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Plushie
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Posted: 13 January 2011 at 10:42pm |
I don't understand your point, exactly. If you're implying (my assumption here) that you have had bad experiences with the media and your situation was made out to be something different then i'm sorry you had to go through that - however in this case i'm not sure what details the media might have excluded that would make this any better or more resonable.
Like i said, i am not against termination; i had one myself as a teenager. As i said above if she'd accidentally concieved twins and terminated it wouldnt raise an eyebrow for me. Actually, even if she'd gone through IVF only for her situation to change and then decided to terminate i wouldnt judge.
If her sole aim was to replace a lost daughter (which IMO isnt healthy and counselling should have been her first call, not replacement babies) she had a variety of options - IVF in a country where gender selection is allowed (i believe in America this is an option?) or adopted, or fostered.
The article doesnt state who paid and i am being a bit personal here, but a very close friend has just gotten a BFN from her final funded round of IVF and as they can't scrape up the money to pay for their own a child seems unlikely for them. If they concieved twins (only to abort based on gender) through public funded IVF....well, i can't help but think that money and treatment should have gone to someone like my friend - or any of the TTC ladies here.
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5th...and final??
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Joined: 18 May 2009
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Posted: 13 January 2011 at 11:01pm |
I have been quoted in the media in my line of work many times. Very rarely does the quote actually word for word, say what I said.
So i doubt that father said what they say he did, even if it is in "quote marks".
The article doesn't say they want a replacement daughter, it says they want another daughter.
Agreed, who pays for IVF is another contentious issue.
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peanut butter
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Posted: 14 January 2011 at 7:45am |
I would be suprised if they get permission to choose the sex. I am suprised they can in the US (well not really suprised). you cant have people choosing sex of their child. It would screw the world up.
I would also say that she has a "few issues" to sort out. I know before I TTC No 3 part of me was wanting a girl. I figured that wasnt enough of a reason to try for No3. It was only when I realised it was a 3rd child that I wanted that we decided to TTC. I would love a girl (for the experience and variety) but if a 3rd boy comes along thats great too.
Oh and busymum...I have been out of touch,...CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!! No 5! Wow...you will be busy!
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Bizzy
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Location: New Zealand
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Posted: 14 January 2011 at 8:30am |
bowie so you are against her aborting purely because of the sex issue? thats a bit double standard...its her choice but only if its for a reason you agree with?
there are so many facts we arent made aware of and we have seen it before on here where a story in the media has affected someone personally and the information they know as fact is simply not the same as reported by the media.
I am starting to feel sorry for the couple, i am sure they would be horrified if they knew they were being judged based on a single newpaper article full of misinformation and half truths. There are laws and rules in place that seem to have been ignored and this alone makes me suspicious of the story.
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Plushie
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Posted: 14 January 2011 at 8:45am |
Yeah, i guess i do sound a bit like that don't I? Good call.
So, to be fair, no, not against her aborting because of the sex. I'm not against abortions in any situation though some i find hard to fathom (ie. termination as birth control) but i wouldnt want the right to chose removed from us. I can't quite get my head around the 'its a boy - abort' mentalitly that is portrayed (key word; portrayed) and it makes me very sad.
However like i said way back on page one - what would their lives have been like if she'd been refused? Would they have been neglected/felt unloved for their gender? We can't say that if she'd been forced to carry to term if they would have ended up in a terrible situation. But then again they might not have.
Also a thought that came to mind a while back - if she is having the psychological problems that the article makes her out to be having would she have found other methods of termination that are not medical or safe but we all hear about and can be turned to in desperation? Then we would have the article "woman denied abortion and found dead after trying herself" and i would be sitting here writing a pro-choice debate instead.
Without all the assumption etc at the end of the day it is for me just really sad that little lives are ended due to sex, sadder that IVF time and assistance was 'wasted' on it (hoping that it wasnt public funded IVF!) and a reminder that designer babies are on the horizon.
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Bizzy
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Posted: 14 January 2011 at 8:48am |
this is interesting:
link
has more information about the same couple as well which makes it sound like they found out the sex earlier.
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Bizzy
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Posted: 14 January 2011 at 8:52am |
bowie wrote:
Without all the assumption etc at the end of the day it is for me just really sad that little lives are ended due to sex, sadder that IVF time and assistance was 'wasted' on it (hoping that it wasnt public funded IVF!) and a reminder that designer babies are on the horizon.
