A new debate. Religion.

I have mentioned her before, but will again, my friend died 3 years ago of an undetected blood clot caused by her epidural, she was only 23, had been married 3 months and her little girl was only 3 weeks old.
It was a very very sh*tty thing to happen and I miss her everyday .....but I have never thought it was God's fault, or even satan's...I just think its one of those awful, unfair things that sometimes happens in the world for no rhyme or reason (and I don't believe everything happens for a reason , I don't find any reason in her dying) its just one of those things that happens that you can question and question, but it wont ever make sense.....

CJsays wrote: Lil red you said "brought up Catholic and my mum is very involved in the church but I stopped going as soon as I was allowed to and only go at Christmas. I simply don't believe in any of it and I can't make myself believe in it. I think faith is caused by something that is wired differently in your brain and not something that can be learnt." Not being totally against catholics, but my husband was brought up in the catholic church and hated it and had no faith (nor the rest of his siblings). When he met me and one day ventured along to my church (with no pressure from me at all) he said he could not believe how different it was. No rituals etc, and he said the leader fo the church seemed "real" and emotional about God etc, and he loved the sermons - instead of being repeated word for word from some book they talk about the history of the passage and how it relates to today and all that stuff. So from my husaband's perspective, other churches are very different and more interactive and "alive" in todays time than the catholic churches he has been in. Maybe this christmas you could try a different church and see what you think? I also think that faith comes at a time in your life when you are ready for it, it is not wiring as such, altho I do understand why you would say that, as it does make some kind of sense too! Some people you think would never have faith can have something happen and change and be a huge believer! But I do agree it is something that can't be learnt. I also think God can open people's eyes at the time that is right.

Im a freshly minted Catholic, as in I was confirmed yesterday.
I have been to many many different churches and your reasons for NOT liking the Catholic church are exactly my reasons for loving it. I REALLY dislike happy clappy churches, I feel uncomfortable and embarrassed, like its some kind of competition who can be the most "in the spirit". I don't think you need to be "out there" like that to be in a good place with The Lord. Just my opinion, though, people go where they feel most happy and in the zone and for me, its Mass, and I feel safe and happy knowing I can go anywhere anytime and Mass will be almost exactly the same. And I love the ritual and tradition, and I love that its not just one enigmatic preacher's version of the "good book" and how he translates it and his take onthe world today, but it is a ritual that is followed the world over regardless of one man's opinion.
I have an intense dislike of "enigmatic preachers" likes of Brian Tamiki, as I feel that is a sin in itself, they become like an idol themselves and people worship them and not God. Just my opinion though!

My thoughts are most likely coming from an infrquent visitor to those types of churches, so undeucated, just as people make huge uneducated guesses as to that Catholics believe and the rituals and stuff.

Ineresting debate, guys!

I'm happy to follow and beleive "blindly", after all, if I live my life in a good and happy manner just as I would regardless of religious beliefs, then I have nothing to lose, really, even if it all pans out to be soem kind of hoax.

I really feel like I have "come home" with my church. Its a wonderful place, filled with wonderful people (mostly, lol). I jumped into the community boots and all years ago when I enrolled my eldest at the parish pre school, and now he's at the school, and its just like one big happy supportive family.

No, I'd be interested to hear?!
I persoanlly don't think its that much differnt to the anglican church that I was brought up in, or other places I have worshiped - beliefs wise, but yeah, always keen to hear what others perceptions are.

I persoanlly like the old fashioned ritual.

A big one is people think we "worship" Mary like an idol....

We pray to the saints, or ask for them to hear our prayer and in particular Mary cos they have a more direct line to the Lord, Especially Mary!

The whole pergatory stuff is a bit of a grey area too, and something they aren't really big on now, either, so Father A told me...

