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ElfsMum View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 March 2008 at 6:57am
Ethan went crazy needing fed all the time..only happened once before..would feed then sleep for half an hour then feed etc.. went on for several hours before we were both exhausted..

in the end i gave him a formula bottle..i made up 200mls(his first ever) and he drank 170mls before falling asleep for 7 hours...(only ever slept for 5 before) ..

was it a coincidence that he slept that long..because he was so tired? would it affect my milk supply if i did this occasionally?or even every night(not sure if i would just wondering?) he was beside himself so we gave him formula instead of frozen breast milk(it would have taken 30 mins to defrost. and my Dh said he was ok with it but actually wasnt so much(but we wont go there)...

anyway i know I'm supposed to let him feed during a growth spurt to increase my milk but will it make a difference if he has that bottle whether just sometimes or always at night?
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kebakat View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kebakat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 7:46am
It was probably just a freak thing that he slept that long after the bottle. He was probably just knackered and crashed. Formula doesn't make a blind bit of difference when it comes to sleep.

DH use to feed Daniel a feed of formula every night to give me a break, it didn't affect my milk supply, it just took it a couple of days to work out what was happening and not to produce too much milk and make me too full.

We found it fantastic to give Daniel a bottle of formula (while I was BF - for the first 3 months) because it meant I didn't have to express (lazy bum lol) and DH could make up however much he wanted and we didn't care if it was wasted.
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ElfsMum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ElfsMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 7:50am
ok..so one isnt going to affect it..thats good:)! i had this discussion with someone else about formula making them sleep.. they said they same(it makes no difference) ... I think maybe it just happens to be the people i know who are formula feeding have babies who sleep longer..as this person pointed out its probably the babies themselves..not the formula:)
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nicolaann View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nicolaann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 8:10am
He may have slept longer because he had such a good feed. That is the good thing with giving him a bottle, you know exactly how much he has had. Even if he feeds off you for a long time, he may not be getting as much. A lot of mums I know give their babies a bottle at night. It's great for dad to get involved too, and to give you a break!!!
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Bel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 8:12am
I wonder if you you have to look at the fact that he sleeps better after formula because his tummy is full?? Luke started being more settled once I introduced a formula bottle - I used to feed every half hour for about 3 hours before he would go to bed, then started with a formula bottle and he would go straight to bed... and sleep for 10 hours...

Milk quality rather than milk supply?
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peanut butter View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peanut butter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 8:17am
It does affect your supply....but thats ok if you want it too. Basically if you want to do as Stacey did and feed a formula feed at that time everynight then thats ok but if you only want to do it occassionally you might find your boobs get confused.

Also the whole point of a growth spurt is to get mum making more milk for the next stage in his growth....not just to feed more at that time. So by giving formula instead of letting him feed off you your body doesnt know that it needs to up your supply to meet the new demands. The same would apply with EBM. However your sanity is still important so do what works for ya!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jack_&_charli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 8:17am
we started giving charli a bottle of formula at night before bed when she was about ethan's age and it did help her to sleep through. but my milk supply wasn't that great at the end of the day, which is probably why she slept better

the formula could've been the reason he slept longer or he may have just be tired......the only way you'll know is to try the bottle thing again and see what happens.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ElfsMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 8:36am
in terms of how much he gets he used to feed then sleep for 5 hours so i figured he was kinda full and sometimes it will leak out(sides of his mouth:) ) so it looks like hes getting enough(and gaining weight and weeing and stuff so i assumed he was getting enough?

Dad does EBM at night if its early enough..when we get a routine it will be great Dad will always be able to do that one..
bel-thats a good point..he gets heaps but maybe not enough of the good stuff?

jack/charli- yeah i think we will try it again to see what happens..i had a good talk to DH about the formula issue..seems he was grumpy bout it cause it costs..lol.. men!

I'm not one who feels guilty about giving him formula..though it was a little weird:) and if one more freaking person tells me I'm lucky cause i have a good supply!! obviously i dont always..I've been lucky this hasnt happened before now i guess...my milk isnt so flash at night either..though if i drink a lot during the day it does help a bit..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cuppatea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 8:48am
If you decide to go one feed a night then a large tub will last you a month, so $15-20 dollars a month for your sanity isn't too much to ask I don't think.

Also as you milk is non to good at night and that does tend to happen, the whole day catching up on you effects your supply then you could express in the morning, when your supply is normally at its best, and keep that milk in the fridge for the night feed.

Anyway from 2 months we introduced a formula feed at 9.30pm and Spencer started sleeping until 4ish, instead of cluster feeding till 11 then waking at 2 and 5 and 7am. The trouble is I introduced a routine along with that formula feed but was then too scared to try EBM instead in case he woke earlier, so I don't know whether it was the routine or the formula that got me those extra hours of sleep. I can tell you though that when he went fully formula fed it made not one jot of difference to the time between his day feeds or the night feeds.

