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daikini 
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 Topic: Supply and demand
Posted: 15 February 2007 at 7:19pm |
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I'm a little worried about my milk supply. The last 10 days or so, Xavier has got really fussy with his feeds - pulling on and off, not feeding as much at a time, really mucking around. I've noticed I'm not getting as full between feeds (particularly overnight) and I'm not sure if my supply has changed, so Xavier is feeding differently and therefore reducing my supply further; or if he's feeding differently, reducing my supply and its going round in circles.
I rung Plunketline Tuesday morning, and had a chat to a Plunket nurse. She said that its a bit of a "chicken or the egg" situation... could be him being fussy, could be my supply, could be my hormones changing the taste of the milk... basically, to get my supply back up I've got to keep eating well (especially proteins) and make sure I continue to have enough to drink, and get as much rest as possible. This should help my body to kickstart manufacturing more milk. I also need to start putting Xavier to the breast as much as he'll go so demand can boost supply as well.
Two days on, and not much has changed... He'll go 4 hours after feeding off one side for 5 minutes or he'll feed for 15 minutes of each side and then be hungry 2 hours later. We had started him on Gaviscon (suspecting reflux) which seemed to help, but a week later its now making his spilling worse.
Nat is wondering if its possible Xavier has a mild allergy to something I'm eating... any suggestions? Nat's niece and nephew are violently allergic to dairy, and we've just heard about how some of the family are allergic to gluten.
Edited by becca.l
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Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys
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busymum
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Posted: 15 February 2007 at 7:51pm |
Hmmm well I was going to suggest you increase fats in your diet - such as whole milk and yoghurt - to make your milk more filling. But if there are family allergies you'll need to be careful with that one.
At arounds 3 months your breasts should be settling down a bit. The nutrition increases and baby gets better at drinking, making his feeds quicker. You'll especially notice your "small-ness" in the evenings/nights if he is mostly sleeping through. In fact I can't wait to get to that stage again because then I won't need breastpads anymore or a bra at night! 
The other thing that happens is that a baby that age becomes more aware of his surroundings and they get nosey - and therefore pop on and off. It's frustrating but also embarrassing at times lol. You could try a few feeds in a room by yourself to see if that makes him less fussy?
If you're like me you'll be getting your period back soon and that can create a milk strike if baby doesn't like the change in taste (hormones). Hannah started screaming and refused everything. Briona didn't care.
Which leads me to some questions... has Xavier been upset at feed times or otherwise off colour during the day? Are his nappies funny colour/smell?
The only other thing I can think of for now is if he's just mucking around, take him off until he's properly hungry. Then he'll suckle better and also not waste so much time.
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daikini
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Posted: 15 February 2007 at 8:32pm |
 busymum wrote:
Hmmm well I was going to suggest you increase fats in your diet - such as whole milk and yoghurt - to make your milk more filling. But if there are family allergies you'll need to be careful with that one. |
I thought about that... Nathaniel and his siblings, and Josiah, are all fine with dairy products... its Nat's brother's children (the older 2 of 3) that are allergic. Nat was wondering if Xavier has a mild allergy because the amount he spills changes from day to day.
busymum wrote:
At arounds 3 months your breasts should be settling down a bit. The nutrition increases and baby gets better at drinking, making his feeds quicker. You'll especially notice your "small-ness" in the evenings/nights if he is mostly sleeping through. In fact I can't wait to get to that stage again because then I won't need breastpads anymore or a bra at night! |
The time I notice my "small-ness" (great description!) the most is first thing in the morning, when you can't tell that he's only fed of one side during the night. Current routine: feed both sides around 8pm, in bed 30 minutes after finishing, feed both sides sometime between 11pm and midnight and back to bed, feed one side between 5:30am and 6am and back to bed (he doesn't wake enough to have both sides), wake up around 7:30am.
busymum wrote:
The other thing that happens is that a baby that age becomes more aware of his surroundings and they get nosey - and therefore pop on and off. It's frustrating but also embarrassing at times lol. You could try a few feeds in a room by yourself to see if that makes him less fussy? |
Thanks for the suggestion... trying it, no difference. 
