QuoteReplyTopic: Have your say! Posted: 15 March 2010 at 11:47am
Dear OHbaby! Members,
Meet Sarah Barnett, a staff writer with New Zealand Listener. Sarah is writing a story on modern parenting and would love to ask some questions of our members. This special thread is for Sarah to get in touch with you, and for you to possibly have a stab at fame if you say something witty and pithy and she ends up publishing it!
Please give Sarah a warm welcome and help her to feel at home.
and thanks in advance for your time and thoughts. As Katherine said, I'm working on a story on modern parenting and have a couple of ideas I'd like to discuss.
For what it's worth, I don't have kids (yet!), but I'm a very proud Aunty of one and one-on-the-way; my sister's a member here :-)
I have a couple of ideas I'd like to discuss: First, how do you think parenting is different now than it was in our parents' day? What are the new pressures?
Second, parents now get a bit of a reputation for being more overprotective of their kids - do you think that's fair? If so, what do you think might be causing it?
This story came about because my GP gave me a rev-up to have kids, as I'm 31 - has anyone else felt that pressure coming from other people about their biological clock? it seems to me that women are well aware of their fertility - but that doesn't mean there are a heap of guys out there in their 20s dying to have kids! There's a lot of discussion overseas about how to encourage people to have children younger - what do you think might work - if it's even necessary?
Anyway, that's probably more than enough for now. Thanks all!
(BTW, I'm happy to quote people as their usernames, but if you're happy for your real details to be used, feel free to email me privately at sarah.barnett@listener.co.nz)
Where to begin!!! wow..
Id say there are some pretty hot/heated topics on OB already thatd make good research material, and give u a glimpse into modern day parenting challenges...
In my experience, everyone seems extremely opinionated when it comes to parenting.... most of all, the pros....
Watching with interest....
Something I will say that wont generate a debate is:-
One thing I do, and a lot of my friends do, which deffinately wouldnt have happened even 5 years ago let alone a whole generation, is blogs. We use blogs to keep our family and friends updated on the wee ones.
I will have a think about this some more - but my first thoughts (albeit not very well formulated)
how do you think parenting is different now than it was in our parents' day? What are the new pressures?
I think that fundamentally parenting today is a lot more about choice, we have choices that our parents never had. I guess a lot of this is about the generation that we have been raised in – the “me” generation, Gen Y, whatever you want to call it, I think we are all a lot more selfish (in a good way) therefore the choice to have kids is normally a selfish one, rather that feeling its “just what you do” or feeling it was expected of you.
I do think that there are a lot more pressures on parents today though – we have information overload as new parents, there is a book / article / dvd / study / web page etc on just about every possible question or challenge – which can make it really hard to know what is right / wrong / normal. It can put a lot of pressure on new mummies who are naturally nervous anyway. Interestingly I don’t think this is a new thing – its just a larger amount of information and the availability of it that’s an issue these days. My mum reckons she used to get a lot of unsolicited advice from women on the bus, in the shops etc, but she thinks that back then- that was how you learnt things.
Second, parents now get a bit of a reputation for being more overprotective of their kids - do you think that's fair? If so, what do you think might be causing it?
I don’t think that parents are a lot more protective – I think its all about the amount of information. We are a LOT more aware of the dangers to our children now (predators, accidents, allergies etc etc) than we used to be, therefore it feeds the paranoia that you need to protect your kids at all costs.
Thanks everyone so far - another thing I'm thinking about is the number of women now who have babies over the age of 30 (I'm 32). I'm developing a theory that we're so bombarded with info about your declining fertility and the rise in risks and difficulties, as my GP told me in full, at that age, that it's no wonder if we are a bit more overprotective when we do have kids!
I am 33 and had #1 at 31 and we are TTC #2, I think that my DH feels it more than me - he is early 40s, he is paranoid that he will be "too old" to kick a ball around with his grandkids....