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ElfsMum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ElfsMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 10:05am
yeah i do try to express..but i try to do it an hour after the feed and sometimes hes still awake and unhappy or I forget ..but like today i did ...so if he has morning EBM hes getting the best milk anyway so hopefully that will help him sleep longer:)

they do say once a breastfed baby even when it switches will still keep same sleeping patterns:(! we are going to do a routine very shortly too...just wanted him to get over his jabs..any tips for implementing that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 10:54am

I'm still breast feeding 100% but have found if I have a busy day and don't eat or drink enough Daniel has a restless evening.  I generally feed one boob one feed the other boob next feed but on the nights that he is restless I give him both boobs and it works everytime.  So maybe Ethan wasn't getting quite enough and with the formula he is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aimeejoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 11:14am
Re the routine KA, choose a time in the morning you want to start and work from there. So around here, regardless of what time she last fed, our day starts at 7am. So Greer gets woken then and feeds at 7, 10, 2, 5 and then around 6. Into bed 6.30. I wake her at 9.30 and make it like daytime so she is awake for around an hour. Last two nights I have been in bed at 10.45, then not being woken until 3 or 4am, then she manages through until 7am again.

So yeah, I think the easiest way is just to make sure you always start at the same time every day. Good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 1:41pm
We did similar to what Aimee does, woke the girls for their first morning feed and worked from there, regardless of how their night had been (and with the gremlins, nights were shocking!).

I introduced 1 bottle of formula per day to them at 3 weeks old as their "dream feed" around 10pm to try ad get them to sleep longer. It didn't make any difference at all to their sleep, but it did get them used to the taste of the formula so I had no trouble with mixed feeding and then weaning later on.

Maya never had a bottle at all till she was 9 weeks then absolutely refused point blank to take one so was exclusively breastfed by neccessity rather than choice, I had wanted to give her one bottle per night too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ElfsMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 5:11pm
verena..yeah maybe..i had tried feeding extra etc..people say dont do one boob but often i do.. as sometimes it works better...just depends how boobs feel..

aimee thanks..so you always wake her not just in the morning but at those other times?not sure i can bring myself to wake him....opening curtains etc sometimes works..:)! he sorta has a routine..I've beejn writing it for a week and mostly he is up at similar times.. we notice the non-bath days make a difference so we will have to do that every night just i cant lift it so sometimes DH isnt here..but think i will put him in big bath with me maybe?

i just gave him a bottle of formula..i didnt mix it..he was fine.. i dont think he could do dream feed..if i ever do wake him he's awake.....Ethan has had a bottle of EBM off and on since birth cause i was scared he would never take a bottle like my friends bub:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peachy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 7:14pm
Hey kawww I gave Lauren a bottle of EBM every day for the first 3 months with the same theory as yourself. One day she decided she wasn't taking it anymore and has only taken a bottle 3 times since in the last two months! I persevere for an hour or so trying to get her to take it now, but she screams at me and I give up! My theory did not work like I thought it would! I really hope you don't have the same problem as me, it drives me insane!!

I was trying to wean recently, but I have given up. After 6 months I am going straight to a cup for her milk feeds! I have no choice!

Also, I bath with Lauren every night in the big bath, we both love bath time and I love interacting with her in there as every night she gets more and more confident and she loves me putting water all over her face, which will be so good for when she is older!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aimeejoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 7:33pm
Yep I wake her whenever she is due for a feed unless she has woken early. Also wake up fully at 9.30 as dream feeds dont seem to work for her, then just leave her to it for the night. Seems to work for us anyway. Did the same with Hannah... When I wake her I just unwrap her and leave her for a few minutes, open curtains in the morning. She must be used to it now as she wakes quite quickly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cuppatea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 March 2008 at 7:44pm
If you don't like the waking approach you could just follow the feed, play, sleep routine which is what I did with Spencer and then I implemented a less flexible routine for night time which was to bath and then feed at 6.30pm and then dream feed at 10.30pm. I would try to always feed at 6.30pm even if his last feed hadn't been that long ago. I started that night routine at 3 months though, up until then he would not have made it from 6.30 to 10.30 without a feed. At 2 months I was giving him a bath and then a feed at around 9.30pm and then going to bed at the same time, he would then make it through till about 4. Up until his bath he would do cluster feeding and napping in his bassinet in the lounge with me.
Bathing together is great, especially if you can pass him to DH to dress, Spencer also loves going in the shower with me so that is something you could try as well.

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