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clover View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 January 2012 at 8:17pm
My DS is an amazing little boy, but a terrible sleeper. He simply won't be on his own.

He was fine, waking a couple of times a night, quick BF then straight back down, 20 minutes max. That gradually deteriorated to the point where I couldn't get him into bed at the beginning of the night at all and we would end up either leaving him up for hours until he eventually fell asleep on me or we'd take him for a drive. He'd fall asleep, we'd transfer him to his cot then he'd promptly wake an hour later and I'd end up having to sleep on the couch with him because he'd only sleep on top of me.

We've progressed a bit. I can now get him down in the evening by sitting with him on a chair in his room, takes anything from 20 minutes to an hour and a half but I will get him down. However, he then usually wakes every 45 minutes after that, I pick him up, he goes straight back to sleep and we repeat it 45 minutes later.

CIO does not work for either of us. We did try it and he developed an absolute fear of his bedroom and cot, we ended up having to move his cot into our room and it took a long time to even get him back into the cot at all.

I know the problem, he can't self settle, he thinks he needs me, and he needs to go to sleep in his cot. But I'm at a loss as to how I achieve it. I can't put him down at any stage of drowzy because as soon as he realises he in the cot he sits up. If I put him in awake and try and pat him to sleep he just sits or stands up.

So pretty much around 11pm every night he ends up co sleeping with us (he now will sleep next to me), but still doesn't sleep well and wakes many times for a boobie or to sit up!

Any suggestions (except leaving him to cry) gratefully received!
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tashbet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tashbet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2012 at 8:44pm
I am having the same problem with my daughter as well. Plus i am pregnant. She is one years old. She started developing this problem at 11 months old.

What I do now. Is that I wait until she is in a deep sleep on my bed and then move her to her cot. She is fine until 2am when she realises that she is in her own bed. That is when I have a pre-made bottle of formula ready to give to her. Than i pass her the bottle and she goes back to sleep.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tashbet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2012 at 8:46pm
I am not a big fan of letting them cry. however, my friend had the same problem with her son. She just let him cry for a long time in his bedroom and then he eventually settled down. But it took a long time for him to settle down. He didnt get out of the habit until being 16 months. Unfortunately, we just moved to sydney and we are staying in an apartment until i get all my papers sorted in new zealand. I cannot let my daughter cry as it will disturb other tennants.
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maya22 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maya22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2012 at 9:06pm
"But I'm at a loss as to how I achieve it. I can't put him down at any stage of drowzy because as soon as he realises he in the cot he sits up. If I put him in awake and try and pat him to sleep he just sits or stands up."

If he sits or stands up, then so what? You can't be going in every time to lie him back down, that makes an excellent jack in the box game. He will figure out that when he is tired he will lie down, you can't do that one for him.

I had the same thing with DS2, figured out that it was turning into a game for him. If he sat up, or stood up, I still left the room, continued doing what I had always done. If he was getting really upset, then I would pick him up and cuddle him, then pop him back into bed. Repeat and repeat and repeat. There was no point in having a battle over lying him down, he was always going to solve that by getting back up and we were both going to end in tears.
DS1 July 2007
DS2 Nov 2010
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clover View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2012 at 9:17pm
Ok I need to expand on that one, I put him down, he sits up, I leave the room, he gets immediately hysterical. You're totally right though, if he's doing it for fun I ignore it, the problem is I won't even have the door shut and he'll be beside himself.
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shellgirl View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shellgirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2012 at 9:27pm
From about 8 months my DS would only go to sleep on my knee (in a rocking chair in his room) for both his day and night sleeps and then I would transfer him to his cot (prior to that he would self settle after his night feed). I should note he was only waking once a night for a feed though unlike your wee man.

I started night weaning my DS at about 11 months when I got pregnant again (I wanted the longest possible time to encourage him to sleep well before the new bubs arrives). The weaning went fine, but he was still waking each night and needing cuddling back to sleep. It started taking longer and longer to get him back down so I decided to try getting him to fall asleep in his bed. We are not a CC or CIO family so that wasn't something we were prepared to try.

Anyway what I started doing was cuddling him over the side of the cot and lying him down and rubbing his back. So I was there with him giving him comfort, but not picking him up. He did cry, but it was more a protest cry than an upset cry and I was okay with the crying providing I was there offering him comfort. When he calmed I'd sit on a chair next to his cot and then repeat as needed until he fell asleep. It took over two hours the first night, about 1.5 hours the next night and then very quickly it came down to just needing me to go in, lie him down and then I could leave and he would go back to sleep on his own. Within about a week he was sleeping through most nights.

I do believe he was at a point where he was ready to do this and that it wouldn't have worked if I had done it before he some understanding that I wanted him to sleep (rather than just thinking why wont Mum do what I want).