We do seem to be bombarded with messages about declining fertility, but on the other hand we also get a tonne of info about what to eat / drink/ wear / listen to / etc in order to be "fertile" that when it doesnt happen straight away we wonder what is wrong with us!!!
So many times after having my kids my Mum or Grandmother mentioned they wished they had PPL in their day - while I was moaning about the fact that it wasn't enough. I think there was less financial support, and also less resources and information - not to say that there wasn't any but as SimSam mentioned above, as Mums we now have so many choices available, and with each choice there is also judgement. My Mum had no choice but to use cloth nappies for us, as while disposables were available they were expensive and not essential. Now there is such an abundance of MCN's on the market (Modern Cloth Nappies) even though diposable nappies are cheap and readily available. There are so many more 'necessities' than there used to be that new Mum's may feel bombarded by everything they 'need'.
We are also more strict on our children in some ways yet more lenient in others.
I am a parent of young children so have not much to say of my own experience on this but as children we were outdoors all day, in the bush, at the beach, running around and being crazy, climbing tree's etc, getting filthy basically. This is probably a general comment but I really don't see that happening much anymore - and it can't really in some ways. Children do require more supervision as there are more percieved risks. So we are more strict in that kids are more supervised while participating in outdoor activities, however I think we are now more lenient with the use of technology, computers, tv, and cell phones.
I have a couple of ideas I'd like to discuss: First, how do you think parenting is different now than it was in our parents' day? What are the new pressures?
I don't think it is more different today, babies needs aren't any different to what they were when we or our parents were babies, however I do believe we MAKE it more difficult for ourselves by putting more pressure on ourselves. Taking them to the "right" music groups and swimming lessons, being careful not to let them even glance at the TV, this wrap or that sling? am I damaging them for life if I use a front pack or disposible nappies? Will my child be a dole bludger if I formula feed or will I have a future prime minister if I only breast feed. There is alot more "choice" out there now for consumer products, and that coupled with the reality that Mum usually goes back to work at some stage and familes are further flung, we are raising our children without the help of family often.
I also think there are alot more "societal pressures" now, there seems to be alot of those school yard cliques within coffee groups and parenting groups etc,
While we have alot more convienience with things nowdays (and way too much choice) what it boils down to is that babies and childrearing haven't really changed that much in the last 50 years, they still wake during the night, poo explosively, cry for unknown reasons, but it seems today we are quick to label things a problem, and thus it becomes one. We forget that babies have always woken at night etc. We seem to be in a rush to move them onto the next stage - sleeping through the night, solids, walking and before we know it the baby years have sped past. I often lament that Mums seem to be in such a hurry to get things back to "normal" that they forget life is very different for them now.
Second, parents now get a bit of a reputation for being more overprotective of their kids - do you think that's fair? If so, what do you think might be causing it?
Yes I certainly think we are waaaaay to ott with the cotton wool. I think that its party "societal pressure" too, one or two of the "higher order clique" become the fun police and everyone else isn't that keen to "buck the trend" for fear of being labled a bad parent
I actually write a column about this same thing bi monthly for a newsletter in the hope that if one person raises their hand and says yep my kids ate twisties for breakfast last saturday and no one died and CYFS didn't come round, then other parents might feel a bit better about their parenting choices and lay off the cotton
wool a bit.
(BTW, I'm happy to quote people as their usernames, but if you're happy for your real details to be used, feel free to email me privately at sarah.barnett@listener.co.nz)
The Honest Un PC Parent of 2, usually stuck in the naughty corner! :P
I can speak to that last point, Sarah -- I'm just about to turn 32 and fertility has definitely been something on my mind lately, especially because I'm so aware of the issues (doing the job that I'm doing!). I don't feel financially or emotionally "ready" to have another child yet -- for me it's partly to do with pregnancy, which I don't cope well with and am not keen to relive -- but biologically I feel that I should get my A into G. And if I want to have more children, I'll need to do it relatively quickly, because the older I get, the more negative things can happen...