Fattartsrock Yeah dep on the catholic church how much they push certain things (just like other churches with the whole water baptism thing, some churches are big on it some aren't, or some have gay ministers some don't, etc).
There is as you say the purgatory thing, which is not biblical.
The other book they added to the bible (where it says specifically in the bible not to add or take away from it).
Mary - it doesn't say anywhere in the bible to pray to Mary. Specifically it says there is 1 intercessor between God and man and that is Jesus. So we pray directly to Him!
Again the saints - my point above - at no point in the bible does it say to pray to the saints, they have no power to save.
Confession - again, does not say we need to do this in the bible. And the penance (hail marys etc) that is given in confession, Jesus paid for our sins for once and for all (past and present) so why would we need to do penance?
Communion - again, we go directly to Jesus with that, no need for a priest to do it for us.
Infant baptism - yes other churches baptise babies, but it is seen as a dedication by the parents and not as a "salvation badge", because no child can choose at the age of a baby what they want to believe. So yes as parents we can dedicate and commit as parents to bring our children up in the christian way, but we have to accept they will make their own choice when the time comes.
Sorry if that seemed abit abrupt, was trying to get it out as short as I can, I know there are some other "smaller" differences too but these are the ones that I know quite well.
Kellyfer I do agree with wot you said too re the whole church thing and they suit different people for sure! And I do think it is awesome that your church fattartsrock is one you feel at home in and has great people! And I agree with the whole "wouldn't say picked the right or wrong church" thing, altho my dad would say no catholic is going to heaven I think he thinks foremost because they worship idols, for me I don't think it is that black and white. It's not for us on earth to judge or say who will get into heaven or not, only God knows for sure, we just need to live by how we know God to be and how he commands us, and that takes time. I do think though that if people are genuinely seeking and wishing to follow God, the only way we really have to Him is the bible, and what I go by is if it says it in the bible we should be doing it, and if it doesn't say it, then it's not right. It takes alot of time and reading the bible and all that to get to that place though, and I must admit I have only been finding things out for myself instead of following dad's lead in the past few years. It can be hard to study the bible for specific things, let alone just get into the habit of reading it every day.

I like the ritual of the anglican church too, just like you like the catholic rituals fattartsrock. I also am not comfortable in the happy clappy churches and congratulaitons on your getting comfirmed fattartsrock

Yeah Anglican chruch is fairly traditional and had rituals etc, its roots are in the catholic church (Henry viii, anyone?) its definately "Catholic lite", lol. Again, though, I like the catholic church because the liturgy, the readings etc aren't the opinion or veiwpoint of the person taking todays session, rather the whole mass/liturgy and opinions come from the Vatican...Not that the priests don't have their own viewpoints etc, but you can talk to them privately...it's not their job to preach to you their take on stuff...Not that the anglican church is like that either, I just always felt some kind of pull towards catholicism.
Cjays lots of good points, great points in fact...and too many to comment on with my POV, however...but you do realise that the catholic church is constantly changing and modernising, eh? lol
My mother is still stuck in vatican one - her mother was left widowed with 9 children after my grandfather committed suicide and the church "cast" her out for his sin...
Mum went to a catholic school where the nuns tied her hand behind her back to force her to write with the right hand and caned my uncle daily (he still has scars) Mum was horrified when I said was sending my kids to a catholic school....felt better when I explained there were no nuns ha ha.
Nowadays things aren't like that at all. Luckily!!! I am married to a divorcee, my kids were both born out of wedlock and remain and will remain till they choose for themselves un baptised...and I don't believe any just or loving God would not take them in should the unthinkable happen...and neither does our priest...(although he dosen't know them that well, only their sweet little church faces, ha ha)
Reconciiation is what confession is now called and it is just that..a chance to reconcile your misgivings.misdeads/sins with someone (like an awesome couselling session) and I don't think they do penance any more...I never have, but have had many a reconciliation over the last few months, lol. I think those things are more old schools, however it might be different when Father sees the 70 year old ladies or something, or maybe thats soemthing that different with each priest?
And no, it dosesn't say to pray to Mary or to the saints, however like I said before, its "Pray for us" that we ask them...Mary, after all, has Gods ear I think, lol

Edited by fattartsrock