nz pork!?

What the Sunday program showed is what the industry standard practice is for farming pigs, the farmer wasn't doing anything he shouldn't.

I always think these animal welfare programme are aimed at the wrong person - as its the supermarkets that determine the price of goods - and in turn the consumer.

The farmer is only trying to get the best price he can which isn't much.

You would be hard pressed to find free-range organic pork at any of the major supermarkets. I have had free-range organic pork sausages from whole food organics and they were delicious but they were also expensive.

As most of my buying decisions are based on economics I can't see myself changing.

mrsg1 wrote: the farmer wasn't doing anything he shouldn't.

i disagree with that completely. animals - wether for food or pets - shouldnt be kept in that condition.

i think too that supermarkets are driven by their customers. i remember once asking about a chicken product and being told that the market in that area usually only buys bulk frozen chicken packs so thats what they stocked. if the market dictated free range pork/chicken etc then it would happen. (or am i just dreaming? )

I used to raise pigs for our freezer when I was on the farm, I do agree that it would be nice for the pigs to have a bit more space but the reality is this is what they are used to, this is how exclusive pigfarming is done so it's financially viable. Pigs are reasonably intelligent and are very stuck into a routine (even pet pigs). If you go to a pig at 4 o'clock when 5 is its normal feedtime, it won't expect food. And if woken they become extremely confused and upset.

I had no idea how pigs were farmed, just never really thought about it. Similar to chickens really, never really thought about how they were farmed either until it was on tv (years ago). Now we only buy free range eggs but I can't say the same for chicken, we generally buy whats cheap (think I should look into that a bit more)

I was at the supermarket last night and pretty much every Pork, Ham and Bacon item was on sale...except for anything free range or organic. We have decided not to buy standard pork and rather buy free range type bacon but for 300g it cost $11 and I just couldn't justify it. Didn't buy any. I also said to DH that you if we go out for breakfast and have bacon then you also have to consider where that bacon has come from. Some menu's state free range so I would trust that but if they don't mention it then it would be standard bacon...I presume.

Ok on the issue of the farmer being in the right or wrong, doing something they shouldn't. Under the code of welfare for pigs he was farming to the minimum standards therefore legally he was doing nothing wrong, morally though, well that is something the ethics committee have to decide and unfortunately they think this is ok.
The minister for agriculture who ultimately decides that a code is ok, takes his lead from the ethics committee and I believe admitted on the programme that he knows nothing of how pigs are farmed. The code of welfare for pigs was written by pig farmers (anyone can write and submit a code for the committee to look at, I believe SAFE are currently writing their own one). Pig farmers are hardly going to write a code that takes away from their profits, and money is the only reason pigs are farmed in this manner.

Interestingly enough we have one of the best animal welfare acts in the world which states that all animals should have five freedoms, those being

proper and sufficient food and water;

Adequate shelter;

the opportunity to display normal patterns of behaviour;

physical handling in a manner that minimises the likelihood of unreasonable or unnecessary
pain or distress;

and

protection from, and rapid diagnosis of, any significant injury and disease.

I personally don't think these pigs are being allowed their five freedoms, especially not the ability to display normal behaviours. So you probably wonder how they are allowed to farm when the are breaking the act, trouble is under our law if they were prosecuted it would need to be proved that they weren't farming to the minimums set out in the code which they are but they wrote them and somehow they were classed as being ok even though they fall woefully short of what the intentions of the act were.

I don't know if anyone else watched the Oprah show a little while ago about pigs, chickens and veal calfs but they showed factory farms (ones that the farmers willing showed the Oprah cameras around and the farmers were on the show to give their side) and they showed free range farms. The pigs on the free range farm didn't seem distressed to me, they weren't upset about not being confined in a tiny little cage that doesn't even allow them to turn around or lie down, they didn't seem upset that when they gave birth they could actually turn around and look at their piglet, they didn't seem distressed that they could roll in mud and forage around for food.

The reason they target these shows at the general public and not at the supermarkets is because we are the end consumer, if we don't know how pigs are farmed we won't give it a second thought when we buy pork, if we do know and decide that we don't agree with it then demand for free range pork will go up, so in turn the supermarket will stock more, then more free range farms will be set up, once more are farmed this way then supply will catch up with demand and the price will fall, etc etc...it's basics economics.

Oh and one last thing, we watched a video at college that showed pigs and chickens taken out of factory farms and put in a free range situation, at first they were freaked out, most had never seen daylight before let alone been able to move freely, but after only a short amount of time they began to display normal patterns of behaviour, rather than the obsessive repetitive behaviour that they display in factory farms, the chickens grew back feathers and it was amazing to see. They should piglets in a concrete small dark pen that went from attacking each other cos they had nothing else to do to running around outside playing together like we are led to believe farms are like when we are kids.