I think that women of our generation are having less babies, later in life, and that makes us more protective -- because generally, once a woman is on her second and subsequent children, she's a bit more relaxed and chilled out. We tend to focus all of our angst on the first one (the "practice" child) because we don't know what we're doing the first time around, but then as we gain more confidence and feel more empowered as mums, we relax a bit more and go with the flow, and stop hovering so much.
I also do think that we have too much information at our disposal in some cases -- when our children get sick, the first thing we do is goodle their symptoms, and then fill our minds with all sorts of scary possibilities. I remember calling my mother freaking out about some spots on my daughter's back, thinking they were measles (because I'd asked my friend Google what they could be), and they turned out to be bug bites...
Well I'm going to buck the trend then, I'm 36 and pregnant with my first child, my husband and I tried for 12 months to get this little bean, and that's perfectly normal for someone at my age.
I did feel pressure from a lot of different avenues regarding my age, however its my life and my body, and having children earlier to please other people was never an option.
It is now of course 36 years since my mother raised me, sadly she isn't around any more - and this is one of the sad side-effects of children older. I don't feel like an older mum, most days I still feel 25.
I think in some ways its more difficult being a parent now, as we have to make a lot more decisions as there is so much more choice. When I was born everyone was expected to do the same thing and so they got on and did it.
When I came across my old plunket book, I had to giggle at what was recommended in the 70's. Orange juice at 3 months of age for vitamin C, I was put on full fat cows milk at 6 months of age to help me feel full and settled.
Everything was about routine, no such thing as demand feeding back then.
I do think society in general is more protective, we've a larger population, more immigrants, cars on the road and other dangers - like kids having access to the internet etc that weren't around when I was younger.
However I live in the Manawatu and kids here still walk and ride their bikes to school every day, they hang out at the skate park till it gets dark, and its relatively safe.
We are however about to shift to Hobsonville and there is no way I'd let my child cross the busy Upper Harbour Drive.
re the age thing i dont like pregnancy either (besides my gorgeous boys):) but did have them close together(2 year exactly but had a mc when E was 10 months) so E could have a sibling and because my age was against me and I was worried about the risk factors..
I am certainly much more overprotective than my parents were.. especially with my first but am learning to relax and not be so much that way with number two:) I guess the over protectiveness is partly because of the way society unfortunately is nowadays and not as safe to say go out for hours on end exploring:(
I think parenting is hard in whatever generation but we have a lot more comforts(PPL , WFF, disposable nappies etc) to make it easier but also a lot more in the way of drugs etc available to kids.. I didnt feel any pressure to have children ..except that i put on myself due to being the only one who can have children in my family and my hubby wanted kids before he was 40 as well partly so he wouldn't be an old Dad and also cause his Dad died at 40.
I do also think that in my parents day there was more family support often... though perhaps less in the way of coffee groups etc but they learnt how to be a parent from their mother etc...
My Mum was saying they were taught to sleep us on our tummies and full fat milk at 7 months ...so in some ways it's good we have learnt more and smoking and drinking also happened much more during pregnancy ..so in some ways we have learnt a lot about pregnancy and fetal health since their generation.
I am glad that my son had food issues in this generation as they can be fixed and seen to quickly rather than ignored as was the case often in the last few generations..saving him a lot of discomfort etc..
I'm only 26, so can't answer the last question, although I was told to have kids sooner rather than later because I have endo. For the rest though...
First, how do you think parenting is different now than it was in our parents' day?
I don't think it's different so much, because the babies are still exactly the same - they do the same thing, at the same time. Like someone else said, it's more that we have more knowledge, and are quick to jump on problems because we have the knowledge to recognise them...whereas back then they were possibly thought of as just normal things. I know when my girls were diagnosed with reflux my mum made it clear she thought reflux didn't even exist, it was just something doctors made up when they didn't know what was wrong (my mum is in her mid 60s). We also got grief from DH's grandma about offering solids AFTER milk, because they never did that. MIL also can't understand why I don't hold the girls over a potty straight after a feed so that they get used to peeing in one. Possibly, we can be lazier and therefore look for the easier options, whereas back then they did it the tried and true method instead.
