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Mazzy 
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 Topic: Sterilisation debate 20/20
Posted: 24 September 2007 at 8:24pm |
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I think it was on 20/20 last night? Just thinking about it again tonight. Did anyone see the story on sterilisation of intellectually and physically disabled people? In Australia it is illegal for parents to sterilise their kids. It was a really moving story, mostly I just thought the parents of some of the more severely disabled women/men were amazing, they are so strong for their kids and their love was just so strong As it would be for any child, but these guys have so much work to do just to have any relationship with their child, who in some cases will never grow up.
I'm fence sitting on it. I am against uninformed sterilisation in cases where there is a physical disability, where the child is still able to understand and consider the implications. Then it should be their choice. However, my heart also went out to the parents of the mentally disabled woman, she couldn't understand menstruation and it freaked her out and it was a nightmare each month hygiene wise for them all. She would never progress past a three year old level so I can understand the medical need to do that.
I am totally against any legislated, forced sterilisation of all disabled people.
Any thoughts? It struck a real chord for me, imagine being sterilised without your consent.
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Maya
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 8:26pm |
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I didn't see it, but what a debate! I wouldn't know what side to pick, I can see the benefits in sterilisation in some cases, but can also see the huge potential for abuse of that just because it's the 'easier' option IYGWIM? Fence sitting on this one!
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 Maya Grace (28/02/03)
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Mazzy
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 8:29pm |
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Yeah, that's where I'm at! The thought of the potential abuse of the whole issue horrifies me, but to hear what some of these families have to go through every month with their daughters was also heartbreaking.
Then there was the family whose mentally disabled son had fathered a child and they didn't know what would happen to the baby and who would bring it up.
Sorry if this is all too controversial, I'm in that mood tonight obviously! Emma, should this be in the 'news' section? Feel free to move it if it should be.
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mummy_becks
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 8:31pm |
I'm a fence sitter as well. I can see the good side of it for people that are mentally disabled that don't know right from wrong. But I can see it being abused.
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I was a puree feeder, forward facing, cot sleeping, pram pushing kind of Mum... and my kids survived!
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busymum
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 8:38pm |
oo it's too "iffy" and what about the small percentage of disabled people who do actually come right and the medical profession doesn't understand why? But why are those people having sex?  Not to discriminate, but more that if they can't progress past a certain mental age (something under 18), then how/why do they get into situations like that.
This is one very heavy topic!
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mummy_becks
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 8:40pm |
My Dh used to work with people that were physically disabled and from the physical disabilities some had mental ones. They were still going at it with each other at the home. I think a couple of the woman had things done so that there was no chance of them getting pregnant.
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I was a puree feeder, forward facing, cot sleeping, pram pushing kind of Mum... and my kids survived!
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Mazzy
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 8:41pm |
 busymum wrote:
But why are those people having sex? Not to discriminate, but more that if they can't progress past a certain mental age (something under 18), then how/why do they get into situations like that. |
It wasn't just about having sex and getting pregnant, but also stopping menstruation and the problems that go along with it for some families.
I am just so glad I haven't had to make a decision like this for one of my kids.
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Chovynz
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 8:45pm |
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i think its one of those in a perfect world topics...
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Maya
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 8:47pm |
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Having experienced my DSD getting her period at 8 and all the problems that arose with her being too young and immature to understand what it meant and how to take care of herself at that time of the month, I feel for parents who have to spend years dealing with it. Especially if there are other issues eg. difficult/heavy periods, bad PMS etc. to complicate it.
But to sterilise? Ooooh so dicey! What about things like the Mirena/Depo which stop menstruation in a large percentage of women, or using continuous contraceptive pills with no sugar pills to suppress AF? We were also given an optioin with DSD of an injection to temporarily halt the puberty process, I don't know much about it as we decided not to follow that path but it could be an option.
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Maya Grace (28/02/03)
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The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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lizzle
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 8:52pm |
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I;ve heard that many people with downs actually have a very high sex drive and often masturbate. I';ve also heard that in group homes they are often having sex with each other and have tobe taught about appropriate places.
as for sterilasation - we had this discussion in one of my philosophy classes that i think ended up leadning to discussing cannibilism of "unwanted" people. I believe I am on the fence again. case by case.
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Maya
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 8:57pm |
lizzle wrote:
as for sterilasation - we had this discussion in one of my philosophy classes that i think ended up leadning to discussing cannibilism of "unwanted" people. |
*shudder*
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Maya Grace (28/02/03)
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The Gremlins:Sienna Marie & Mercedes Kailah (14/10/06)
Lil miss:Chiara Louise Chloe (09/07/08)
Her ladyship:Rosalia Sophie Anais (18/06/12)
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Chovynz
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 9:20pm |
lizzle wrote:
I;ve heard that many people with downs actually have a very high sex drive and often masturbate. ... |
I thought that was the entire population of males that did that... 
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Glow
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 9:43pm |
People with downs also take stuff & some stuff can react with the pill etc etc
Cannibalism is a way of life for some cultures, god damn we eat meat dont we???  
Damn those doc's telling me i couldn't have babies!! They were half right anyway!! Miracles with 1 fallopian tube if you ask me.