So, anyway, yeah I am anti them being farmed in this way. And in case anyone's wants to know, no I am not a tree hugging vegan but I do believe animals should be treated well whilst alive, it's the least we can do before we eat them or use them for other purposes.

I'll come back I think, because I have plenty to say here (my dad has a free-range pig farm), but for now I'll say this:

I have 6 pigs on my lifestyle block and I think they are very well cared for. They are my pets as well as production animals. My pigs have big paddocks to roam in and a wallow and a house etc. They eat grass and I feed them once a day with various supplementary feeds. When they see me come near the feed sheds (even if they've already been fed and should know I won't be feeding them again) they come running up to the gate and start salivating (just like pavlov's dogs). If I don't come quick enough to feed them, they start squealing awfully - you'd think I was torturing them. Sometimes they bite the bars on the gate. So you could say they chew bars, froth at the mouth (with so much saliva) and scream a tortured scream. And why? Because they want to be fed. [For the record they are on the plump side, and certainly aren't starving each day at feeding time, just greedy]. So all of those behaviours those pigs showed were just normal attention-seeking behaviour of pigs hoping to be fed. It was just media hype to personify that to indicate "tortured pigs."

I'm certainly not saying I agree with the sow crates, although I understand the implications of the alternatives, but the behaviour those pigs showed really wasn't indicative of them being tortured, just that someone had showed up who might feed them.

Oh, and my pigs struggle to break even (even when I had more of them) under the system I have, and I certainly wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't for the enjoyment I get out of them as pets.

I totally agree with cuppatea on this! Pigs, chickens or any other animals should absolutely not be treated like that. Doesn't matter if they're well fed or whatever, restricting their movements is inhumane! I don't eat pork generally and I buy from our butcher who has free-range on the odd occasion that I do. We're on a fairly tight budget but IMO I'd rather go without than settle for pork/chicken/eggs/any other kind of meat where the animals were kept like this.
I honesty don't understand how it can be cheaper to treat them like this rather than free-range. If it were cattle or sheep it wouldn't be viable at all so I don't know why chickens and pork can't be treated a little better.

We're buying caged chickens to add to our lot and they're bald and don't lay. After 6 weeks being freeranged (well they're in our large chicken run) they'll be beginning to grow their feathers and starting to lay again. Its so cool to see! They're happy and healthy and their eggs are huge and delicious!!

Flutterby wrote: If Mike King and his mates broke into your BEDROOM at 2am with a video camera, would you be upset and distressed???

This made me LOL IRL

Babe I so wanted my mum to get some of those chickens for her place - we were going to give her chickens and the setup for her birthday. But she's gone off the idea now and I'm so bummed. I'd have chickens if I had a big enough land area.

The thing that really irks me about "free range" is that the definitions are so vague. My dads place is what I'd classify as truely free range - the pigs have a huge area to roam and they have trees and grass and spend most of the day foraging and wallowing and just doing happy pig things.

But free range just means not enclosed. I've seen so many awful free range places that honestly, I'd rather be an indoor pig. I went to a place the other day where the pigs were in paddocks that were totally churned to mud, and they were obviously like that all year (I'd hate to see them in August). The pigs had a house and a small concrete feed pad they could stand on, but otherwise they had to get wet legs standing up to their bellies in mud. At least most intensive piggeries are clean and dry and there is plenty of feed available.
So to me, buying free-range isn't really much better. If you are really concerned, I'd purchase from a named pig farm (not just generic "free range"), and go and have a look for yourself at how the pigs live.

I have a pig that spent his first year in a piggery before I bought him. The first day I let him outside, he was so excited and ran around exploring stuff, much like a young piglet when they first venture out of their nest. But after a half hour or so, he settled down to eating and became just like my other pigs. The only difference is that he's bred for indoors and he really struggles without heating in winter (he has a house, and hay to sleep in, but its not enough. He needs more fat cover and a lot more hair). So just tossing all those indoor pigs outdoors won't work. There would need to be a change in the breeding objectives (which can happen) but it would take several generations to really kick in, so it wouldn't happen overnight.

For me, I get my pork from my own paddock and I know its lived a very happy life. But if I didn't have that option, and couldn't source pigs from someone I knew, I'd still purchase NZ pork (but not overseas pork).

Also, have a look at what is happening in the UK. Indoor pig farming has been outlawed, and piggeries are going under all over the country, because consumers are simply buying imported cheaper pork, raised indoors.

If we really want to see a good change in NZ, imported pork needs to stop, and then farmers can move to less intensive systems because they will be able to put the price up. And we'll all have to pay more for our bacon.