busymum wrote:
If you're like me you'll be getting your period back soon and that can create a milk strike if baby doesn't like the change in taste (hormones). Hannah started screaming and refused everything. Briona didn't care. |
Yeah, I think that might be happening here too. I did a pregnancy test the other day (just in case  Liz) which was negative.
busymum wrote:
Which leads me to some questions... has Xavier been upset at feed times or otherwise off colour during the day? Are his nappies funny colour/smell? |
He gets upset during feedtimes, and when its time for bed and he's tired and hungry and can't sleep because he's hungry, and won't feed because he's tired. No difference (in contents or amount) in his dirty nappies, and slightly fewer wet nappies.
busymum wrote:
The only other thing I can think of for now is if he's just mucking around, take him off until he's properly hungry. Then he'll suckle better and also not waste so much time. |
Thanks for the suggestion... trying it, no difference.
I really appreciate your thoughtful post, Teresa. I'm getting so frustrated with it all.
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Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys
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lizzle
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Posted: 15 February 2007 at 8:45pm |
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I smiled when I read that note Becca! and I have no suggestionsabout the other stuff sorry!
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jack_&_charli
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Posted: 15 February 2007 at 9:59pm |
i have nothing to suggest either becks, sorry.
just wanted to say that i'm also wondering about my supply...i seem to have that 'smallness' first thing before charli's even fed and that's from 7.30pm-8am!! we've been giving her a top up of formula at night as i don't think i have enough at the end of the day to fill her.
she has also been mucking around on the boob for the last month on and off and lately seems to only want to drink from one side
oh the joys of motherhood!!
sorry i haven't been any help, hope someone can suggest something to help xavier and yourself 
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mum2paris
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Posted: 15 February 2007 at 10:12pm |
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It is very common for babies to favour one side and only want to drink from that side and alot are just plain stubborn - sometimes you can trick them by starting on their favoured side and then sliding them along so they are int he same position but drinking from the other breast. .. mostly it's just perserverance.
With supply - as your milk supply settles your breasts will not get all full and engorged unless you happen to miss a feed. usually they will only make as much as baby needs therefore will not get overfull in between but can still feel soft etc.
If you have made sure that there is nothing else going on with him then it's hard.. I went through that with Ayja and Paris - and found that they always started to fuss just as i let down, they would pull away and scream and not want to go back on. - he he, learnt with Ayja to hold a towel over it for a min or so til the flow calmed down because my let down was so strong they would choke and came to anticipate the choking so would pull away before then. This could be it.
with feeding.. like you said he is variable in how often he wakes etc.. if he's on demand feeding it can be like that - ie they can feed as often as they want but not usually go for more than 4 hours.Hope some of that might have made sense.. lol.
here's hoping it passes. It calmed down with Ayja once i figured it out what the prob was - i wish i had figured it out with Paris cos all my problems started with her feeding after the 6 wk growth spurt increased my milk supply and it did the same with ayja only this time i just kept going with how i always did and she came round once things settled down... if he's spilling up alot after feeds this could be the reason too cos he possibly gets heaps in a short amount of time or gets wind trapped which could be why he wakes pretty soon after and they tend to feed to comfort themselves and try to get rid of the pain. could also be why he fusses cos he wants to suck for the comfort but not actually wanting the milk.
sorry novel over..
Edited by mum2paris
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Janine and her 2 cool chicks, Paris & Ayja
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daikini
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Posted: 15 February 2007 at 10:14pm |
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Thanks Liz and Vanessa. I appreciate you having a look, even if you haven't got any suggestions. Vanessa, maybe something that's said will help you?
I've got a suggestion about Charli having a preferred side (but it's hard to do): offer the "wrong" side first every time. If she's really really hungry, she'll take it because she won't care enough about which side it comes from to refuse her food source altogether. As a result of minor complications after surgery to one of my breasts, my kids have seemed to find it harder to feed from that side. I had to offer the difficult side first every time with Kiya from 4 months, and with Josiah from 6 weeks. I haven't had to make it the first side every time yet with Xavier but he's only 3 months old so I'm just waiting to see what happens.