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thats what makes me sad too...
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Bizzy
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Posted: 14 January 2011 at 9:18am |
looks like they are going to to to thailand instead
link
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mummyofprinces
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Posted: 14 January 2011 at 5:57pm |
I feel sorry for them, how messed up must you be to do that.... so, so sad!
I wonder what will happen when they get their little girl and it doesnt fix things...
Such a sad thing for all involved!
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TheKelly
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Posted: 14 January 2011 at 7:40pm |
Kazper wrote:
busymum wrote:
IVF babies get a lot of monitoring so I imagine they would have checked at 12 weeks or something. Certainly by 16 they should have been able to tell. |
The only scan that clinics usually do is 8 weeks which is too early and also the 12 week which is common, but wouldn't show the sex yet either. So unless they were having them very regularly due to other issues, it would be in second trimester easily.
I remember being told that we still wouldn't be able to find out until the standard 20 week scan and I think sometimes you may be able to see at 18 weeks if a scan was booked then.
Either way, its terrible eh! |
We found out our baby was a girl at the 16 week scan, and 2 more scan since have shown it to be correct.
We had an emergency scan cos the MW couldn't hear babies heartbeat at my appointment and by the time we got to the scan I didn't care what my baby was,so long as it was ok ....so its possible they could have found out at 16 weeks, but more likely at 18
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Kazper
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Posted: 14 January 2011 at 7:44pm |
Oh that's cool Kelly. May be some sonographers just say 18 weeks then cause ours was a bit grouchy when we asked how soon we could find out at the 12 week one. She just snapped 18 weeks at us.
We got heaps of scans to. We had them about monthly so was no mistaking it was a girl by full term.
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TheKelly
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Posted: 14 January 2011 at 7:56pm |
I think we were just lucky to get like, THE most enthusiastic sonographer ever,seriously, the whole time he was like "and this is her spine, and this is her leg ,,,,isn't that incredible? and this is her ...."
I don't really have much to add to the original discussion except the whole thing saddens me and makes me sad for all those concerned and all those affected by reading it
And big hugs to you Kelzie Rose....and all the other brave women treading wearily but still with hope along this difficult TTC journey
Edited by TheKelly
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mummyofprinces
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Posted: 15 January 2011 at 8:01am |
dont forget you can find out the gender by amnio which is performed much earlier....
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freckle
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Posted: 15 January 2011 at 8:11am |
and CVS which can be done at about 10-11 weeks... I would assume they used one of these methods to determine sex rather than US which is less reliable.
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mum to 3 lovely girls :D
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Stephi
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Posted: 15 January 2011 at 1:10pm |
So good to see New Zealand women have their heads screwed on the right way!
I am on another forum (american) and the MAJORITY of them were like "good on her, I would probably have done the same thing".
This makes me sick to my stomach. I am against abortion (apart from medical reasons), and this just makes me feel justified in my views on it. How the hell could a person abort their two sons, just to have a girl? If they wanted a girl SO badly, they should have gone to america (like they are wanting to do now, if they dont win their case) and done the gender selection from the beginning. These people knew the risks (50/50) of having boys, and for some stupid reason, they chose that option instead of the one that would guarantee them a girl from the word go.
IMO this woman needs help, and shouldnt be able to partake in IVF until shes had the help she needs.
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TheKelly
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 12:56pm |
wow Stephi, that surprises me, I always got the impression that Americans were the majority, opposed to abortions?
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Kazper
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 11:11pm |
Awww Kelly its so the opposite. Have seen and heard things that go in America that are astounding. Its almost common practice for women to abort at nine months there or doctors just leave the baby to starve to death if the parents don't want them. Its pretty horrific.
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TheKelly
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Posted: 21 January 2011 at 11:21pm |
wow really ??I so did not know that! I always thought they were really opposed....mind you thats just from reading Yahoo comments ,man thats shocking , abortions at 9months? :-S
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Kazper
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Posted: 22 January 2011 at 10:51am |
Yeh the other forum in the news one with that dr being charged for murder. In that State it is illegal, but what he did to those babies is perfectly legal in a lot of American States.
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TheKelly
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Posted: 22 January 2011 at 10:25pm |
Murder is legal in some states there...thats disgusting !
God I hope he gets charged and sentenced to life
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