
Feed – starts off strong, then suckles until asleep
I try to stop him suckling but he will cry until reattached, then drink for 30secs & suckle again.
Often as he hasn’t had an afternoon sleep (or only a tiny nap) he is exhausted at this point, so it is hard to keep him awake to feed at all.
(These 60+minute bed time feeds are hard, as my other son wants me too, and also husband is going away in 2 weeks)
7-7.20pm     Bed –sleeps through resettling himself

Thank you. Any advice you would have on our routine, settling William to sleep without the need to suckle and how to stop the preschool runs interfering with sleep would be much appreciated!

Sorry for the novel!

Kerry 
                   

Hi Dorothy
My boy, Alexander, is 8.5 months old. Ever since he was a new born we have struggled to get him to sleep in his cot. Currently, I spend around an hour a couple of times a night trying to resettle him and put him back in his cot (after a change/feed) and frequently he ends up co-sleeping with us. We have the same problem during the day; if I get him to sleep and put him in his cot, about 1/2 the time he will stay alseep, otherwise he will wake and start crying. When he does sleep in his cot during the day, it is usually for 20-30mins max (about twice a day at the moment)-he wont resetlle after that. Once I get him to sleep, I wait until he is well asleep before putting him in his cot (time to do this varies). If I just put him in his cot when he is not asleep then he will sit up and cry until I pick him up. I learnt how to wrap him properly only a few weeks before he started rolling and he did sleep better when he was wrapped. I'm not keen on the crying to sleep method, but am open to all other ideas (I've had advice from plunket and read books, but have not found a solution that works for us and Alex). I realise now we could have perhaps done things differently at the begining, however, I would love to try to improve his sleeping (and mine) now, rather than waiting until he gets older.

Thanks!
Abigail

Hi Dorothy (I somehow managed to post as a guest, can you delete above post so that this is assigned to my name)
"Where to start? Thank you for a very informative session on Monday. I do not retain information particularly well by listening, so I hope you may be able to provide advice (& an age appropriate routine) in writing that I can follow and refer to.
My 11 month old daughter (Emelia)is waking up 3-5 times a night and resists being to put to bed in her cot. (I think this may be due to ongoing ear infections and associating lying down with discomfort - I will await the grateful loan of your safety sleep to deal with the cot issue and will continue to use the elevated pram). During the night I am currently not able to settle her down without feeding her. She has only once slept through the night but the issues have escalated since November - (I believe my high stress levels at that time kicked it all off and it's getting worse rather than better) She shares a room with her 3 year old sister (Lily) with our bedroom and all living areas in close proximity with doors that don't shut (old house & hubby took some doors off and hasn't put them back) My husband is not particularly tolerant to crying which is why up until now it has been easier (to appease the rest of the family) to feed her to calm her down to allow the rest of the house to sleep. I work 2 different jobs at home in the evenings - with Emelia being unsettled I often find myself up well past midnight trying to get work finished and then up several times after that to her and often awake for the day anytime from 5-6.00am. I am reaching breaking point. Maternity leave for my main day job finishes at the end of May. I’m concerned that I'm not going to cope unless I can get some improvement. I am hoping that just patting her bottom will be sufficient to replace the cupping (my wrists started aching when I tried to replicate the cupping after only 5-10 seconds). From the info I did take in from yesterday - I'm concerned about prolonged crying (that I suspect will occur if boob is not given to resettle) and the potential to disturb her sisters sleep (she is a great sleeper and I don't want to create more issues) I do believe the more times she wakes and is fed the more she will wake and that this cycle needs to be broken. Prior to coming along yesterday I was thinking I may have to wean her completely. I am happy to continue feeding but ideally 1 (or no) feeds during the night. Despite listening to you yesterday I just don't know where to start – is it a matter of just persevering even if the high pitched screaming goes on for extended periods of time? I did try engulfing as you suggested, but she really resisted this and became very agitated and the screaming escalated.   I also wonder that she may not be 100% well again (teething/ears? We've gone through almost a bottle of Pamol since mid March) which could also be contributing. I have taken on board your suggestion for food before boob at breakfast time. Any further advice would be most gratefully accepted. I do tend to have a lot on (appointments, errands to run, friends/kids to catch up with - I have set aside everything (except work and taking Lily to preschool) next week towards putting your suggestions into place and open to extend this if necessary. I do need to find a balance. I don’t expect it to be easy but I can not continue with the status quo. Thank you in advance for your help to improve our situation (and in turn improve my mental state) Regards Michelle