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Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys
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nikkitheknitter
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Posted: 15 February 2007 at 10:20pm |
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daikini
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Posted: 15 February 2007 at 10:33pm |
mum2paris wrote:
It is very common for babies to favour one side and only want to drink from that side and alot are just plain stubborn - sometimes you can trick them by starting on their favoured side and then sliding them along so they are int he same position but drinking from the other breast. .. mostly it's just perserverance. |
If this is for me, Xavier doesn't have a preferred side at the moment - he's just as fussy with both! If it's for Vanessa, I completely agree.
mum2paris wrote:
With supply - as your milk supply settles your breasts will not get all full and engorged unless you happen to miss a feed. usually they will only make as much as baby needs therefore will not get overfull in between but can still feel soft etc. |
Even missing a feed doesn't make a difference
mum2paris wrote:
If you have made sure that there is nothing else going on with him then it's hard.. I went through that with Ayja and Paris - and found that they always started to fuss just as i let down, they would pull away and scream and not want to go back on. - he he, learnt with Ayja to hold a towel over it for a min or so til the flow calmed down because my let down was so strong they would choke and came to anticipate the choking so would pull away before then. This could be it. |
I had this problem with Kiya, and used to express into a flannel until the flow had settled. It hasn't happened the same with the boys... when Xavier is being fussy, he won't even latch on. He's started to act a little panicked (arms flying, big eyes, crying) if I start to lay him down on my arm like I'm going to feed him when he doesn't want to - even if he was feeding happily right before and I've taken him off to burp and change sides.
mum2paris wrote:
Also how often is he feeding and does he - if he's not drinking much from you, he possibly wouldn't sleep as long, so therefore wont have as much energy to drink very long the next time which means he wont settle for long again and so it goes it's that "snack-n-snooze" kinda thing which could also be affecting your supply as you won't make as much cos he's not drinking. |
Before Tuesday, Xavier's feeds were every 3.5-4 hours, except at night when there is a 5-6 hour stretch. At the moment (I'm putting to the breast as often as possible) his feeds are 2-4 hours apart. There's no consistency to how long he'll feed, nor is it related to the time of day. Sometimes Xavier will feed for 2-5 minutes total and then go 4 hours before he's hungry (including a 2 hour sleep), othertimes he'll feed for 20-30 minutes and be hungry 2 hours later.
mum2paris wrote:
Hope some of that might have made sense.. lol. here's hoping it passes. It calmed down with Ayja once i figured it out what the prob was - i wish ihad figured it out with Paris cos all my problems started with her feeding after the 6 wk growth spurt increased my milk supply. |
Thanks Janine. I'm hoping it passes soon too! I see my Plunket nurse for Xavier's 3 month checkup next Friday, so we'll see what she has to say if its still carrying on then.
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Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys
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daikini
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Posted: 15 February 2007 at 10:34pm |
Thanks Nikki
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Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys
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daikini
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Posted: 15 February 2007 at 10:46pm |
LOL Janine, you added this after I quoted and replied to your post!
mumtoparis wrote:
...if he's spilling up alot after feeds this could be the reason too cos he possibly gets heaps in a short amount of time or gets wind trapped which could be why he wakes pretty soon after and they tend to feed to comfort themselves and try to get rid of the pain. could also be why he fusses cos he wants to suck for the comfort but not actually wanting the milk. |
Xavier does spill quite a lot after feeds (that's why we suspected reflux and got him started on Gaviscon) but it isn't as soon after finishing as it was with Josiah. Often, he doesn't spill until around an hour after his last feed, having burped right after finishing. What he's bringing up is partially clotted and stringy, not the even-coloured liquid of right after feeding.
He has a dummy, and he takes it happily when he's not hungry and just wants to suck. Xavier seems happy to have dummy rather than booby for comfort sucking as long as he's getting cuddled, or is in bed.
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Becca, mum of 2 girls & 3 boys
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busymum
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Posted: 16 February 2007 at 7:45am |
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Most of the troubles seem reflux related - especially grizzling at feed-times. Perhaps get another check with the Doc for more ideas? I don't have high hopes attached to Plunket sorry, not sure how La Leache would be with this?
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Supply and demand