It wasn't until about 2 months ago (when he was about 15 months) that we finally got him reliably self-settling at the beginning of his naps/night time sleep and I still sometimes need to stay with him for a bit in the evenings, so for us it wasn't necessary to deal with all the self settling at once and it worked much better concentrating on one aspect at a time.

It is still not perfect and we have the odd night where he wakes and wont settle for ages, but I follow the same steps where I don't pick him up, but instead lie him down and rub his back for a bit and stay as long as I'm needed (sometimes I leave a bit soon and he lets me know pretty quickly he wants me back in there again!!) Usually this only lasts a night or two before he settles into sleeping through again.

Oh, and the other thing we have worked out is that if he does wake and cry out it is best to try and settle him really quickly as the longer he is left the more he wakes up and the longer it takes to get him back to sleep. If we get to him straight away he will often go straight back to sleep.

Hope that you find something that works for you soon and that there might be something a little helpful in my novel above .

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newme View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote newme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2012 at 9:31pm
My suggestions would be to just do what works.

Self settling is over-rated, and physiologically unnatural at 10 months. Who cares if you put him down in his cot once he is fully asleep? I know it is hard now, but it won't be forever.

In regards to the 45 minute waking during the night, I would suggest that you go in next to him just before he is due to wake, and pat his back or jiggle his mattress or something so that he doesn't actually wake. This will help him to get over fully waking at every sleep cycle. Have you read 'The No-Cry Sleep Solution'? It is a great book with heaps of gentle technniques.

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JoJames View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoJames Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2012 at 9:53pm
www.sleepstore.co.nz have some great sleep advice that might help.

definately try shellgirls advice, don't pick him up again after you put him down in the cot just pat and shush him while in his cot, if he stands up, gently lie him down again. Say 'its time for sleep' It will definately take time because he's so used to falling asleep in your arms, and feel like its not working, but you will get there.
Also does he have a comforter toy/blanket/dummy, if he has something in his cot it may help him to go back to sleep after waking, maybe even something that smells of you will help.
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clover View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 January 2012 at 9:19pm
Shellgirl, thank you so much for taking the time for such a detailed response, that sounds so much like my DS and I think that your approach may well work for us as well. This evening I spent an hour and a half sitting in a chair with him before he finally went to sleep,I think trying your way for a week or so is worth a shot.

Newme, thanks for that, I do agree and that's the approach I've always taken, 'just do what works'. It is just that he is having really disturbed sleeps and the quality of his night sleep is so poor that it is affecting his days so I think it is time to try and sort it. I have no issue at all getting up to him during the night a couple of times if that is what he needs, but waking every 45 minutes - 1 hour isn't good for him. I might try sitting in there and trying to get him to skip into another cycle, will only work before I go to bed of course. I have read the no cry sleep solution and did find it useful for weaning him off feeding to sleep but not so much for the actual sleep.

Thanks JoJames. Unfortunately although he is very attached and cuddly with me he won't attach to any object. He's had a teddy and a blanket in his cot since 4 months but pays them little attention at all.

Thanks everyone, some helpful stuff here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maya22 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2012 at 8:04am
We introduced the cuddly at that age, and put it in between us during feeding and story times. He needs something that will fit in his hand and he can chew on, have a look on the sleep store for a cuski, and you will see the kind of thing.

DS2 has really bonded with his cuski, he loves the knot in the hat, he rubs it on his face during sleepy feeds, and he sucks on the knot once in bed.

Maybe try putting knots in the blankie so he has something to hold onto, sleep with it under your pjs and have it between you for feeds, and see if that helps him adopt it, and give him an option during the night that isn't you.

Edited by maya22
DS1 July 2007
DS2 Nov 2010
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MamaT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MamaT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2012 at 9:53am
I found DS went through the exact same thing at about that age. For us, we just continued what we were doing as I believe if I had of tried any sort of "sleep plan" it would have only made things worse.
It did take a few weeks, but eventually he went back to his usual wakings of 3-4hour (rather than the 45min, like your wee one).

From other Mum's I have spoken to, it can be a bit of a developmental phase and quite common, I think it is about this age that separation anxiety is at its worst.
 
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clover View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2012 at 4:28pm
Thanks maya22, a friend has cuskies for her twins so I might try one.

MammaT I think you might be right. He is super clingy and he started pulling up and cruising about a month ago, crawling on Christmas day and started standing on his own today. I think his wee brain is just so busy it can't switch off!
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kandk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kandk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2012 at 10:44pm
Get two cuddlies! You'd hate to lose it once he got attached to it...

Edited by kandk

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clover View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 January 2012 at 11:32am
Good idea!
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