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FionaS View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 October 2007 at 11:51am
Ok so I spoke with our doctor today regarding Elle’s blood results. She said that her iron level is one of the lowest she has ever seen. She also mentioned that she had raised lymphocytes which indicate a viral infection. Apparently her tummy bug wouldn’t have caused this and as Elle hasn’t been sick other than that, it is possible that the lymphocytes are high due to some kind of inflammatory condition. My doctor specially mentioned celiac disease.

The plan is to give her the iron supplements for a month, then get more blood work done. If the iron is not coming up + the lymphocytes are still raised we will need to examine possible inflammatory diseases.

She has always had issues with irritability, reflux and constipation so we’ve always known there was some gut issue going on. She has never had any skin issues though and the naturopath intolerance testing did not show up any issues with wheat.

The interesting thing is that my doctor supports extended breastfeeding BUT said that after 12mths, children don’t get as much iron from breast milk as from formula and as Elle has such low iron, thinks it would be good for me to wean and introduce one bottle of formula per day instead. I had read that the iron from breasmilk was more easily absorbed and hence breastfeeding was the best option...hence why I am still going!

LOTS to think about! Any comments about your experiences of low iron, wheat intolerance + the weaning debate are very welcome.
Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley
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Paws View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paws Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 11:58am
Not much help with any of the above but if you do want to try formula I still have S26 gold - opened tin but almost full - that you are welcome to.

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Bizzy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bizzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 11:59am
dont know about the rest but... if you are going to give her formula dont put it in a bottle, a cup will do fine. and no reason why you cant do both if you want.
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Maya View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 12:01pm
Wow, those blood results could certainly answer some of your questions re: Elle's grizzling, if her iron is that low she must be feeling pretty crappy, and if she does have coeliacs then that is probably irritating her too. So at least now you know you're not mad, and you're not imagining that there's something not right!

I agree with your doc re: iron in breastmilk, it is more readily absorbed than iron from non-meat food sources, but the amount present in breastmilk depends hugely on YOUR iron levels (if they're low, there will be less iron accessible in your breastmilk), and a lot of the formulas are fortified with vitamins, including vitamin C which enhances iron absorption.

I wouldn't say that means you neccesarily have to wean tho (unless you want to?), you could keep breastfeeding and just add the bottle of formula in as an extra. That's what I've tried to do with the gremlins Pediasure supplements - kept up the same amount of bottles, and added the Pediasure in as an extra.

It might also be interesting to eliminate gluten for a while and see if there is any improvement in her temperament and whether that has any impact on her iron levels. Although that's a huge undertaking, and if you were planning on trying it you should probably ask your doc for a referral to a dietician to discuss wheat alternatives. In fact it probably wouldn't hurt to see a dietician regardless to talk over the iron issues and how you can increase Elle's iron absorption. There's no public waiting list to see a paed dietician atm in ADHB and all you need is for your doc to fax a referral thru.

Good luck!
Maya Grace (28/02/03)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Two Blondinis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 12:04pm
Just a comment about the breastfeeding and iron intake - Did the Dr check your iron levels? Perhaps you have low iron too and aren't passing on enough for Elle? Just a thought.

With all the conditions you've mentioned I'm not surprised she's not been a box of fluffys and sleeping for so long, poor love must be feeling just miserable (hence the irritability you've been getting from her). DH's cousin has Celiacs and apparently has terrible stomach cramps when he eats anything with wheat/gluten.

At least now you have a plan and can work on dealing with the problems and hopefully you'll see a positive change soon

Good luck hun and let us know how you get on

P.S
We tried the wheat/gluten free diet for 5 months when the GP thought Caitlin's constipation was due to food allergies (it wasn't, but anyways...) I found it really easy to manage as it's mentioned on all the food, same as nut allergy etc and there are some really good websites I found just through Google-ing. I'd assume you'd have to go on the same diet if you're still BFing her.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShellandBella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 12:05pm
I think it is true about the formula thing...my sister is having the exact same problem with her youngest who is nearly 18 months...she has just had a biopsy of her gut and they suspect coeliacs disease or some other inflammatory disease (possible allergy to egg/dairy) as her whole intestinal system was very inflamed. My sister has struggled with her to get her to take ANY solids and is only successful giving her 2x weetbix in the morning, so her GP suggested some high strength, complan-type formula as her iron stores were almost non-existent. My sisters oldest, who is 4, has coeliacs (hence the suspision) and always suffered with terrible constipation too...

(I don't think this helped you at all )...I think my point was that formula has a place in the diet when necessary...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bombshell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 12:06pm
have a client whose child was still BF at age three and they found out bubs had coeliac....made sense as had always found it hard to poop, or went too much...and altto didnt have any skin probs either when it was diagnosed and things liek bread etc were removed bubs improved big time...he was often irritable etc also and otherwise was a very nice child who at times i wondered what was going on causebubs moods dropped a lot - he was very intelligent but that got lost at times cause of coeliac effects....

until final diagnosis why dont you experiment and remove stuff that irritates coeliac...even mc donalds buns etc - i know she stopped all bread, glutens and wheats etc etc...there are differing types of wheat allergies and coeliac level disease so you will need to experiment if she does have it anyways...

go to this link (cant change it to a linky so cut and paste) http://www.vegsoc.org/info/gluten.html and scroll down and there is a really good list of foods.

i actually think that coeliac might be a diagnosis in the right direction for her now comparing you to that bubs i knew....but def keep on pursuing a definitive diagnosis ok!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FionaS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 12:38pm
Poor wee Elle. BUT woohoo! I knew I wasn't nuts!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by FionaS FionaS wrote:

Poor wee Elle. BUT woohoo! I knew I wasn't nuts!