What are the new pressures?
I think we're more worried about keeping up with the Jones' - having new things, having enough toys, pretty or label clothes, formula feeding vs breast etc. There's also the financial aspect which comes to the fore, in order to be able to afford these things, it's common for both parents to need to work. Also there is pressure to own your own home, which can either delay children, or increase financial pressure.
Second, parents now get a bit of a reputation for being more overprotective of their kids - do you think that's fair? If so, what do you think might be causing it?
I think that sometimes we overprotect our kids...I know some parents who don't let their kids get dirty, or play in the dirt, or they are forever sanitising hands etc. Personally I'm not sure how they are supposed to build up an immune system without being exposed to any germs. That's just my opinion however.
Well ok, heres a wee bit from me.. there are many things that influence 'trends ' in child rearing, so it is just a grain of salt really
Im maybe an older Mum, being 31 when I had I had my first, and now am 33 and pregnant with my second
While I dont care much for people criticizing anyones views on whats best for their child, with on safe parameters of course, there are a few things that really get my goat, obviously things that I view as negatives
Firstly... people assume Im too young, and yes Im younger looking, but not young, and Im a hell of a lot older than what my mum and Nan were when they began having children.. so what these days is too young!
People often assume that because Im home during the day, Its not by choice, as in I cant get work
or its a lifestyle choice as in I dont want to work - I guess thats besides the 24/7 job I already have!
I even had an older lady , who would have been maybe 60ish ask if my daughter saw here dad much - I assume thats cause Im not wearing a wedding ring - we are one happy family, with no intentions of that changing
Its odd that In my opinion we should be supporting Mums or dads to be at home with a child for as long as possible, both financially and intellectually, yet I have made that choice and am the odd one out so to speak - the government needs to recognise the positive gains of 'parenting' children,and provide support - not just to those below certain income levels - why should married or qualified parents have to choose?
And most of all what I find annoying is that its often the blue rinse girls that look down their noses at me, when Im doing exactly what they did, without the ring, and older
I guess in the end your damned if you do and your damned if you dont- and there are so many different influences / pressures it hard to say which is one has the strongest influence
Well i thought so too caliaandjack - but then now I have come into contact with lots of woman who are either 5 years younger or older then me, where as I expected there would be loads more mums my age
Rasberryjam that is really well put. I find myself in a similar situation, but at the other end of the scale. I am 25 with 3 children, when people find that out they pull out the "oh, you arent old enough to have 3 children" routine. Im sorry, but I didnt realise I needed persmission to have babies?
I also very strongly agree that there are WAAAYYY too many resources available to our ever searching hands,and they all seem to contradict themselves. One of my favourite quotes from some of the mummy's here is "google is NOT your friend!!".
I find that the "routine" discussion is an interesting one. A lot of parenting seems to be a lot more structured? But that is just my opinion
Minik8e, you're bang on with the keeping up with the Jones'. A good example of that is the MB, Phil and Teds debate. I sometimes take a step back and look at my kids and think "my god, when did I become so obsessed in kids clothes!?!", my 6 year old has a wardrobe I would kill for!! sad huh!!!
rachndean - that's an interesting one, isn't it? One of the women here at work is pregnant at 24, and I admit my first reaction was that she's so young! I have to remind myself that, actually, 24 is grown up. I know she felt self-conscious about it, too - I think a lot of people reacted the same way.
The wrapping up in cotton wool question.. yup I totally think that kids are these days compared with when I was a kid (I'm almost 25). Our yard is "childproof" as in we have tall fences and gates so that we can shut everything and Daniel can't get out. We have a fish pond but it has netting overtop so he can't drown in it and he has free rome of our yard with and without me watching. I've had some people here who are mortified that I let him do that... yet at the same age when I was growing up my brother and i were allowed to rome around our yard, climb up trees, play in the garage full of tools and cars and get dirty as hell.