Hi Dorothy,

Thanks for the informative talk on Monday in Christchurch. My question is on food. My nearly 11 month old will often only eat a small amount of her main meal, and as I feel she would still be hungry I offer her some fruit which she gobbles up. I would prefer that she eats a proper dinner rather than a nibble then a feed on fruit. Is there a way I can stop this? I have also had trouble tracking down the menus that you mentioned are on your forum as I would like to get away from so much bread for lunch. Is this something that we need to pay for to have access to? Thanks for your help.

Lea

I'll try again....

Hi Dorothy,
Thank you so much for all of your helpful advice on Monday, there was a lot t take in but it was very helpful.
A lot of the questions above cover some of my issues so I will look forward to reading the replies. Here is my experience:

I used the engulf/cup method last night at bedtime with my 9 month old daughter and to my delight she settled and fell asleep in my arms within 5 mins. That was amazing as she usually breastfeeds to sleep and I've been trying to get out of that habit but never really known how. She woke up when I put her in her cot but I got her back to sleep without picking her up. She woke 2 hours later and my husband resettled her using the same technique. She usually wakes 3-4 times a night and I feed her back to sleep but last night she didn't wake until 2am. I fed her at this point but took her of and put her in bed awake (but drowsy), left her and she went to sleep until 6am. Again I fed her and she slept again until nearly 8 when I gave her solid breakfast and a milk feed straight after. I was really pleased with this routine as it was a huge improvement but I would like to have avoided the 2 am feed and want to know if I should have fed her at 6, got her up for the day or tried to resettle? Also she is really bad at sleeping during the day, only 30-40 mins at a push sometimes twice a day if I'm lucky but not always. I have a 3 year old sons too so find it difficult to spend lots of time settling her to sleep when there is constant interruption and distraction.

I look forward to your feedback,
Thanks,
Claire

HI Stacey
The key to travelling is to go into the new time zone as soon as you can. In my experience I mix and match until I put them to bed in their new time zone. I then accept this as their night time and when they wake in the mornings you are into the new time zone. As your baby is 10 months ideally you will not feed overnight but resettle. The quicker you get into resettling over night the quicker they will adjust.

For every hour difference it takes a day. In saying this it is easier to change into the new time zone when there is a big difference in the times, the shorter the time difference the harder it is.

Here are my notes on what to take on board. ALso remember to take pegs and muslins to make a tent if the light is to bright.

Packing_for_long_haul_flight_for_babyOHbaby!May_2014.docx

Hi i have adjusted your routine slightly so see how this works. I have also attached my notes on introducing solids and vegetables. I would suggest using millet mixed with milk and you can add some fruit - ratio I use is 1 tablespoon of cereal to 1 teaspoon of fruit. Millet is good for getting the bowels working. Because you have two drop offs this is difficult to work with (as you know), so you are going to find that he will probably have two band aid naps and 1 long nap. Not ideal but thats about all you can do. ALso I would always suggest that he needs to eat within 30 minutes of waking from a sleep however, again that would mean he is having lunch around 9.45am which is too early. WIth your routine of having to drop off your toddler to preschool you are not going to get two naps in a day, but as long as that middle of the day nap is long you will be able to work through it. WIth regard to the night time I would be putting him to sleep slightly earlier that your toddler so your toddler can play while you feed or be with you and then you can put the baby to bed and then have time with your toddler

As I don't know you or your baby I may be extending him too much, however you do need to get a routine that works for you. Your toddler can be involved in the evening putting your baby to bed.

