Amended Abortion Bill

I was in no way suggesting that people that get counselling are unintelligent. Even intelligent people can benefit from counselling. It isn't about "questioning your choice" either, it's about working through the emotions that come with your decisions. I think that pre- and post-abortion counselling would benefit anyone, it would take someone with a heart of stone not be affected by a decision like abortion, and while I accept that some people are capable of dealing with these emotions on their own, the vast majority of people that I have come into contact with are still dealing with the fallout of deciding to abort their baby, whatever the reason.

I definitely don't think abortion is a black and white issue, there are many shades of grey... the only thing that I do not agree with is the use of abortion as a form of "contraception". Other than that, I think individual situations all need to be dealt with differently.

Kazper wrote: That was kind of rude of her to ask why you had Caitlyn huh!

just saw this now , yeah ! she was a pretty abrupt rude person ...and (OT) a crap dental assistant, she would often get annoyed at the dentist and storm out mid procedure ...amazingly she didn't get fired !

caliandjack wrote: Interestingly enough I probably had more support to terminate than to keep the baby.

and this is what bothers me, it really shouldn't be like that. Yes there should be support, I'm not saying abortion should be illegal or anything like that but at the moment it seems to me like abortion is the first response to an unplanned pregnancy and that is the bit that bothers me. There should be the same if not more support to either keep or adopt the baby out rather than abort. But I suppose from a social services, medical professional, economic view abortion is easier and cheaper. And what worries me from the other stories like the women Kelly worked with is that if some women are already having multiple abortions under the current system then how would making abortion easier stop that, and obviously for some women they are learning nothing from it which is sad for them as well as for all the poor babies and those type of women would, perhaps, also be the type to abort late term babies for no other reason than they have changed their mind, or only just found out or whatever. I'm in support for medical reasons, yes things in that area do need to be made better, but I'm scared about the way it is being done and I'm not just scared for the babies but also for young women making decisions they may later regret.

TheKelly wrote: When I had found out I was pregnant with the baby I terminated , I was at Family planning , and the first thing the nurse said after telling me the test was positive was "I can give you information for a termination " , it was like she didn't even consider that I may want to keep the baby . In that case, I didn't want to , but still , if I had , I would have felt really scared asking for information on going through with pregnancy when they clearly thought a termination was what I should be doing . I don't think thats right

Yeah, when you are young it seems to be the first thing they mention.

I am totally keeping out of this debate  BUT just wondered if any of you had read Peter Singers take on the ethical dilemmas involved in abortion (amongst other things) in his book....umm I think it was 'Practical Ethics'? I might have that title wrong but it was along those lines. It covered euthanasia, vegetarianism, helping the poor, etc too from a purely ethical point of view.

WOW. It made me rethink everything I thought I 'knew' about such topics . Let's just say I agreed totally with the author on some points and felt like crap on others cos he presented a compelling view of how illogical my choices then were.

Anyway, not trying to go OT but it would be a very good read for those considering how they feel about the OP

I am a very intelligent woman and I chose counselling - not so someone could question my choice - I had no problems having a termination nor do for a moment i regret or question my choice - I find it quite insulting that you insult my intelligence by making such a statement Sonne
Like caliaandjack said it was more about ticking the boxes, ensuring I was making an informed decision, and I like to keep an open mind - I dont always have all the answers or know all the options - and I wasnt afraid to ask

I quite agree with little bug, it must be an individual assessment based not only on the term of the pregnancy or any medical issues but also socio-economic influences which do play a part in such situations. I once worked for a youth health centre and have seen many a heart breaking story unfold - and as someone mentioned earlier - it would have been an optimal time to break the cycle with many of these young women

I think the point they are making is that how do you know if the woman is a woman who doesn't need counselling or someone who is in severe need of help, because with an opt out system they could and probably would opt out as well.

And I think the other point is that intelligence is entirely seperate to emotion. I've made lots of intellectual decisions that I knew were in my best interests (like leaving a bad relationship) but even though I knew it was for the best on a intellectual level it put me through an emotion rollercoaster, the counselling is aimed to help with that as well as to assess the mental stability of the women wanting the abortion in the first place and that counselling may help some women make better choices so they don't end up back in the same situation. If that means a few women who don't think they need counselling had to sit through a few sessions, what's the big deal? surely that is better than the risk of other women slipping through the cracks?

The compulsory counselling for me was 1 session...barely lasting 1 hour that's it. 
I don't think that's a great hardship for anyone. If your sure your making an informed 'inteleigent' choice, then can't see why you would have an issue with it.

Hi

The proposed bill state that abortion would be available on demand until 24 weeks. After 24 weeks it would be still be available if signed off by 1 medical practioner if they thought it medically appropriate and with regard to "current and future physical, psychological and social circumstances" . The quoted words allow for almost any reasoning, they are so broad and intangible so as to be almost meaningless. This means that viable lives could be ended. 23 weeks, 34 weeks even 39 + 5. Whilst some would argue most medical practiioners would not provide the necessary consent the reality is some would. Even one it too many.. How anyone could support this is beyond me.
While the current law may be seen by some as flawed at least it recognises that there is a human person involved. It is different than having a tooth removed.

Mahatma Gandhi said "You can judge a society by how they treat their weakest members."
What would this proposed bill passing into law say about New Zealand society - something pretty horrific I think.

On another note I have read a number of comments about those who have multiple abortions. Out of interest I looked up the stat and apparently 37% of the abortions carried out in NZ last year were on women who had had a least one already.

well said deodora agree completely.

That's awful Kiwi2 that people were encouraging your to terminate, the society we live in is not at all supportive sometimes. Also if a man is big enough to have sex and they should be able to deal with the consequnces. I mean really ruining the dad's life how can that be when they easily walk away..... not that they should of course!