I see parents at the park and sometimes at the beach who get all concerned about their kids getting dirt on their clothes while I'm the one with the boy who runs straight into the water shoes, clothes n all and I think its great. I feel sorry for the kids who aren't allowed to get their precious expensive pumpkin patch clothing dirty.
Then if we eat lunch at the beach and his food gets a bit of sand on it and he doesn't care neither do I, but I've seen other mums at the beach totally freak out about that. I know as a kid I ate sand, dirt, mud, horse poo (yes I really did), worms, bark.. everything.
The age thing I can't really help with cause I'm nearly 25. I was married 1 week after my 21st bday. When I went horse trekking with a friend who is in his late 30s I got asked if I was his daughter wtf!! so I look young to some people obviously and I'm like rachndean with feeling of needing permission to want to do these things. I did not want to be an "older" mum, I wanted to be able to have the energy to enjoy my kids, enjoy grandkids and travel etc later in life when I'm likely gonna have more money much like my in laws have done and enjoy my own country in the mean time. But it seems this goes against the trend to lots of people these days. I dare anyone to express their negative opinions to me though
Anyway I'm at the other end - was 22 when I had my first, 25 with my second. Both were planned - I'd been married for nearly 2 years when I had my first, had travelled and got a degree and was working in my chosen career. In my coffee group (antenatal group) I am by far the youngest...... so I guess this shows that women ARE generally waiting longer before having kids, for whatever that reason is. I haven't felt like people look down on me cos I'm young (though I did have "but you're so young!" comments with my first), but I do wonder if that is cos I'm married and have had life experience etc.
How do you think parenting is different now than it was in our parents' day? What are the new pressures?
I think because we have soooooo much more information available to us, there is a lot more choices to make. Therefore we feel the pressure to make the RIGHT decisions.... and boy there is a lot of things to decide about! Nappies (cloth or disposable), sleeping (own bed/cot/parents bed/dummy/cuddly), childcare (home/kindy/daycare/playcentre/in home care/creche), discilpline (time out/gentle disipline/distracting/dare i say it smacking), carseats (extended rear facing / turn them around), solids (start at 4 months/wait as long as possible), medicine (doctor/natural/vaccinate/don't vaccinate).... and those are only a few of the things we have to decide! I think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to research and do the "right" thing for our child... whereas I think in our parents day, they wouldn't have had nearly as many choices. I think there's also pressure to give your kids opportunities...... so many 'activities' are out there, and I wonder if sometimes kids don't have enough time to just "be" and potter around home.
Second, parents now get a bit of a reputation for being more overprotective of their kids - do you think that's fair? If so, what do you think might be causing it?
I think yes some parents are overprotective - but of course not all. I think parents do get generalised these days and it's not fair. For example, since my boy was 20 months old I've let him play loosely supervised in our full fenced backyard.... complete with big hill of dirt he climbs, sticks he whacks, and trampoline he bounces on (with no nets, gasp). He'll happily potter around while I glance occassionally out the window. But then that's a sensible risk if you know what I mean - I know he might fall over and skin his knee, but he's not in huge danger. He's never fallen off the tramp because he knows it's high, and if he trips he comes inside for a quick kiss and then is off again. But when it comes to stuff in public where it's unpredictable, I'm totally different - always keeping an eye on him. Who knows if he decides to run off and get lost, or run in front of a car, or...... well, someone could take him - it is a risk. I think when he's older I will be selective about where he goes too... because of the dodgy people about I want to protect my boys from possibly being exposed to or abused or worse..... from not only adults, but kids their age or older. We do hear about crap that happens out there and I know I would never forgive myself if something happened to my kids because I let them go somewhere by themselves. I think perhaps that is why parents are more overprotective these days..... we hear all about the things that happen out there, and want to avoid it happening to our kids.
Well that was very rambly and off the top of my head!!
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