The goal to make it easier is not to put him to sleep on the breast, Try removing before he goes to sleep and then the next step would be to feed, then sleeping bag and then hold until he is falling off to sleep.

The next step would be to feed, sleeping bag and then start the settling in the cot.
I have also attached two general guideline charts for feeding/sleeping routines to have a look at

6.15am          Awake, Playing in cot
7.00am          Up, changed
7.30am          Breakfast with big brother, followed by breast feed

8.45am          Into car for preschool run
(Ok on way to preschool as Joseph keeps him awake, but falls asleep on way home)
9.15am          Home (30minute round trip)
PLay time he has only had a band aid nap so leave him to have some fun

11.30am Lunch - Vegetables with a good protein.   Offer water in zippy cup
12.00pm Breast
12.15pm    Nap - minimum 1 1/2 hours resettle if he wakes (this is important as this will be his main nap of the day)

1.45pm Wakes
2.15pm Milk feed then plays
3.15pm          Into car for preschool run
(falls asleep in car on way to preschool 15minutes, then is woken when Joseph gets into car & won’t go back to sleep)

4.00pm          Dinner, then milk       
Bath
Milk feed

6.30pm Bed for the night




Introducing_Solids_-_OHbaby!May2014.pdfOption_One_Three_Meals_a_Day_5-8mthsOHbaby!May2014CHCH.pdfOption_Two_Three_Meals_a_Day_5-8mthsOHbabCHCHyMay2014.pdfDorothys_Vegetables_-_OHBaby!May2014CHCH.pdf

HI Abigail
We need to change or offer a solution that will work for you. So these are my suggestions. Ideally his wake time will be 3hour or slightly longer.
His wake time routine will look like this

wakes, can wait up to 30 minutes for food
Solids, then straight after offer breast
Plays
Top up
Sleeping bag
Nap

His room needs to be dark - i am wondering whether he is easily stimulated or very alert so if the room is not dark then he will not learn to sleep for naps or overnight. I tend to trial either blacking out the windows or if you have a camera monitor then placing a large dark blanket over the head end of the cot will give him that darkness feeling. I would not suggest doing this for a long period of time, it is just about seeing if this helps to close him down for his naps.

20 minute naps tend to make me wonder if he has tummy issues.

When you resettle ideally you will not change or feed him as changing a nappy will wake him up and feeding at this age would be your last resort.

Have you thought of trying a safeTsleep this may give him the security that he sounds like he needs - this is what the swaddling would have done. With the safeTsleep he can still roll from tummy to back .

You haven't mentioned how you put him to bed to self settle. Unfortunately it is healthy for a baby to cry before they go to sleep- it is just how you do it and how long you do it for.   Leaving him to cry for longer than 20 minutes will not work as if he doesn't fall asleep around the 20 minute mark he needs your help
With regard to the 20 minute mark you can intervene whenever you want, you can also be in the room, he can be in your arms in the engulf hold.    

I don't believe you need to have changed your beginning as this is how you parent but you can certainly go forward. I have attached the settling notes, but I do wonder if you need more support doing this.
12_wk_general_settling_&_resettlingOHbaby!CHCHMay2014_.docx

HI Kerry
You haven't mentioned how old your baby is so it is rather difficult to answer your question.

Under 12 weeks i do encourage attachment parenting or 4th trimester which means sleeping in arms so you do both self settling and resettling in arms.

As long as when you are doing this remember that your body becomes the bed therefore you keep your body still. When you are settling and resettling in arms you need to give them the right and ability to find their sleep before intervening with cupping and shushing or offering them a dummy.

IF you imagine that it takes approximately 20 minutes for them to fall asleep, then the crying can be off and on for that time. If you think that when you go to bed you read a book, mediate, watch tv - in other words we don't just fall asleep we need to relax, and then nod off - babies are no different. It is healthy for a baby to cry before they go to sleep, however it is not healthy to leave them alone or to let them go longer than 20 minutes.