Heres this masturbation stuff again Chovy, ive told you before everybody does it coz it feels good. BUT Some people dont do it coz they werent taught right!!
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Mummy of Two Boys
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Faraway
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 10:10pm |
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Funny this should be posted about tonight. DH and I saw the update at end of 60mins about lady who is currently in jail for beating her infant son to death (preg with 9th child) and it raised the question about sterilisation of child abusers....
Sorry off topic and another heavy one!
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Aprilfools
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 10:12pm |
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I used to work with and care for mentally disabled/intellectually handicapped people. A lot of our female clients were on depo as a contraceptive and it's not only to stop them from getting pregnant but you try getting a pad or tampom (TMI) anywhere near a woman who is not only hormonal but handicapped and a lot of them only associate blood with bad things, sick, dying etc etc and freak out. Quite often they don't understand and they will take a swing at you.
How do they get in the situation where they are having sex? We had 5 in a house usually, a staff member on sleepover shift (can sleep from 11pm to 7am) may not hear someone get up. Unless the government wants to step in and offer staff more money so they can pay them to work night shift..........
A lot of people in these situations will have a high sex drive. Not because they want to have sex but because they crave affection. Lets face it, sex feels nice and when you live in an environment where people don't cuddle you or show you affection as much as a human body needs you'll take what you can get.
I am sorry, I don't want to offend but I can see the need for it. Pregnancy is a lot to go through for a 'normal' person so imagine what it would have been like for you to become a parent at the age of 4? And there is quite a difference between being physically handicapped and intellecually/mentally handicapped. Obviously this needs to be well established first and only done on a case by case basis.
Again, don't wish to offend.
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Kels
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 10:16pm |
Defenitely sitting on the fence with this one too. In my last job I had a mentally disabled 14yr old coming in for regular depo inj as she used to play with AF and just get it everywhere as she had no comprehension of what it was.
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Glow
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 10:16pm |
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And why not Faraway? Its a bloody brillant idea. Atleast some taxpayer money would actaully go to a good cause & be preventative for future *whatevers*
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Mummy of Two Boys
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Glow
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 10:22pm |
I like what you said Finlay & Kels 
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Mummy of Two Boys
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Katherine
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 11:26pm |
From a historical point of view, this is not new -- handicapped people were forcibly sterilised, then murdered, by the Nazis. They were among the first wave of people subjected to the genocide of the Shoah (Holocaust). So this may be one reason why enforced sterilisation of handicapped and disabled people is such a hot topic today -- because it can be seen as a human rights violation.
As a parent, I think I would be in favour of sterilising my child if she was disabled/handicapped enough that successfully raising a child was not possible. The grey area is determining what constitutes "handicapped enough". Who decides this? The parents? In the absence of parents/guardians, would it be the government?
DH's cousin is intellectually handicapped. She is 19 and does not have the mental capacity to make informed, adult decisions about sex and contraception. She has the mentality of a 12-year-old, but her body is telling her that sex is what it's all about. Last year, one of her schoolmates (she was in mainstream schooling) -- an 18-year-old boy -- lured her away from a party and talked her into having sex with him in the backseat of his car. She thought that he'd be her boyfriend if she did it. She told my sister-in-law, who told me, and the one of the hardest things I've ever done is to make the decision to tell her mother (DH's auntie) what we'd found out. The cousin was promptly taken to the doctor for tests and a checkup, and put on contraception. I can't even imagine what kinds of decisions her parents are facing as she gets older and wants to be more and more independent. Sterilisation? In this case, I would agree with it -- because it is for her own wellbeing. I agree with Aprilfools -- it needs to be determined case by case, with clear criteria.
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caitlynsmygirl
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 11:49pm |
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this is a tough one for me, because i have a sister who is developmental delay , she is 21 but has the mentality of a 5 year old, actually not even that, because caitlyn is fast outgrowing her mentality wise, and at times she has the mentality of a 15 year old hormonal adolesent, she needs someone to help shower her because she doesnt have the mentality to think to clean herself-she'd just stand under the tap basically, she still has "accidents" and when she gets her "peridid" (as she calls it) she smells quite bad, i dont think she'd ever have the mentality to have intercourse with anyone willingly,but i live in fear that someone will one day take advantage of her and she could end up pregnant....i know what would happen if she did,my parents would be expected to raise it,as it is my parents are never going to get the chance of her growing up and leaving home like most parents do, they love my sister to bits, but at least most people can look forward to enjoying their "twighlight years" by themselves, she is and always will be their baby,and though i know my parents (who are pretty incredible when i think about it ) wouldnt change my sister for the world,i have seen first hand all my life, what a tiring,stressful job it can be.
If sterilisation could prevent that happening to her and ultimatley my parents, then id be all for it,but as long as it was explained in basic terms that my sister could understand.
My parents got the mirena (sp?) for her....didnt work!still gets her periods (except she LIKES getting them,cos she doesnt have to go swimming at school)
I dont think its fair to sterilise people who are mentally capable but not physically,they should have some say over it, if not all.
My sister is also autistic and epileptic so is quite high on the scale of "mentally disabled"
golly,feel like ive just written part of my autobiography lol
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Sterilisation debate 20/20