We knew you weren't nuts too!
Maya Grace (28/02/03)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caraMel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 1:16pm
Poor Elle!

I don't have full blown coeliac, but do have gluten intolerance and did the coeliac diet for years.

I'd suggest the same as Emma, eliminate gluten for a bit and see if it helps. It wasn't a huge undertaking for me and as she is so little she probably won't miss particular foods like I did!
I was feeling 100% better within a few days of starting so would definitely recommend trying it if you think it is a possibility.
The horrid cramps and upset tummy would certainly explain her irritability if that's what she's got.

Hope you get some answers soon!
Mel, Mummy to E: 6, B: 4 and:

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FionaS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FionaS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by ShellandBella ShellandBella wrote:

I think it is true about the formula thing...my sister is having the exact same problem with her youngest who is nearly 18 months...she has just had a biopsy of her gut and they suspect coeliacs disease or some other inflammatory disease (possible allergy to egg/dairy) as her whole intestinal system was very inflamed. My sister has struggled with her to get her to take ANY solids and is only successful giving her 2x weetbix in the morning, so her GP suggested some high strength, complan-type formula as her iron stores were almost non-existent. My sisters oldest, who is 4, has coeliacs (hence the suspision) and always suffered with terrible constipation too...

(I don't think this helped you at all )...I think my point was that formula has a place in the diet when necessary...


It did help! :) What is your sisters little one like? Is she irritable too? I guess they must feel yucky with such low iron.

You see I thought that the naturpath test would've come back positive for wheat if she had an issue there + I thought she'd have skin problems & growth issues too. I suppose the naturopath tests could be wrong?????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 1:36pm
Coeliacs is a completely different ballgame to wheat allergy, it's a disease rather than something mediated by the immune system like an allergy so you wouldn't neccessarily expect skin problems.
I'm not sure about the naturopath testing as I don't know much about it, but I do know that conventional allergy testing doesn't pick up Coeliacs as when Maya was in hospital with her allergies they did another specific test for coeliacs even tho all her allergy tests had come back clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caraMel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 1:39pm
Yeah I had a gastroscopy (sp) to test for mine, hope there's an easier way to do it for littlies though?!
Mel, Mummy to E: 6, B: 4 and:

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FionaS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FionaS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 1:40pm
Good points Emma. Yes, they test "celiac markers". My doc ordered that test with the last one but said to only do it if they had enough blood. There are no results through yet so we are not sure whether it is still being processed or whether it wasn't done. If it wasn't done, we'll do it with the next round.

Interestingly enough, DH's sister has recently been diagnosed with some kind of coealic thingy...she isn't full blown but since removing all gluten her health has improved 10 fold.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 1:45pm
Yep, Maya's Coeliacs test was just a blood test.
Maya Grace (28/02/03)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bombshell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 1:53pm
ask for another test form just to test for coeliacs then....dont wait for them to say they didnt get enough blood....

and noone thinks you are nuts....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShellandBella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 2:23pm
Yeah, she had the gastroscopy (sorry it is one of the most reliable methods to diagnose coeliacs disease ), and thats how they found the inflammed intestinal tract HOWEVER, because she is hardly eating any solids, they are finding her difficult to diagnose, because you have to have something in your diet to know whether you are allergic or not (if that makes sense) and since all she eats is weetbix, my sister suspects this is what it is (as well as an allergy to egg I think). But until she eats more food, they aren't coming up with anything conclusive from her blood tests (which my sister is finding frustrating). Her 18 month old suffers from severe diarrhoea, but her 4 year old (with diagnosed coeliacs) suffered terribly with constipation and literally 'stopped' growing and was off all the plunket charts for being underweight. And yeah, they were both very grizzly babies, but the 4 year old is thriving now that she is on a correct gluten-free diet.

Again, I digress but what I'm trying to say is that coeliacs seems to be difficult to diagnose, and if you suspect this, although you want to cut wheat from her diet, it can give you 'false' results with testing.

Edited by ShellandBella


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShellandBella Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 2:29pm
Also, my sister had to really fight with the medical system to get a diagnosis with her oldest (they all thought she was a crazy woman who didn't know her own child). She wound up going to 2 different GPs before finally getting a referral to a specialist


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Bombshell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bombshell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 2:56pm
oh yeah coeliac is hard to diagnose and know my client had hard time convincing docs to test let alone once diagnosis was in....

hadnt thought about the weight thing slipping but Emma with the wheat allergies etc of the gremlins have you had them tested for this too esp with her weight dropping?
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FionaS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FionaS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2007 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by ShellandBella ShellandBella wrote:

Also, my sister had to really fight with the medical system to get a diagnosis with her oldest (they all thought she was a crazy woman who didn't know her own child). She wound up going to 2 different GPs before finally getting a referral to a specialist


I can totally relate to that! **sigh** I guess it is a fair enough conclusion for someone with a happy baby to make though..."if the child is irritable it must be due to the parenting". **sigh**.

Elle's weight gain is good thankfully. She is tiny but her Mummy and Daddy aren't the biggest kids around either.
Mummy to Gabrielle and Ashley
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